gravitas_deficiency,

Ok. But first you have to make better games.

You can’t argue me into believing the game is fun when it’s just… overall not that fun compared to other Bethesda efforts.

To be clear, it’s far from an outright “bad” game, but I’m still frustrated that I spent $70 on the fucking thing. If you charge that much, it’s completely reasonable for me to have high expectations for your game.

BaronVonBort,

I enjoyed it but I also know that it wasn’t “great”. But I’ll admit that I got it on game pass and I’m a BES nerd, so that probably elevates it more. Had I paid full price my attitude would probably be very different.

gravitas_deficiency,

Precisely. If I had paid less for it, I’d be less annoyed.

Summzashi,

it’s completely reasonable for me to have high expectations for your game.

Lol

sugar_in_your_tea,

And that’s why I never buy on release. Studios have consistently rewarded waiting for months to a year since you’ll pay a lower price for a better product.

The only reasons I’d buy at launch are:

  • I’m a game reviewer and somehow didn’t get a free copy
  • I’m a streamer, so that’s the cost of doing business
  • it’s an MP game and I can’t convince my friends to play something else

I play almost exclusively SP games, I don’t stream, and I am not a reviewer, so it’s in my interest to wait several months for patches and sale prices.

amio,

These guys are getting harder and harder to take seriously. As disappointing as the game itself is, what the fuck is this? Defensively and passive-aggressively trying to argue with reviewers? Long ramblings on how unfair it is that one of the world's most significant game studios, freshly taken over by enormous capital... gets a little criticism for the flaws it its products? Do you need to be an expert Twinkie mass manufacturing engineer, really, if a new product is, let's say, a tenth of the size and tastes of sawdust?

If they're gonna insinuate it's not the obvious reasons, maybe they should've served up some less obvious reasons - I'm sure they would've been convincing.

Fades,

harder and harder to take seriously

How many times does Bethesda have to shit in your mouth to realize they themselves are shit? Fallout 4 was a downgrade from NV, then fallout 76, rereleasing the same game over and over again, and now starfield.

We should be way passed “hard to take them seriously”

sugar_in_your_tea,

I bailed after Skyrim. I loved the immersiveness and scale of their previous games, but Skyrim didn’t have that. It was a relatively small world, the storyline was barely even there, and the side content was a lot more limited vs other games. It looked great and had your typical gameplay improvements, but it was just a massive downgrade in terms of overall experience.

I wanted Morrowind in space, and I got stripped-down Skyrim in space, which was already a stripped down experience. Either make a great dup (like Oblivion) or make something completely new and interesting. They went with mediocre dup in a different setting.

HarkMahlberg,
HarkMahlberg avatar

Defensively and passive-aggressively trying to argue with reviewers?

Big "Baldur's Gate 3 is an anomaly" energy.

sugar_in_your_tea,

Yup, it is an anomaly in that it feels like the quality I used to expect 20 years ago when devs couldn’t just patch flaws after launch and had to actually QA their games before going gold. They rely so much on after launch patches that games often aren’t finished until a year after release.

pory,
@pory@lemmy.world avatar

BG3 is an excellent game, but saying it’s unlike the rest of games because it “does its QA before launch” is very silly. Look at the 100GB of huge patches the game’s received, reading the pages and pages of patch notes for the bug fixes and also the basic RPG features added after launch like the ability to change your character’s appearance.

BG3 had more bugfixes and hotfixes than Starfield did by a long shot, the difference between the two is not the absence of bugs. It’s that BG3 under the bugs was a phenomenally VA’d/Mocapped game with a great story line, memorable characters, meaningful choices, and combat that doesn’t become a rote chore or a numbers go up game with randomized loot.

sugar_in_your_tea,

BG3 was a complete, enjoyable experience all the way through at launch. There were a lot of patches, but those weren’t as necessary as other games, like Cyberpunk 2077 and Fallout: New Vegas. For example, character customization is nice to have, but lots of games don’t bother.

Starfield on the other hand, was relatively bug free at launch, but it didn’t have a good gameplay loop. Outposts were repetitive, gunplay and weapon variety wasn’t particularly interesting, and cities weren’t very plentiful or interesting (Morrowind was way better in all three, and the game is ~20 years old).

Yeah, BG3 wasn’t as solid as launches before OTA updates were a thing, just it felt a lot more like that era than most of the AAA game launches in recent memory.

ICastFist,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

“People have unrealistic expectations for AAA games! It’s impossible to make them as good as people expect them to be!”

I remember lots of big studios saying that shit after Baldur’s Gate 3 officially released. The work of a comparatively small studio with a Skyrim budget (100 million USD) did what many bigger budgets failed to do. How was that possible? Clearly, it’s the fault of gamers for expecting too much!

Side note: Witcher 3’s budget was around 34 million USD, with less than 13m for development proper, which is another good example of a game that even at release was already looking and playing great.

sugar_in_your_tea,

And those examples are not hard to come up with either. For example:

  • any Nintendo game
  • games with a passionate designer - "Nier: Automata* and Death Stranding come to mind
  • refined, broad market appeal sequels to popular niche games - as Elden Ring is to Dark Souls

Starfield was a mediocre rehash of their Elder Scrolls formula, but without the interesting variation that Elder Scrolls games have. And performance sucks, so you’re paying a penalty for an average gameplay experience.

didnt_readit,

Have you seen the replies they’re posting to Steam reviews? Fucking hilarious(ly sad) LOL

amio,

Sad is the word. I think "um ackchyually the boredom is on purpose" was my favorite in the bunch.

didnt_readit,

WeRE thE MoOn LaNDinGs BoRInG??? 😂😂

I lost it when they made that comparison. Also, ya know they actually had a rover to drive around on the moon haha

Krauerking,

Like with pretty much all things for the last decade we hit stagnation and consistent money making with low effort.

So clearly now everyone else is wrong or why are they making so much money? If they throw out garbage that people pay for and then complain about them why should they take the criticism seriously… I’m fact it’s just bad people trying to ruin them because they are perfect and right.

Everyone is right all the time and everything is gold no matter how lazy. No one wants the discussion they want to be told they are right and then to move on to the next thing without stopping or asking questions.

If we can’t impact their bottom lines then nothing will ever change until it collapses.

breadsmasher,
@breadsmasher@lemmy.world avatar

Series of concessions and choices

Thats just life. But you made a number of poor concessions

Asafum,

Read: console support and changes to modding so they could take more money for the lesser product they provided… The need to be on shitty older consoles kills games ambition and scope. I hate it so much.

oxideseven,

I had fun with it. I put in about a hundred hours.

It’s fine. It’s not complete crap and had tons of potential. It missed the mark on a few things for sure.

These constant aggressive comments from the Dev team though… That I’m not a fan of.

Asafum,

My biggest complaint is how they absolutely murdered the modding scene for the sake of greed… They wanted their cut of a thing they had NO input in so they forced their way in to have input and in the process ruined modding for those that were good at it…

Seeing how amazing Skyrim was with mods gave me so much hope for what this game could become and now I’m just sickened by what they did… So much potential gone. Now you’ll have to pick between what 4 mods you want as you’ll have to spend $5+ for each one… Yeah I’m not spending $100+ just to make your game fun for you while also paying you…

AngryMob,

Free mods arent gonna disappear no matter what bethesda does on their end. Just ignore the paid shit just like we always have

Asafum,

It’s the changes they made to the way you mod in order to sell mods that screwed with how modding works supposedly. Apparently a few of the good modders have already said “fuck this garbage” and bailed. That coupled with starfields flop leaves less people interested in fighting the system to get mods to work anyway :(

XTornado,

But the modding tools are not even out so not sure how sanely those complains are…

Pregnenolone,

Kind of sick of devs being such cunts and denying the criticism so publically.

Starfield might not be objectively shit, but there is heaps of fair criticism. I fucking hated it for what it’s worth. Probably worst game I’ve played in 3-5 years.

drunkosaurus,

Kind of sick of devs being such cunts and denying the criticism so publically.

Well this was going to be their next big cash cow game that they keep re-releasing for 10 years, and they find it hard to accept that it's not working out.

And009,

Which means more efforts put into Elder scrolls 6. I dont see how this is not a win.

Starfield will be dependent on the community who’ll do something fun with the engine anyways.

gravitas_deficiency,

Orrrrr “sorry guys but you wrote a dog of a game so we’re letting you all go” since that seems to be in vogue these days.

Maybe some enterprising souls in the mod community will release an overhaul at some point, but that point will unfortunately not be soon, given the work it would entail.

ICastFist,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

Which means more efforts put into Elder scrolls 6

Don’t get your hopes high, they can still fuck that up big time

iheartneopets,

If anyone thinks they won’t, then they haven’t been paying attention since fallout 4’s release. Then fallout 76’s release. And now this. No way elder scrolls doesn’t shit the bed in 20 years, or whenever it’s coming out.

JokeDeity,

To this very day 76 runs like absolute dog shit. They just released a paid DLC (on top of all the MTX bullshit) and yet shooting enemies is still broken and takes literal seconds in some cases to register, enemies still teleport around, and there’s no real direction or incentives to explore anything. One of the worst games I’ve ever tried to play and every time I give it another chance, nothing has improved for the better.

qarbone,

I’m gonna try and save you time and money. Just wait for modders to make that game in Skyrim. I’m fairly sure Beyond Skyrim: Elsweyr isn’t as far along as some of the others, but you’ll have other major mods to play in the meanwhile.

BruceTwarzen,

It might not be shit, but it's pretty shit for 2023 and 80 dollars.

Kolanaki,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

Don’t fool yourself I to thinking we don’t understand why your shit game is shit, Emil.

OctopusKurwa,

Dude needed to be fired years ago

yata,

“The game isn’t boring for the reasons that you think, it is boring for these completely secret reasons.”

Ok.

ekZepp,
@ekZepp@lemmy.world avatar

"You all are just too stupid to understand why we made the game so boring to explore and didn’t put a single vehicle or alien ride in the whole fkng galaxy. "

Sincerely, SF Developers

Pratai,

I can’t believe I was ever bothered by the fact that MS bought them out. It’s almost schadenfreude to watch this train wreck knowing it’s not ever going to be something I’ll have to deal with.

Zima,
Zima avatar

This seems like a deflection rather than accepting the game "is the way it is" no matter the reason.

redcalcium,

Gamers: this game is not fun

Game Design Director: Funny how disconnected some players are from the realities of game development, and yet they speak with complete authority

BruceTwarzen,

Gamers: this game isn't fun.

Game Director: we know, shithead, but not for the way you think it is.

baropithecus,

Emil sounds defensive but he’s right – as someone outside the gaming industry, I cannot fathom how so much effort can result in such a shallow, tepid stew of shit. But because of how much time, staff and money were thrown at it, it’s not a big stretch to assume that incompetence was involved – unless it was leprechauns that stole the game’s vision, plot, dialogue, sense of scale and exploration and replaced it with loading screens.

sugar_in_your_tea,

Yeah, I don’t think anyone has any real complaints about the technical aspects (other than some performance tuning).

sirico, (edited )
@sirico@feddit.uk avatar

Follow that up with why or I’ll just assume it’s complicity with a heavy reliance on the missing modding community

768,

There are great smaller game devs that actually incorporate modders with their contributions into the game with mentioning and a certain amount of the future revenue. This makes mods basically commercial pull requests. Bethesda should be honest and do that too.

Corkyskog,

“This game sucks!” “Don’t pretend like you know why it sucks!” “Wait… wut? I was just stating my opinion O.o”

Kolanaki,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

It doesn’t have “it.” I don’t know what “it” is, but I know Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 had “it” and somehow Starfield does not. It is completely devoid of that “it” factor that their other games had, even if it has everything else those games had and more. It is still missing the crucial “it.”

Corkyskog,

If your talking about MW3, I wouldn’t know. But the MW franchise and COD in general is an objectively shitty game. It’s just cool because you can launch it in minutes and instantly have 14 year Olds in your ear telling you how much weight your mother had recently gained. And if you were angry you could take it out in the game, and then when you loose you can just say “FUCK. OH well this game is a piece of shite anyway”. There is a certain allure to a game that perfectly manages those experiences and the MW franchise certainly had that…

Kolanaki,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

Why the heck would you think I’m talking about MW3?

Krauerking,

Well crafted lovely little places to discover even if they have no impact on the grander story.

That’s it. Auto generated planets and straight forward hub locations makes for boring exploration but in the fallout games you could discover a school that was feeding their kids radioactive slime because they got paid too and it was just a side story. Skyrim games you could stumble upon a house that had been ravaged by accidental tunnels into a cave full of nightmares cracking open in the basement.

Things that you stumble upon naturally while exploring and feel crafted carefully to just be a fun side off thing but if they have to put up a neon sign and make you fast travel to a location to find their little joke of a raider camp then it doesn’t feel special. It’s just a bunch of disjointed maps stuck together through a menu.

CryptidBestiary,

I would go out on a limb and say it’s probably the joys of traveling and discovering things along the way. The Bethesda “magic” is their approach in open world game design. In almost every corner, there’s something interesting to discover (side quests, well crafted environment, and characters). When you take that away and replace it with just mundane fast traveling, loading screens, and procedurally generated empty maps, then you get Starfield. It’s a Bethesda game missing that Bethesda “magic”

Thcdenton,

I don’t care why it is the way it is. I care if it’s fun or not.

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