strypey,
@strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz avatar

"I think if you go back to the 1980s or 90s you don't actually hear about militaries... talking about information as a 'space' that they need to dominate. It's much more considered a kind of tool, or... even a weapon, but not up there with air, sea, land and space itself as a theatre of war."

, 2023
https://your-undivided-attention.simplecast.com/episodes/how-will-ai-affect-the-2024-elections-with-renee-diresta-and-carl-miller-KW2qlTGM

strypey,
@strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz avatar

"My fear is Bad Actors will weaponise relationships, build new workflows... that will speak to people's swirling sense of loneliness. They'll use those friendships to recontextualise people's grievances, make them feel like they are part of a wider struggle that has something to do with their identity, and use that feeling of struggle to drag a lot of people into these parallel epistemic worlds."

, 2023

https://your-undivided-attention.simplecast.com/episodes/how-will-ai-affect-the-2024-elections-with-renee-diresta-and-carl-miller-KW2qlTGM

kcarruthers,
@kcarruthers@mastodon.social avatar

@strypey already happens, look at incels and qanon

strypey,
@strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz avatar

@kcarruthers
> already happens

Agreed, see the follow up post.

Also this is just a description of standard state-corporate PR. My fear is that the amplification of these practices using tools (eg troll armies made up of text-generation chat bots) will create an information equivalent of the Grey Goo scenario in nanotech. A total breakdown of our capacity for shared meaning-making.

kcarruthers,
@kcarruthers@mastodon.social avatar

@strypey yes

strypey,
@strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz avatar

That's your fear? That what manipulators on both sides of the Culture War have been doing, for at least a decade, will keep happening? If only that was all that was coming at us in the information warfare space.

futuresprog,
@futuresprog@mastodon.nzoss.nz avatar

Depends who does it. The morally bankrupt manipulators with lots of money to spend pushing their propaganda are the ones who should least be informing our opinions.

@strypey

strypey,
@strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz avatar

@futuresprog
> The morally bankrupt manipulators with lots of money to spend pushing their propaganda

Which is one of David Chapman's key points in Better Without AI, that the root problem here is not AI or any other information technology, but rather under-regulated pools of power.

strypey, (edited )
@strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz avatar

: If information is a theatre of war (like land, sea and air) then for-profit influencers are potentially in the mercenary business.

icedquinn,
@icedquinn@blob.cat avatar

@strypey they absolutely do consider information wars, it's just they did a better job keeping it secret back then.

strypey,
@strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz avatar

@icedquinn
> they absolutely do consider information wars, it's just they did a better job keeping it secret back then

OK, what makes you think that?

icedquinn,
@icedquinn@blob.cat avatar

@strypey propaganda has always gone hand in hand with wars. whenever locals argue against it--out come the sedition charges. we've had those laws going back to the start of the USA; they're pretty much always used to prevent people expressing anti-support for our forever wars.

the USSR relied on ongoing psy-ops against its own population on a full-time basis. at times Stalin was personally approving or rejecting media for publication to make sure it stayed in line with his opinions of society.

the USA banned psyops against its own population until Obama legalized it during his term--where its now directly legal for the CIA to propagandize, and has been caught in the process (ex. CISA, where the biden administration is more or less personally running Facebook through FBI intimidation.)

basically government has always been bullshitting everyone, but there was less overt proof and people were more apt to believe them.

strypey,
@strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz avatar

@icedquinn
> basically government has always been bullshitting everyone

  1. that's far too general a statement to be either true or false

  2. the quote I posted is about the way militaries think about information in warfare, not governments. Yes, they're both elements of the state, so there's overlap. But they're not the same thing

  3. all of your examples could be;

"... considered a kind of tool, or... even a weapon, but not up there with air, sea, land and space itself as a theatre of war."

icedquinn,
@icedquinn@blob.cat avatar

@strypey you skipped everything to the end before quoting, so i must have done a good enough job :neocat_mug__w_:

> its just a tool bro
the NSA and cyber command would disagree, but i've said all there is worth saying.

strypey,
@strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz avatar

@icedquinn
> its just a tool bro... cyber command would disagree

Which is the point. Go far enough back and air support was considered a tool of land or sea warfare. At some point, the military switched to seeing air space as it's own theatre of war, requiring it's own military force. That same switch has now taken place with information space (the term "cyberspace" applies but seems to have gone out of fashion).

This has practical implications, such as;

https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/111798388198523088

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