Meta will kill small instances! Please read. (kbin.social)

I just read this point in a comment and wanted to bring it to the spotlight.

Meta has practically unlimited resources. They will make access to the fediverse fast with their top tier servers.

As per my understanding this will make small instances less desirable to the common user. And the effects will be:

  1. Meta can and will unethically defedrate from instances which are a theat to them. Which the majority of the population won’t care about, again making the small instances obsolete.
  2. When majority of the content is on the Meta servers they can and will provide fast access to it and unethically slow down access to the content from outside instances. This will be noticeable but cannot be proved, and in the end the common users just won’t care. They will use Threads because its faster.

This is just what i could think of, there are many more ways to be evil. Meta has the best engineers in the world who will figure out more discrete and impactful ways to harm the small instances.

Privacy: I know they can scrape data from the fediverse right now. That’s not a problem. The problem comes when they launch their own Android / iOS app and collect data about my search and what kind of Camel milk I like.

My thoughts: I think building our own userbase is better than federating with an evil corp. with unlimited resources and talent which they will use to destroy the federation just to get a few users.

I hope this post reaches the instance admins. The Cons outweigh the Pros in this case.

We couldn’t get the people to use Signal. This is our chance to make a change.

ScaNtuRd,

I’m hoping that ALL admins across the Fediverse will defederate from Meta. At least we get to have our own separate platform then.

thablkafrodite,
thablkafrodite avatar

I feel like this will just hurt us more then help.

TaleOfSam,
TaleOfSam avatar

Meta willingly under-moderated across large swaths of east Asia and Africa, leading to unchecked rumors and tangible acts of genocide. Zuckerberg has compared himself to Augustus Caesar.

I think it’s acceptable to cut off a wildfire before it spreads.

masterspace,

Lemmy is run by a bunch of tankies and the entire fediverse is under-moderated.

Cutting off a ton of users and content from the fediverse is stupid and everyone in here just keeps coming up with vague generalities because they're scared of Meta rather than have actually thought through what will happen and be able to articulate any actual harms.

icydefiance,

People have articulated all kinds of actual harms, including two possibilities in the OP, but frankly they're irrelevant.

We know what Meta's goals are, and we know they have absolutely no moral standards whatsoever. Exactly how they try to accomplish those goals doesn't matter. We shouldn't give them the opportunity to try anything.

We should be scared of Meta, and we should keep them as far away as possible. Anything else is reckless and stupid at best.

masterspace,

People have articulated all kinds of actual harms, including two possibilities in the OP, but frankly they're irrelevant.

No, they didn't. The harm listed was that Meta will make a shinier platform that will syphon away users, that is happening regardless and is not a harm that is a result of federation, it's a harm that's a result of meta having more money to build a better platform.

We know what Meta's goals are, and we know they have absolutely no moral standards whatsoever. Exactly how they try to accomplish those goals doesn't matter. We shouldn't give them the opportunity to try anything.

There goal is to launch a twitter competitor with a lot of users and make money off advertising. Nothing about that conflicts with the fediverse.

Like I said, this thread is filled with a bunch of people shaking in their boots about the company who must not be named rather than actually providing sober rational assessment of what's likely to happen.

icydefiance,

that is happening regardless and is not a harm that is a result of federation

Yes, it is. Read this: https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html

There goal is to launch a twitter competitor with a lot of users and make money off advertising.

They can do that without integrating with the fediverse. The reason they're going to integrate with the fediverse is to embrace, extend, and extinguish.

masterspace,

Yeah, I've read that, and it's not an example of a corporation killing a decentralized network through federation, it's just a normal example of a corporation killing a decentralized network by having more money to make a better app.

XMPP did not die because Google used that protocol, it died because people preferred using Google Talk over any of the XMPP apps. That would be the case regardless of whether Google used XMPP or not.

jerdle_lemmy,

Yeah, you think they give a shit about the fediverse? They’re using ActivityPub because it’s easier for them. They’re not going to want to EEE us, because there’s not enough of us to matter to them.

icydefiance,

It's not easier for them, and once there's enough people to matter then it's too late to kill it. The fediverse is growing, and they want to stop that before the fediverse is big enough to matter.

awderon,

The reactions you are seeing are based off of Metas history. We will see how it works out.

flipht,

Real life is not speech and debate, and it isn't an ad hominem to look at Meta's past actions and to expect that they will continue in the same way.

We don't have to have a crystal ball and be able to detail exactly what will happen and when to know that this is bad news. Expecting random internet users to outthink a mega corp and send an accurate and verified copy of their plan is absurd, and it seems like a bad faith attempt at discussion.

sour,
sour avatar

why shouldn't people be scared of meta

skillissuer,

i’ll take those “tankies” over completely unaccountable thiel’s buddies any day. actual tankies seem to be contained to lemmygrad where they don’t bother anyone outside of their instance

Marxine,
@Marxine@lemmy.world avatar

“Boo hoo tankies bad, but big corpo run by billionaires who spread misinformation and intentionally act to topple legitimate governments in favor of their fascist agenda are akshually good”

Arguing with people like you (corporate shill) is a waste of time, so I’d rather have fun instead.

Smallletter,

Do people think socialists or communists are bothered by this term tankie? It’s like called a white person cracker. It’s not really the effect youre hoping for, I promise.

!deleted201250,

deleted_by_author

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  • masterspace,

    I'm not asking you to trust them, I'm asking how defederating accomplishes anything? They got more users than the entire fediverse in a single day. We are not hurting them by cutting them off, we are merely making the fediverse seem more like a barren hostile place for a bunch of weirdo nerds.

    snooggums,
    snooggums avatar

    The goal is not to hurt meta, but to keep meta from hurting the rest of the federated sites. Like not inviting a known their to the community barbecue because they are known to have stolen tons of food from other community meals. We aren't keeping them from creating their own dinner or anything by not federating, just keeping them away from ours.

    masterspace,

    Except in this analogy, Meta hasn't stolen food before. They run the largest bbq around, and have bought out previous corporate competitor bbqs, and now they're hosting a giant bbq one way or another, they're just suggesting you put a gate in the fence so that people can flow back and forth between the small community bbq and their large corporate one.

    Is that going to make you nervous since they have such a cool giant bbq that people are inevitably going to want to go there? Yeah, but again, that's the case regardless of whether or not the gate goes in.

    snooggums,
    snooggums avatar

    Shilling for Meta is a bad look.

    They steal people's data and don't follow data privacy laws. They draw people in with unethical business practices, not fair competition like in your example.

    People are not worried about people using Meta outside of the fediverse. In your analogy Meta is already easily accessible through the internet in general and people can feel free to use both without needing a special gate.

    masterspace,

    Shilling for Meta is a bad look.

    Does it look like I care whether or not I agree with the hive mind?

    They draw people in with unethical business practices, not fair competition like in your example.

    My example included them buying out their competition which is not fair, it's blatantly anti-competitive. Fairness has nothing to do with anything I wrote.

    People are not worried about people using Meta outside of the fediverse. In your analogy Meta is already easily accessible through the internet in general and people can feel free to use both without needing a special gate.

    And in my example the gate doesn't harm the fediverse at all, it just makes it more convenient for users of both bbqs, being my entire point. There is nothing to be lost by federating with Meta.

    Sabata11792,
    Sabata11792 avatar

    Meta is showing up to the neighborhood bbq to shoot the cook and buy the grill from the estate sale. There also going to call it supporting the grieving family.

    !deleted201250,

    deleted_by_author

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  • masterspace,

    Your argument entirely boils down to "domain blocking is still buggy", when Threads doesn't even support ActivityPub yet.

    Once it launches, just block their instance.

    !deleted201250,

    deleted_by_author

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  • masterspace,

    Defederating means not interacting with the crowd Meta brings in. I have a bunch of other reasons but that's my main one. And before you suggest blocking, you can't possibly expect me to block all 10M of their users and the domain block is bugged. I know because I tried.

    Your point here is that blocking all of meta's instance is too hard because instance blocking is buggy.

    Besides, this place doesn't look like much of a barren wasteland since we're interacting with a bunch of people right now. I don't mind interacting with only weirdo nerds if they're nicer people. Quantity doesn't mean quality after all.

    This is just refuting my characterization of this place as barren.

    For the people who want to interact with Threads because of family and friends, they should just make an account there. Just don't let Meta destroy this small part of the internet.

    This is saying nothing other than "Meta will destroy the fediverse", again, without articulating how that would be possible.

    !deleted201250,

    deleted_by_author

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  • masterspace,
    1. The regulatory angle makes the most sense given the scrutiny they're under from regulators, courts, the FTC consent orders, etc. Also entirely possible that the product manager building the project was able to pitch the fediverse because it was the hot trendy thing (NFTs, metaverse, ai, web 3, decentral etc.)

    2. Given their history of buying WhatsApp and Instagram? Those aren't examples of EEE those are examples of anti-competitive corporate buyouts that should be illegal but aren't. Facebook does not have a history of EEE, and continue to be a large open source contributor, maintaining multiple open source libraries, frameworks, and protocols.

    3. Because you can just block their instance.

    4. They're scraping and selling your data regardless, this doesn't change anything.

    5. Sounds like a lot more potential moderators.

    6. I dunno probably the same way that half of Reddit posts are Twitter links. It will be fine. You can stay talking to your nerdy friends in the nerdy communities.

    7. Threads came out of New Product Experimentation (NPE), Meta's (now defunct) experimentation division that produced tons of different experimental apps to see what would stick, or in this case, to have a card to play if a rival social media network were to suddenly implode for some reason. Was it developed in good faith in regards to Twitter or creating a healthy competitive business landscape? No. Was it developed in good faith in regards to the fediverse? Yeah, they're not gunning after the dozens of Mastodon users.

    8. Until someone can actually state how federation with Meta would harm the fediverse, I'm for it. That EEE blog post that everyone keeps circulating does not do that. Its a quite frankly dumb take from someone who loved a protocol so much they didn't realize that users didn't. XMPP never had that many users, Google Talk did. The lesson to learn from that story is not that Google killed XMPP it's that a protocol's openness does not matter compared to user experience. It's awesome if you can have both, but if push comes to shove, and the protocol can't keep up, then the better UX will always win out, even if it's closed.

    9. No, I wouldn't add them or interact with them.

    10. I trust that they will do what they say want to do, which is to try and get a lot of users and make money advertising to them.

    Now, I've answered 10 of your questions and I'm still waiting to hear what the problem with federating with them is that's not just someone blindly regurgitating that same blog post, or making vague accusations that they're so intrinsically evil we'll be cursed if we look at them too long.

    ScaNtuRd,

    I don’t see why this would hurt us. But even if it did, I would rather take the blow than associate with Big Tech again.

    Calcharger,
    Calcharger avatar

    Do you really want the Instagram crowd to interact with us...?

    masterspace,

    At least there would be people and content to interact with.

    VanillaGorilla,

    If I was interested in those people and their content I could go there. I'm here because I absolutely do not want to see any of it.

    masterspace,

    I assume you only subscribed to text based subreddits then? Never once clicked on an image or gif that came from IG / Tiktok /etc.?

    My god stop being such a gatekeeping judgemental douche. Tons of reddit content was on subs like r/aww and /r/animalsbeingderps that was exactly as trite as the stuff posted on IG, if it wasn't directly copied from it.

    Calcharger,
    Calcharger avatar

    I am on TikTok and was on Reddit. I like my FYP on TikTok. I go on Instagram to see what old friends are up to and the suggested content is awful and mean spirited. Same with Facebook. I don't want that crap here

    leraje,
    @leraje@lemmy.world avatar

    Based on your posts so far my friend, its becoming clearer why you think there’s no one to interact with.

    masterspace,

    Lol, ironically my comments in this thread going against the hive mind have gotten more interaction than any others

    Calcharger,
    Calcharger avatar

    I am finding plenty of content to interact with here. It just might not be my first choice, but I'm getting along fine. It's still early

    sour,
    sour avatar

    quality != quantity

    Saturdaycat,
    Saturdaycat avatar

    I've been on Instagram for 3 years trying to build up an art profile, sharing my artwork. I think it's not Us vs Them, all sorts of people are spread out everywhere online.

    I'm happy to be here on the fediverse with my fediverse accounts, not threads. I'm extremely despondent about threads existing.

    Calcharger,
    Calcharger avatar

    No reason to be despondent until they actually make the leap to the fediverse and we discuss what the plan is to federate. Threads will not automatically federated with everyone. We will have a long time to look at what threads is and what kind of content they will bring

    losttourist,
    losttourist avatar

    How is that any different from what we have now?

    Threads has launched, but has federation disabled. So right now Threads is a standalone system, and it and the Fediverse cannot intercommunicate.

    If Threads later adds in federation but all the of the Fediverse blocks them, we're in exactly the situation that exists right this minute. And that doesn't seem to be hurting the Fediverse at all.

    GregorGizeh,

    Growth at any cost is the mindset that not only ruins anything good for profit, it is also the exact issue we are facing now in real life with the right gaining traction in many liberal and multicultural democracies.

    Because everyone is being let in, without a second thought on if they even should be there, we now have massive social issues with not at all integrated subcultures in Europe that embrace values diametrically opposed to our tolerant and pluralist societies, in turn empowering the right to ruin any progress made in an effort to throw out the brown people again.

    The right question to ask is not “can we accept this new member to our society?”, the right question is “should we accept this new member into our society based on their beliefs and values, based on if they can contribute anything to the existing society?”

    And to return to the matter at hand, this is what the fediverse is supposed to be. A bunch of communities and little realms, each with their own rules and interests but united in their belief that self determination and democratic structures make for a better and more fair internet. And then we have the meta intruder we are about to welcome with open arms, without any rules or expectations of him to adopt our values and culture, so they bring their own, corporate, centralized culture and use their money to brute force that culture into every place of importance.

    It is not racist or intolerant of societies to expect newcomers to assimilate, and ignoring that fact brought us a re emerging right.

    And it is not fearmongering or small minded to be extremely sceptical of Facebook trying to establish themselves in the fediverse, they are literally the OG data and privacy violating corporation, they invented echo chambers and connecting extremists. There is zero value to the fediverse in welcoming meta. The only one who wins if that happens is meta.

    teft,
    @teft@lemmy.world avatar

    Well said.

    Nobody,

    Exactly. Facebook is a known bad actor. There is absolutely no reason to believe their intentions are anything but evil. Pretending Threads is just another instance is both naive and dangerous. It is a cancer. If allowed to federate, it will metastacize.

    masterspace,

    Facebook is not evil, advertising is.

    The people at Facebook aren't sitting there plotting to make the world worse, they're just sitting there figuring out how to make the numbers go up and since they're an advertising driven business, that means engagement metrics, which leads to the vast majority of their resultant evil. The advertising / engagement driven business model is what is actually evil and what could actually be addressed by legislators.

    Xeelee,
    Xeelee avatar

    How exactly will it hurt us to not be usurped by an evil megacorp?

    masterspace,

    How will not federating with them prevent that?

    Xeelee,
    Xeelee avatar

    If we federate with Meta, we will be immediately drowned out by the huge user numbers of the Meta properties. They already have more users on day one than the entire fediverse.

    masterspace,

    I mean, if they actually subscribe to threads and discussions across instances, and isn't that kind of the point of a social network? For users to use it? Also odd that half the arguments against it are that it will kill the fediverse and half of the arguments are that it will provide too many users to the fediverse.

    angrymouse,

    I feel different

    Anomander,
    Anomander avatar

    I don't think so; it won't hurt 'us' anymore than we were hurt yesterday, when Threads hadn't launched yet.

    amiuhle,

    They shouldn’t just defederate from Meta, they should defederate from any other instances that federate with Meta. Like a firewall against late stage capitalism

    MarioBarisa,
    @MarioBarisa@vlemmy.net avatar

    But that is a double-edged sword. What if, for example, mastodon.social doesn’t defederate with Meta, but you defederate mastodon.social? Now you’ve just cut yourself off from a huge portion of the fediverse. Admins should defederate from Meta if their community wants to do that, but defederating from other instances that didn’t do that is going a bit too far, in my opinion.

    ram,
    @ram@lemmy.ramram.ink avatar

    I’ve already blocked mastodon.social.

    MarioBarisa,
    @MarioBarisa@vlemmy.net avatar

    Why?

    ram,
    @ram@lemmy.ramram.ink avatar

    Because the size of it, the sheer centralization around it, it creeps me out.

    RightHandOfIkaros,

    A small price to pay for salvation from Meta.

    Elkaki123,

    Why? If you have blocked meta shouldn’t you already be exempt from seeing comments and posts by their users on other instances? Why is this punitive approach needed

    Edit: (Alongside downvoting, an explanation might be better suited to change people’s minds, I just eant to know the advantage of this approach since you are excluding yourself from many users and you would have already blocked meta in this scenario)

    amiuhle,

    You’d see comments and posts from their users on other instances that don’t block Meta.

    It’s unclear how many users you would actually exclude, I think a lot of users who are on the fediverse right now don’t want to have anything to do with Meta.

    As the fediverse grows, there will be different bubbles with not much interaction between those, mainly because some instances won’t be moderated while others will try to create discrimination free environments.

    Elkaki123,

    Just so I understand, blocking an instance:

    Does:

    • block people from that instance from interactinh with yours
    • blocks people from your own indtance being able to search theirs
    • blocks communities from that instance to appear on /all

    It doesn’t:

    • Block comments if done on non blockef instance
    • Block posts if done on non blocked instance

    Is that right? I was under the impression that defederating would block them completely, as that is how it worked over at mastodon, if it doesn’t that seems like a serious oversight.

    Spzi,

    If you have blocked meta shouldn’t you already be exempt from seeing comments and posts by their users on other instances?

    Yes, at least that’s how it is explained in How the beehaw defederation affects us, Back then, beehaw.org defederated from lemmy.world.

    Why do I see posts/comments from beehaw users on communities outside lemmy.world and beehaw.org?

    That’s because the “true” version of those posts is outside beehaw. So we get updates from those posts. And lemmy.world didn’t defederate beehaw, so posts/comments from beehaw users can still come to versions hosted on lemmy.world.

    The reverse is not true. Because beehaw defederate lemmy.world, any post/comment from a lemmy.world users will NOT be sent to the beehaw version of the post.

    Third instance communities

    Finally, we have the example of communities that are on instances that have not been defederated by beehaw.org.

    We can see all three of these versions look pretty similar. That’s because for the most part they are. We are identical with lemmy.ml, as lemmy.ml hosts the “true” version, and we get all updates from the “true” version. Beehaw.org will not get posts/comments from us, so beehaw actually doesn’t have the most “true” version of this community.

    Translated into the current context:

    • beehaw.org = your instance, which defederates from Threads
    • lemmy.world = Threads (sorry folks, just to eplain the mechanics)
    • lemmy.ml = another instance, which is federated with both, your instance and Threads

    Conclusions:

    • You wont see posts or commens from Threads users in that remote community. You also won’t see reactions to those activities from anyone, anywhere. It’s as if comment chains started by Threads users don’t exist.
    • Threads will not see posts and comments from you, even if done in communities from instances which are federated with Threads.

    Or what do you think, @amiuhle?

    jocanib,

    That will just drive many Fedi-users to Meta.

    Different instances will make different decisions and users will go to the instances that suit their preferences. That’a how it is supposed to work and the only way it hurts the Fediverse is if we get flooded with threads complaining that other people have different preference, dammit.

    gillrmn,
    gillrmn avatar

    People forget. They go for convenience. That is how we ended up in our present state. Facebook led efforts against net neutrality too in some countries. But how many know/remember that? Amongst all other things they did.

    PostmodernPythia,

    People go where the people they care about are. Path dependency is king.

    beefbaby182,
    @beefbaby182@mastodon.social avatar

    @peppy

    We have to stick to our guns and keep supporting the small instances.

    Admins needs to strike first and defederate from Meta before they do.

    Double_A,
    @Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    What good does that do the small instances? And how does that harm Meta?

    All that happens is:

    • The small instances won’t get the extra activity that Meta users might bring
    • Meta will not get the small amount of existing content on those small instances

    That’s more a loss for us.

    trambe,
    @trambe@lemmy.world avatar

    Ya pretty much double-edge sword

    On one hand, Instagram users can bring a ton of content, which “should” be good for the overall website

    On the other, it’s Meta lol

    snooggums,
    snooggums avatar

    If I wanted all of the Instagram content I would be on Instagram. I don't want all of that content cluttering up another space and overwhelming another space.

    fuzzzerd,

    The difference is here you can manage your own feed and pick and choose. Many folks don't want metas apps on their device but wouldn't mind some of the content. Folks that don't want it don't have to sub but those that do can benefit second hand.

    spaduf,
    @spaduf@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Nobody wants Meta’s manipulated content. Let’s not forget why we call them Meta.

    alertsleeper,

    I don’t want Instagram content here! If I wanted Instagram-TikTok-type content I’d be there not here. I hope that crap stays away.

    And yes, it’s Meta lol

    masterspace,

    How about you do that once Meta does anything other than run their own instance and help to popularize the concept of the fediverse?

    FinallyDebunked,
    @FinallyDebunked@slrpnk.net avatar

    those people who wouldn’t see any alternatives to Meta’s instance wouldn’t join Fediverse otherwise, no skin off your back

    Double_A,
    @Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    I really don’t understand this logic… There is literally absolute no advantage by not federating with Meta.

    Why would users prefer the free Fediverse MORE if it’s not federated with the “big and good” Metaverse? If anything it just drives them away into Metas arms, because the non-Meta instances are small and all the stuff is on Meta anyway.

    Defederating is just the worst case result, but instantly from the beginning… How does that do any good???

    thablkafrodite,
    thablkafrodite avatar

    thats what ive been saying, atleast use em for a while to get some of the user base to switch over.

    peppy,
    Double_A,
    @Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    Both those things literally happen with 100% certainty and instantly when you defederate…

    Meta is not going to go away or fail somehow just because everyone defederates from them!

    arquebus_x,

    Most people in this thread have a vastly overestimated opinion of how large the fediverse is, how relevant it is to social media overall, and how much any other social media company actually cares about what's going on here. If every server defederates from Meta, Meta will just shrug and go on with its day, and continue siphoning users off anyway. Probably even faster than before, because there will be no way for fediverse users to see the Threads stuff they want to see. They'll have to explicitly re-home over there. And what are the chances they'll stick around on the fediverse after that?

    Double_A,
    @Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    Exactly!

    snooggums,
    snooggums avatar

    If people want both things they can easily access both things without needing them to be connected.

    Kolanaki,

    If they defederate from other instances, they just means Threads users won’t see those instances. Those instances will still see Threads content, if they want. The content is also shared across instances this way, so their servers largely don’t matter. Whenever Lemmy.World or Yiffit.net is down or having problems, I just bop over to Kbin and it’s like those other two instances never actually dropped out since I can still see and interact with their posts.

    I don’t see how in any way shape or form Threads can or will fuck up the entire fediverse when even if they have a majority of the users, their content gets spread around the whole network and doesn’t stay on shit they control.

    And if you’re worried about their app collecting data: then don’t fucking use it. Unless you think their app, on someone else’s phone, will collect YOUR data somehow, this is a completely bullshit argument.

    Gerula,

    Meta or any other corporation with interest in social media sphere (to be read: wanting to make profit on the back of the users) will, sooner or later, kill the fediverse if allowed to enter.

    Why?

    Simple because the reason for a corporation to exist is to make profit and that profit has to grow each year - so there is all the incentive in the world to milk everything from the user until they can then move on to the next “thing”.

    jyoskykid,

    Well if that’s the case, Fediverse was dead on arrival. But that is not the case. If you use a close sourced client and sign up to a server with bad practices, you cannot use that as an example for the whole Fediverse.

    Gerula,

    Well companies killing descentralised networks it’s not something new. Please see below an example:

    https://lemmy.world/post/571039

    jyoskykid,

    I understand that’s possible, however it is not possible for a company to take away users who care about ethics from the fediverse. And only those people matter, as we are not going for profit. Others can join in if they understand the need to join in.

    trymeout,

    Could Threads essentially cause a kinda DDOS attack onto other instances or bloating other instances with data?

    AeroBlue,

    They could, but why would they need to? They are so much bigger they work will be done for them without having to do anything

    ReveredOxygen,
    @ReveredOxygen@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Luckily, they can’t force federated access to be slow. Once you federate with them, their content is copied to your instance. It’s not necessary for every fediverse user to contact Threads, it’ll just be served from each user’s home instance

    PRUSSIA_x86,

    Yet

    ReveredOxygen,
    @ReveredOxygen@sh.itjust.works avatar

    There’s no yet about it. The architecture of how federation works makes it impossible. They can potentially make images load slow, but for the rest of the content it is fundamentally impossible

    Feweroptions,

    So far.

    alvvayson,

    That’s a bit naive.

    They can introduce latency, or server errors.

    But more importantly, they can definitely

    Gazumbo,

    Is there a list of instances that have defederated (or announced they will) from Threads?

    peppy,
    Gazumbo,

    Thank you!

    InternetTubes,

    I really need to get familiar with how blocked content is handled. If this is supposed to be federated-as-in-email, users need to get messages when their content is blocked or denied from a server. If you allow a submission to act as if it has been accepted when it really hasn’t, not only is it deceitful but it contributes to the problem. What will win out is the service that ends up blocking social content while blocking actual toxicity the best.

    howler,

    I think meta will dominate the space that federates with it. Hopefully none of my instances will do that… And I will be unaffected.

    anthoniix,

    We have to have to remember microblogging is not the only thing that exists in the fediverse. Having access to threads from lemmy will pretty much have no impact.

    Mon0,

    I rly don‘t see it that way. The main reason they went for ActivityPub was to fuck Twitter. They just want to bind users long term to Threads and the combination WordPress, thumbler and meta is a very strong argument. I don‘t think they care so much about the data of the small userbase. The care about potential ways to monetise NSFW content without alarming the advertisers. And they care about AP because that can make them even bigger then they are now.

    notavote,

    I also think they don’t care about us, I doubt they even know we exist.

    That doesn’t change that they would destroy us unintentionally. Like Vogons.

    vera,

    The thing about having advertiser friendly nsfw content is actually really insightful

    Lenins2ndCat,
    @Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world avatar

    I think the issue being missed here is that Meta will ultimately aim to suck all users into themselves, and then once they feel they’ve done enough of that, they will go completely closed, even potentially forking the protocol itself. If any legal attempt to stop this is made they will bog it down with hordes of lawyers for decades.

    Their goal is not to help fediverse, it is recognising fediverse to be a threat and aiming to absorb it. Literally no different to how reddit slowly absorbed all internet forums into itself, killing the distributed internet.

    Fediverse is attempting to bring back that distributed internet and they’re trying to find ways to kill it. All corporations seek monopoly, it’s how capitalism works.

    bandario,
    @bandario@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Spot on. Anyone cooperating with them is a fool.

    Sigil_Hunter,
    @Sigil_Hunter@lemmy.world avatar

    Well on the bright side, at least the fediverse is seen as a genuine threat to current social media. Hopefully it will stay that way.

    0x520,
    @0x520@slrpnk.net avatar

    I am not worried about this. I think threads is going to end up like all the fascist instances. Perhaps they will have more users… Good for them. But the rest of us will defederate and they will become an isolated instance. Which begs the question, why use activity pub at all? I suppose maybe its so they can run multiple servers themselves and piggy back on the infrastructure that was laid down for free. As long as most of us defederate its not going to change much. You could get about as much data scraping timelines now as they could siphon up with federating. So small instances will continue to federate with each other and that will end up being a smaller amount of the people using the fediverse. The only way this matters is if we obsess about numbers. But honestly most of us can’t afford to run a big instance anyway, so obsessing about unattainable numbers is pointless. It doesn’t change the economics at all, it doesn’t change the fact that small instances will federate with each other and not stuff we don’t like. It may change the privacy stuff, which is something we can fix with some vigilance.

    jerkface,
    @jerkface@lemmy.ca avatar

    They are selling personalized domains, on ActivityPub every domain looks like a different instance. I don’t know that we have the ability to block every single one of the vanity domains they will probably sell for less than a twitter checkmark.

    0x520,
    @0x520@slrpnk.net avatar

    I think this is a good use case for creating white lists for federation as opposed to black listing the blocked ones and I figured one day it might come to that. We’ll have to put together some registry where new strains nstancea can sign up to be included. I know that sounds antithetical to federation, but there are solutions to the problems threads is creating.

    notavote,

    Maybe they want to use Activity Pub so that they can influence further development of it. I don’t know procedure how w3c is makeing decisions and updates to it, but I doubt someone that is not using it can have influence.

    0x520,
    @0x520@slrpnk.net avatar

    It could easily be forked if they start fucking around, but that is a real danger.

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