“Reddit cannot survive without its moderators. It cannot.” - The Verge

That’s a recent quote from Reddit’s VP of community, Laura Nestler. Here’s more of it: This week, Reddit has been telling protesting moderators that if they keep their communities private, the company will take action against them. Any actions could happen as soon as this afternoon.

NOT_RICK,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

“That’s why we’ve spent the past few weeks threatening and strong arming them. Now please, shut up and get back to work.”

CIWS-30,

Also: we're still not going to pay you, but treat you worse. And if you quit, and the people after you keep quitting... we're going to have to replace you with PAID moderators... and if you play your cards right and we forget who you are, you might be one of those paid mods, so uh... shut up and get back to work for free!

ColonelSanders,
ColonelSanders avatar

The sad thing is that the masses that are still on Reddit at this point dgaf and will likely stay on Reddit forever. There's a real problem of Apathy in today's culture when people are just jonesing for their fix of daily content/memes, or at the very least nothing that disrupts the status quo. They don't give a fuck about "ideals" or what corporations do or farm from them so long as their instant gratification and daily intake of said content remains unchanged.

BobQuasit,

Reddit will REALLY be good when those apathetic users are all that's left to produce content and moderate subs! /s

!deleted249545,

deleted_by_author

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  • ErrantTaco,

    There’s actually another group— people who just haven’t figured out where else to go. There are subreddits for neurodiverse folks, as an example, that are really active, and I’m trying to decide whether to post and say, “Hey, folks, here’s where to move this group to!”

    AnonymousLlama,
    AnonymousLlama avatar

    People just need to change their attitude for how they interact with Reddit now. Gone are the days of good faith and honest interaction. I'll happily lurk and absorb content and provide no interaction back, not wasting my time curating / generating content for them anymore.

    kindenough,
    kindenough avatar

    I deleted my account, have been on there for troubleshooting drivers and other pc related stuff last week I confess. The times I f5'd reddit out of boredome for the latest dank memes or drama has passed tho. I can't handle the attitude from the uberstaff.

    deo,

    I'll happily lurk and absorb content and provide no interaction back, not wasting my time curating / generating content for them anymore.

    Same here, on old.reddit only, with adblocker enabled of course. On my phone I will not go to reddit at all.

    Draconic_NEO,
    @Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world avatar

    I think you overestimate the willingness of people to stay in a Spam, porn, and bot infested hellhole (if you think it's bad now you haven't seen nothing yet), especially as public consciousness starts to realize that. There will be a point in the future where Reddit will be seen as about as respectable as an adult video site, there are people who would be willing to stay through that but there are plenty of people who wouldn't either.

    Another good thing to remember is that most of the people on Reddit are the kind of people who laugh and upvote stuff, they're not the kind of people who are going to be making high quality posts. So when the people making high quality content leave the only thing that will be left is the lowest common denominator. It doesn't really bode well for the continued survival of the platform, at least as a place that people are going to want to go.

    ColonelSanders,
    ColonelSanders avatar

    My hope is that you’re right, but my fear is that I am.

    astro_smurf,

    they love the spam and porn

    some_guy,

    After being a Lemmy lurker for a few weeks, I submitted a request for an account on an instance that manually approves accounts earlier this week. Just checked and confirmed that my account was approved. This was based on calls for engagement to help grow the community. While I’ve been here for a bit, here’s my first participation. Ayo!

    Omgarm,

    Good job on not only lurking!

    PointyDorito,
    @PointyDorito@lemmy.world avatar

    Been lurking too so I'll throw in this reply as my first participation too.

    WhoRoger,
    @WhoRoger@lemmy.world avatar

    Verge should give up on Reddit like we all did. It's a waste of energy.

    meldroc,

    With so many of the power-users and mods abandoning ship, we’d better start a death pool for old.reddit.com, since it’s mostly power-users that stay with old Reddit. How long until it gets Spez’d so desktop users have to suffer enshittification with the mobile app users?

    trouser_mouse,
    @trouser_mouse@lemmy.world avatar

    I completely understand Reddit wanting to be as profitable as possible, however it's the approach to the users, developers, and blatant lack of care, respect and transparency that got my back up - suspect a lot of people may be the same. Communities always move and change, no platform is too big to fail.

    roht,

    Not only this, but this has happened before. It was called Digg back in 2010.

    Landmammals,

    All they had to do was allow Reddit premium users to access the site using third-party apps.

    ATDA,

    I was waiting it out until I heard mods were being threatened. That’s the final call.

    I’m going to be replacing posts with links to my never used socials because who cares if I’m spamming at this point.

    ohlaph,

    I’m with you. I get needing to make money, but needing to go public and become just another cringe social media platform is just sad. RIP Reddit. Hello Lemmy.

    maple,

    Reddit can't run without its moderators and it can't monetize without data. I encourage everyone who's defected to Lemmy from Reddit to wipe their old Reddit account using Redact. I just wiped my old account of 15 years worth of comments and post history.

    capt_wolf,
    @capt_wolf@lemmy.world avatar

    I wiped my 10 year old account last night. Everything except my last post telling spez to fuck off and that he and his board have no soul or humanity.

    It was hard seeing it all go, but if life has taught me anything, it’s that all things are impermanent and we should always be prepared to let go.

    xT1TANx,

    There was a YouTube vid posted a few days ago showing that posts are being reinstated after deletion.

    Naia,

    As much as I would like to do this I have too many posts there have legitimately helped people who were struggling with things.

    I’ve had people respond to months old posts thanking me on several occasions for helping them. I can’t in good conscience remove thay just to spite reddit, and I do a lot of stuff out of spite.

    Pixelotes,

    I’m waiting for a couple of days until I’m sure my deleted comments stay deleted. After that, I’ll wipe my 6 years old account.

    Prior_Industry,

    Who is investing in Reddit at this point? I guess they can just dump their shares against etf buying.

    rockSlayer,

    Well, WSB is planning to short the stock as soon as the IPO opens. Technically that's investing

    Hackerman_uwu,

    Look, much like Kanye we love those guys but they’re jackasses.

    EchoVerse,

    WSB was never the same after the $GME debacle.

    Smurgin,

    Pretty much, between COVID and GME, the sub 10x’d its users within a year and became a pool of the same handful of low tier memes that are cycled through every week.

    Mr_Blott,

    Pretty sure that was also the catylst for the death of Reddit too. It became the new Facebook after everyone heard of it because of the news coverage

    CantankerousGay,

    You’re onto something here

    Scary4,

    It was just another wave in eternal september imo, a big one but just another bit of notoriety for the website

    PineapplePartisan,
    @PineapplePartisan@lemmy.world avatar

    Reddit is not public, so it’s just private investors at this point that funded series tranches. They, of course, are pushing to have Reddit get profitable and then IPO.

    I guess we will see what happens, but Spez may have totally messed-up their plans with the inept API pricing and the response to the concerns about it.

    It could have been totally averted if they just introduced a reasonable user fee and license that could be used in any third party app.

    meldroc,

    Spez could have even required 3pas to carry Reddit ads - a lot of us would have grumbled, but stayed.

    But Spez didn’t want that, did he? If I had to guess, I'd say Reddit's official app is even more rigged with tracking than Tik Tok. That's why it lags - it phones home every time you pause in your doom-scrolling, to log what stories you're interested in.

    skullrot,

    That’s the most bizarre thing to me. Without knowing Reddit’s financials, it seemed like everyone could have their cake and eat it too. We could get a UX catered to how we choose to interact with Reddit and Reddit could make money hand over fist. We all knew the totally free experience wouldn’t last. Reddit very easily could have been like “ok guys, party’s over. We need to force ads on 3rd party apps”. We’d bitch about it, but it’d ultimately be fine. This scorched earth approach to how they handled it is just so out of left field.

    Tgs91,

    You’re right. I highly recommend Duck Duck Go browser app on your phone. It has a beta feature that blocks all tracking requests from your apps, and you can go look at what apps are submitting the most requests. Someone took a lot at the official reddit app compared to 3rd party and it submits an absolutely absurd amount of tracking requests. Like multiple orders of magnitude more, and higher than any other social media app.

    time_lord,

    If it’s programmed right, there’s no amount of data collection that should cause lag. It’s just a poorly written app.

    Feirdro,

    That’s what gets me. It would have been so easy to have a sliding scale based on the gross size of the company using the data.

    But nope, spez wanted all the golden eggs right now.

    Secret300,

    I'll never understand the people who are hell bent on trying to get reddit back. No matter what they won't have a say in anything that happens, own anything, or even have a voice. I'm glad people are finally moving to an open source alternative.

    maple,

    Like others, I’m also here from Reddit Is Fun. I was a reddit user for over 16 years (with a 15 year old account). For over half of that time, RIF was my exclusive conduit to Reddit as the desktop site became increasingly unusable. Now that RIF is gone, I won’t be going back.

    marswarrior,
    @marswarrior@lemmy.world avatar

    I think only linux users moved over here... maybe

    Secret300,

    I know a good bit of them did a while back. I think it was in r/opensource or r/linux but a couple years ago they posted about lemmy and I checked it out but I didn't move over to lemmy. I love open source but it's hard to move over to another platform when it doesn't have a user base. Back then it didn't but now I'm all in

    moosh,

    I’m here from Apollo. Currently testing out Memmy, Thunder, and now wefwef. Tried Mlem and Liftoff too but I don’t like them as much.

    EyesEyesBaby,

    Windows user checks in. But I've got to admit, just as with Mastodon, the sign-up process (and finding communities across servers) might scare some people that are not as familiar with computers as most people that are on here now.

    luffyuk,

    Honestly, signing up was a horrible experience.

    sotolf,

    Really? I don’t know, I just went to a page and wrote in my data, just like registering on any other page.

    InundatedWithDragons,

    It took me about 12 attempts over a few weeks to sign up. It always got stuck at the “submit” and would just load endlessly, but never send the confirmation mail.

    Different computers and phones and browsers and happened across multiple servers. …I can totally see how that drives away a lot of people.

    ohlaph,

    undefined> drives

    That was my experience today. Finally got through, but it took several attempts.

    kjenney,

    I signed up yesterday. It was not bad at all. No blood oaths or anything.

    Gushers,

    It took me a few tries over multiple days to sign up successfully

    Corran1138,

    I had swear the First Ideal. The storm light is kinda fun though.

    bandit6789,

    Journey before destination, Radiant.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m using an iMac right now.

    marswarrior,
    @marswarrior@lemmy.world avatar

    You got a terminal, I know macs have access to unix tools. It’s proprietary but still cool in my opinion.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Yep, and I used UNIX back in the day, so I’m pretty comfortable around a terminal. I don’t use it too often, but it’s nice to have available when I need it.

    666happyfuntime,

    I’m here from reddit is fun , I’m on Android and going to try on my windows PC in a minute

    Thagthebarbarian,

    Technically Linux…

    Thagthebarbarian,

    Technically Linux…

    ABCDE,

    Invested time... And this place is pretty far behind a usable replacement in terms of content alone.

    rckclmbr,

    I was an early user of reddit, and it had a lot of the same problems this place had. There were no "smaller subreddits", everything was small. But the quality of content was good, so I stuck around. It really takes a lot of effort to build a community, it doesn't come for free. I hope you stick around and help 😀

    xT1TANx,

    Dude I have communities I still want to be a part of there. It’s not easy to just walk away. I have now but when the NFL season starts it’s going to be hard to not go back unless there is a good alt here.

    ohlaph,

    Long live OSS.

    GustavoM,
    @GustavoM@lemmy.world avatar

    It's time to pass the torch, Plebbit. Just let it go.

    just_change_it,

    Reddit is too big to fail, they have achieved critical mass. Keep in mind facebook is still around despite being a reviled company, and instagram certainly hasn't had a mass migration off of the platform either.

    At the end of the day Lemmy isn't a replacement to reddit yet. It depends entirely upon it getting traction which thus far still hasn't occurred - we are not at critical mass yet. I hope it happens but there are many reasons why this site could fail even after reddit's admin blunders. Too many people are apathetic to the changes and not all of them are lurkers who do not post or comment.

    Today you can't just stop using reddit either, especially for google searches. Too much content is ONLY on reddit. It's a huge problem. We really need a wikipedia style reddit where it's not for profit and still moderated for content.

    xSPYXEx,

    Digg still exists even if it's a shell of its former self. Tumbler imploded and moved to Twitter, which is trying its damnedest to destroy itself too. They don't disappear, they just slowly become irrelevant.

    Reddit will still exist, but the content will continue to dry out. Sanitized for advertising and low effort for consumption. The thousands of small self contained communities that really drove the site will slowly die off. Subs that relied on outside moderating tools to ensure quality content will give up and move on.

    As small hobby subs find new places to take residence I would absolutely believe reddit will become less relevant.

    poptix,

    I'm okay with lemmy getting just enough traction to bring in the best users without being "popular"

    whatsarefoogee,

    Too big to fail doesn't mean it's too big to decline.

    I don't think reddit is going anywhere as a company and a platform, for a while at least. But that doesn't mean it can't lose a good share of it's users to competitors.

    I don't think the comparison with Facebook is a valid one though. Primarily because Facebook is a "true" social media platform. You have your friends and family on it which creates a very strong network effect.

    Reddit on the other hand is primarily a content aggregation platform. I don't need to convince my friends and family to switch from it.

    Additionally, Facebook is a lot more successful than Reddit financially. They make disproportionately more money per user due to having very targeted advertising. They own other platforms like Instagram and whatsapp. Unlike reddit, Facebook doesn't need to concern itself with having financial troubles.

    A better comparison would be tumbler, which was quite big and while it still exists, it's a shell of its former self.

    Rand_alFlagg, (edited )

    lol nah Reddit can fail. Just like Tumblr, and Digg, and MySpace, and LiveJournal, and GeoCities, and the list goes on. Reddit relies on volunteer work to provide its content, and just like when Digg tried to do almost the same thing, the community will move on. It always does. It has since the 80s and will until the extinction of humanity or the collapse of civilization.

    Terces,

    Yes, reddit will always retain some user base and they might even continue to grow. But the quality will be worse. Just like Facebook and other social media platforms, there will be users that simply don’t care enough to look for alternatives. I really hope that it will be a downward spiral for them. Too many (contributing) core users leaving, moderation getting worse and spammers and karma farmers reducing the quality of posts to a point where it’s just too cumbersome to scroll through all the crap to find a worthy post. I think that reddit either reverses its decision or that it will slowly fade into meaninglessness…

    renrenPDX,

    This is also my take. Reddit today is very different from DIGG 10 years ago, in that for a majority of users, their experience of USING the site will not change. These users access the site normally, or even with an ad blocker, but that's about it. For them, nothing has changed.

    What's left is a vocal, but powerful minority. Reddit Enhancement Suite for desktop users won't notice a change at all, until Reddit decides to do otherwise. Same with old.reddit. 3rd Party app users are the only ones FORCED to use something different: Official app, Desktop, or leave/move to Lemmy/Kbin. Reddit will still keep going, but the overall quality and usefulness will decline. Spez is betting that this will be enough to survive, and he's probably right. Their valuation can tank all they want but it's still in the Billions from what I last saw.

    BURN,

    Facebook may not have failed, but it's a shell of the platform that it was. Twitter is on the way to that status, Tumblr did it to their users and it's happened time after time. The little bit I've browsed the front page of reddit in the last little bit there's been a noticeable drop in post and comment quality.

    I know there's a few reddit archive projects, and it may be worth looking into a project that could scrape the html and present the info without it being Reddit.

    just_change_it,

    You think facebook is dying? their monthly active users have grown year over year every year so far. It slowed down approaching 3 billion but still grows. https://www.statista.com/statistics/264810/number-of-monthly-active-facebook-users-worldwide/

    Twitter's user count by comparison is a joke, 368m in 2022, but as of current statistics they have only ever grown despite doom and gloom over the changes. I always hated twitter, but the facts are what they are. They do predict a decline of the platform but it's far from an abandonment. Since twitter is now private it's unlikely we'll get great data from them moving forward. https://www.statista.com/statistics/303681/twitter-users-worldwide/

    Reddit doesn't have equivalency statistics since it's always been private. Best I can find places it somewhere between 800m and 1.6 billion monthly active users. Way bigger than twitter and honestly given that lemmy has yet to break 0.01 billion MAU i'm not convinced lemmy will succeed or not. I'm obviously here because I want it to, i'm just not drinking anybody's koolaid because I wish things to be a certain way regardless of reality.

    I don't think reddit will go anywhere, i'm just not using it anymore.

    Mini_Moonpie, (edited )

    Facebook rebranded to Meta and burned $13 billion on the "metaverse" to stay relevant. So, Facebook doesn't seem to think that Facebook will be around forever. Reddit does have critical mass, which is an advantage for them. There's no denying that. But, it's their advantage to waste by being overly aggressive and greedy, which they seem to be happy to do.

    As for Google searches, it might be less that Reddit is so valuable for search and more that Google has become so bad at providing good search results that Reddit became the go between. There's a lot of very specific knowledge on Reddit, but there's also a lot of redirects from Reddit comments to outside sources that have the info that a Google search should be able to provide. I don't know if Google has the will to fix that problem though. If Reddit can "get back to normal" and continue being Google's sidekick, Google might be happy to return to the status quo. But, once a company like Reddit adopts the policy that "the beatings will continue until morale improves," it's hard to imagine how they can get back to "normal."

    InundatedWithDragons,

    At some point it'll be easier for Google to buy reddit for the content than to unfuck their own search engine. Bonus points because they can tell themselves they fixed it for good and keep making google search even shittier.

    Mini_Moonpie,

    I have wondered if some of the big players interested in AI might decide to buy or recreate (again) something like Reddit so that they just have the data and control it. Google owns Youtube, so they are already managing the liability that comes with moderating a social media platform.

    fluxion,

    Digg had critical mass. It went down in flames.

    It doesn't take bajillions of users to generate enough content to form a reasonable alternative.

    Niche subreddits will be hard to recreate though unfortunately, but plenty of time to grow. And long-term, federated seems like a good model so that once these communities are rebuilt they aren't at the mercy a company who's main concern is short-term profits.

    CantankerousGay,

    Federation makes so much sense for reddit style communities. I hope it's able to catch on

    theragu40,

    Digg had critical mass relative to other sites of that era, but that was a very different Internet. Digg was never even close to as huge or ubiquitous as reddit is now. I really think the two situations, while similar, really are not comparable.

    CantankerousGay,

    Federation makes so much sense for reddit style communities. I hope it’s able to catch on

    danhasnolife,

    This is the most level-headed take. Reddit is going to continue to slog along with or without my account, with or without Lemmy's 53k active users. Anyone who thinks this protest is going to sink them entirely is naive.

    However, they may stagger along as an enshittified website that has lost it's spirit and never meaningfully grows again. Reddit is still better than any other alternative at this point in time, but Reddit is not by my estimation going to improve again. It's all downhill. So I'm doing my part and trying to work to build community elsewhere.

    We don't need 50MM users to reach a mass where the content is fresh and engaging all the time. Probably a fraction of that would be. Lemmy's userbase is double Squabbles and there is already a noticeable difference in content.

    theragu40,

    Yep. I think people need to think about what "failure" means in this context. Reddit isn't going to go away, and honestly the "default" experience - what you see when you just visit the homepage - isn't likely to change much at all IMO.

    The thing is I haven't liked the default reddit experience for many years. The draw of reddit was that they could do all their crappy changes to the default-level site and it still left the niche discussion-based communities to their own devices.

    Now they've affected those communities, which is why I'm here. But I'm well aware that a great majority of reddit's userbase uses reddit to doomscroll through endless insipid bot-generated meme lists. None of that is going to change. People like me who care about the small places that will be impacted are in a very small minority compared to the overall userbase of reddit.

    So reddit will fail (or has failed) for my use case, certainly. But I'm under no illusion that it will cease to exist.

    setsneedtofeed,
    @setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world avatar

    I feel like I’m being repetitive, but yes your point that the Reddit popular/all front pages won’t be dramatically affected is spot on. Those are where a huge amount of passive users spend their time, and the posts there have been trash and reposts for years now.

    The quality content enjoyed by many people who jumped ship was never showing up on the front page anyway. I made numerous original content posts that gained a lot of traction relative to the niche subreddit it was in, but my 3K upvoted quality content was never going to compete for popular/all space with a 50k upvoted repost of a repost of TikTok video.

    I did notice, when I visited Reddit desktop today that r/popular has a lot of political posts, despite one of popular’s reasons for existing to be a non-political alternative to r/all. I wonder if that’s something that’s crept in over time and I never noticed, or if that’s the result of losing so many subreddits that politics had to backfill popular though.

    theragu40,

    I think being repetitive is ok, because I continue to see the sentiment out there that everyone who is upset about reddit is delusional and think reddit will be closed in a month, etc.

    The reality is more complicated. And I think a lot of people don’t get it because a real lot of people actually don’t ever see the great parts of reddit that we all loved.

    I like to get that message out there as much as possible because saying reddit is ruined for my usage isn’t the same as saying it is going to go under.

    Rand_alFlagg,

    It's like they forgot what happened to Digg. They have forgotten the face of their father.

    GeoGio7,

    Dark tower reference, nice

    FirmRip,

    They’re just looking for that sweet IPO cash grab.

    Unfortunately for Spez and the rest of Reddit, they’re too late to actually cash in on their 18 year-old startup.

    Philolurker,

    Makes me wonder if that’s what Digg was doing…

    Hazdaz,

    Honestly, fuck 'em.
    Reddit deserves to crash and burn in my opinion. Every social media platform eventually runs it's course and then is supplanted by something else. No idea if Lemmy is the platform that eventually rises from the ashes of Reddit, but everything from the way Reddit was run from a corporate level, down to the users was toxic as hell. It needs to go away.

    wtf_man,

    reddit was the same thing as twitter, just a woke censorship mob that deleted dissenting opinions or even insinuating a slightly different viewpoint.

    HikingVet,

    Define woke.

    wagemage,

    “Progressive things that scare me.” Is the usual definition in my head anyway.

    MachineTeaching,

    It's funny that this "slightly different viewpoint" when pressed for details basically always ends up being hardcore racism, homophobia or other great things.

    Canopyflyer,

    A lot of Mods might be looking at all the work they have put into their communities over the years and think "I can't leave all of this." Which at this point, given Reddit Corp's behavior, is a sunk cost fallacy.

    It's time to jump ship, or learn to live with the new reality. Which is really the same as the old reality, the thin veneer of civility has just been stripped away. This is Capitalism and it always turns out this way. Just look at how many products have been ruined, because someone, somewhere decided they needed more money. Anyone familiar with Hasbro's heavy handedness with Magic the Gathering and Dungeons and Dragons knows what I am talking about.

    NutWrench,
    @NutWrench@lemmy.world avatar

    Moderators need to understand that Reddit doesn't care if you've been in charge of your /sub for 10 years. They have, can and will tell you how to run it. There's nothing for you to "negotiate." As far as Reddit management is concerned, it's "my way or the highway."

    Part of ending a toxic relationship is figuring out that it's time to let go.

    Strangle,

    The mods need to understand that the admins see the mods just as the mods see the users.

    They can be gotten rid of on a whim and no one will care

    Rand_alFlagg, (edited )

    Well, we former Reddit mods don't need to understand anything in that regard. Fuck Reddit in its entirety. I'm not wasting time considering their point of view. I understand that they're pieces of shit. I did negotiate - they doubled down and so I carried through and walked the fuck away, revoked my registered copyrighted material and took the first steps to litigation when they reposted it. They've taken it back down after the DMCA was filed, we'll see if it goes back up.

    An ultimatum is a negotiation.

    insaneinthemembrane,

    Good work! Way to stand up for your principles!

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