daredevil, (edited )
daredevil avatar

I've been struggling with / for awhile now, it's been disheartening. I've been trying to be more active about following various users and domains in hopes that more content will to the I moderate. However, it hasn't really proven to be helpful. In some cases, I can't even find particular instances that users post from via kbin. I can find the instance by going to the page itself, but I suppose it may just take more time than I thought? In some cases, trying to follow a user takes me to an error page, and repeated attempts prove unsuccessful. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but it's rather confusing when I can see posts from a given instance, yet can't search for the instance itself to federate more content. I've tried asking about it, and no one seems to know or be able to help. Searching the fediverse for information is also difficult due to the noise I have to sift through.

With that said, I know there's other stuff to consider: Ernest is planning a big update for kbin, some instances have restricted federation with kbin due to moderation not properly federating to other communities, and kbin being a younger platform than /mastodon. I'll try to be patient, there's just some features that I really hope mature soon as there are features I'd like to use, but can't yet. Also, before this gets misconstrued again like it has in the past, I am still enjoying my time on kbin and support Ernest's efforts in regard to this platform. I wouldn't still be posting here if I weren't enjoying my time here.

Arotrios,
Arotrios avatar

Just wanna say I agree - it can be a frustrating process to figure it all out.

In some cases, trying to follow a user takes me to an error page, and repeated attempts prove unsuccessful.

This confused the fuck out of me until I realized that Mastodon instances have the option for users to allow or deny follow requests. Basically, if you click on someone's follow and nothing happens (or you get an error page), what's happened is that you've sent them a follow request that they have to approve. Kbin's interface fails here (hopefully will improve with update) and does nothing. If they do chose to let you follow them, you'll see their account update.

In some cases, I can't even find particular instances that users post from via kbin.

Go to the poster's account, and follow them. If Kbin hasn't actively federated the site yet, it usually does so pretty quickly after a follow. This usually also lets you link to the community they posted to.

more content will to the I moderate.

Check your magazine's Microblog section - you may be getting more content than you realize. Your magazine tags will determine what additional content (aside from ) your Microblogs pick up. Everything from Mastodon users shows up there on Kbin.

daredevil, (edited )
daredevil avatar

Thanks for the reply.

Basically, if you click on someone's follow and nothing happens (or you get an error page), what's happened is that you've sent them a follow request that they have to approve.

This makes sense, and reflects what I've just seen regarding a user I was trying to follow earlier.

If Kbin hasn't actively federated the site yet, it usually does so pretty quickly after a follow.

My follow has updated, however, I'm still unable to access https://kbin.social/d/urusai.social. This isn't a huge deal, just something I wanted to draw attention to, I suppose. Perhaps it'll federate some time down the line. To future readers, I'll try to remember to edit this comment with an update if and when it happens.

edit:
Thanks to @Arotrios for the answer
https://kbin.social/m/kbinMeta/t/469791/Just-Curious-How-long-does-it-take-for-a-kbin#entry-comment-2460389

Additional context here
https://kbin.social/m/kbinMeta/t/469791/Just-Curious-How-long-does-it-take-for-a-kbin#entry-comment-2460434

Check your magazine's Microblog section - you may be getting more content than you realize. Your magazine tags will determine what additional content (aside from ) your Microblogs pick up. Everything from Mastodon users shows up there on Kbin.

I actually check this daily and have reset my tags on a few occasions to see if it would help on top of what I mentioned previously. I've also changed the sort options (e.g. new, hot, top, etc) just in case, to check whether or not things have been federating. What has been confusing to me is, the content federation seems to work when I search the tag outside of my magazine. For instance, I see microblogs federated to @japanese yet I do not see the same in @learnjapanese. This has also been an issue with @residentevil as well. Oddly enough, even users I have already followed do not have their content federated to these magazines at times, even though I have checked their history and seen them use the tags I've assigned to the magazines. I could simply be doing something wrong, but I'm not sure what it is.

Edit: Now that I think about it, there have even been very occasional instances where I have seen content federated to @residentevil in the past. I remember following them and then have seen them post with the tags on a future occasion, but those subsequent posts were not federated to the magazine. Pretty odd, but I'll just attribute it to kbin's growing pains. I hope this isn't coming off as too negative, I've just been really trying to nurture these little communities and better understand this system.

Arotrios,
Arotrios avatar

Not sure what's going on with the kbin.social/d/ view of urusai.social, but I was able to find posts (not threads) here:

https://kbin.social/search?q=urusai.social

This led me to @neatchee, who is the instance owner. You might try following them, but I agree, that's an odd bug.

Oddly enough, even users I have already followed do not have their content federated to these magazines at times, even though I have checked their history and seen them use the tags I've assigned to the magazines. I could simply be doing something wrong, but I'm not sure what it is.

Yeah, posting to Kbin from Mastodon instances is a challenge. Kbin filters and tries to assign incoming hashtags to existing magazine hashtags.

If a post contains a hashtag that is taken by another magazine, that magazine usually gets the content instead of yours. Your magazine's hashtag has to appear first in the text. Your Japanese forum is probably catching all of the posts before they get to LearnJapanese.

Second, it's random which of your magazine hashtags will pull content and from who. The order of the hashtags doesn't appear to affect this.

The only way to ensure a post gets from Mastdon to Kbin or Lemmy is to put @yourmagazine@kbin.social in the post tag. This will make sure it shows up on Lemmy, and will get your post to the Kbin Microblog of the magazine 90% of the time. If you want to be extra sure, do it like this:

@yourmagazinename@kbin.social #yourmagazinename (then any following hashtags)

Hopefully the update will clean this up a bit.

neatchee,
@neatchee@urusai.social avatar

@Arotrios @readbeanicecream @daredevil fwiw I can confirm that URUSAI! does not have any restrictions on kbin.social. And I'm able to load your kbin profiles from our Mastodon instance without issue.

I'd need to look into how the /d/ implementation in kbin works to know more.

But if you toss me the URL of a mastodon instance that DOES show up there without issue I might be able to learn something :)

Arotrios,
Arotrios avatar

@neatchee @daredevil I think perhaps someone has to post a link hosted on your instance for it to appear. For instance this works:

https://kbin.social/d/mastodon.social

but smaller instances like this:

https://kbin.social/d/pagan.plus

...don't seem to, generating a 404 because no one has created a link or thread back to a pagan.plus post (although their users post over to kbin often). Possibly posting link (in the url field of Add a Link on Kbin) to an urusai.social hosted post will do the trick.

neatchee,
@neatchee@urusai.social avatar

@Arotrios @readbeanicecream @daredevil this sounds very plausible. Unexpected, but it would make sense that kbin's /d/ path is showing you the directory of content from your server's local cache and not querying the target server.

Which kinda makes sense, honestly: since that feature is trying to list everything kbin knows about from the target server, populating it for the first time would definitely cause a significant load on that instance

neatchee,
@neatchee@urusai.social avatar

@Arotrios @readbeanicecream @daredevil now I'm really curious how it works when you subscribe to a server. Is it pulling in that server's public and local feeds? Or is it only showing you posts from users on that server that your instance already knows about

Arotrios,
Arotrios avatar

Only that it knows about to start, but I think that once it gets subscriptions to the domain, it starts pulling more automatically. I could be wrong, however - I'm not sure which activities aside from posting are federated.

EDIT: I was wrong - the domain only grabs Threads, so Mastodon posts will likely not show up this way. They may get indexed if they're sent to a kbin magazine using the @magazinename@kbin.social format

daredevil,
daredevil avatar

I'll keep an eye on our instance of urusai.social and let you know in the future

Arotrios,
Arotrios avatar

@daredevil @neatchee - Looks like the linked post is what did the trick. I posted here to the Fediverse community to let them know about your instance (it's pointed at your pinned intro post).

As such, this link is now working for daredevil:

https://kbin.social/d/urusai.social

And will allow subscriptions.

neatchee,
@neatchee@urusai.social avatar

@Arotrios @readbeanicecream @daredevil and it answers my question: it is not the full server firehose, just the posts already known to the kbin server

daredevil,
daredevil avatar

Fantastic, this has been very enlightening. I appreciate your time and effort.

daredevil,
daredevil avatar

This led me to @neatchee, who is the instance owner. You might try following them, but I agree, that's an odd bug.

Thanks, it's worth a shot.

If a post contains a hashtag that is taken by another magazine, that magazine usually gets the content instead of yours. Your magazine's hashtag has to appear first in the text. Your Japanese forum is probably catching all of the posts before they get to LearnJapanese.

So it seems as if @japanese gets priority of the hashtag due to it being the name of their magazine? Or possibly that they had the hashtag first? I hope multiple magazines are able to federate the same hashtag eventually. @Acala, the admin of @japanese has been inactive for the past few weeks. That's rather unfortunate, as the magazine has no published threads in addition to an inactive moderator.

Second, it's random which of your magazine hashtags will pull content and from who.

That's unfortunate, but helps to clear things up.

The only way to ensure a post gets from Mastdon to Kbin or Lemmy is to put @yourmagazine@kbin.social in the post tag. This will make sure it shows up on Lemmy, and will get your post to the Kbin Microblog of the magazine 90% of the time. If you want to be extra sure, do it like this:
@yourmagazinename@kbin.social #yourmagazinename (then any following hashtags)

This has been very informative, thank you. I'm probably not gonna bug users to add this to their posts, but if I ever decide to use mastodon myself I'll keep this in mind.

Hopefully the update will clean this up a bit.

Agreed, kbin as a platform is the most interesting for me, and I hope to see things turn out well.

HarkMahlberg,
HarkMahlberg avatar

This confused the fuck out of me until I realized that Mastodon instances have the option for users to allow or deny follow requests. Basically, if you click on someone's follow and nothing happens (or you get an error page), what's happened is that you've sent them a follow request that they have to approve. Kbin's interface fails here (hopefully will improve with update) and does nothing. If they do chose to let you follow them, you'll see their account update.

God this explains so much. I tried hitting the Follow button multiple times in a row and now I probably look like a crazy person spamming someone with follow requests. ;_;

Arotrios,
Arotrios avatar

Depends on the instance in my experience - mastodon.social usually posts within seconds. Note that due to spam issues, kbin.social has been dealing with a recent wave of defederation, so if you're not seeing your posts appear, that might be the cause.

readbeanicecream,
readbeanicecream avatar

@Arotrios Interestingly enough, I can see my kbin posts in Mastodon as https://mastodon.social/@readbeanicecream@kbin.social, but it seems that those posts do not appear in my Mastodon timeline under the hashtags that I follow. For example, if I post something that includes , I do not see that post in Mastodon under . However, I do see it as a post under https://mastodon.social/@readbeanicecream@kbin.social.

I guess I am still just learning how it all works.

Arotrios, (edited )
Arotrios avatar

@readbeanicecream Hashtags are really hit or miss in general across instances.

I found that most Mastodon instances only collect posts from other Mastodon instances under hashtags (definitely the case with mastodon.social). I suspect this is because they are sharing the same posting format.

The long form posting format that Lemmy and Kbin use for Threads has a 25k character limit, too big for most Mastodon instances. This long form post is truncated into the posting limits of the Mastodon instance, but the conversion protocol is not sophisticated enough to read the JSON file to flag the enclosed hashtags as data fields defining the post.

The user-facing presentation layer then adds hyperlinks to what it can determine as hashtags (as it does to anything with a # preceding it), but the federating instance itself thinks the entire post is just post content.

Related notes - I found that when posting to Kbin from Mastodon, the order of the hashtags determines which Microblog the post appears under. Also, Lemmy strips hashtags placed in the "Tags" section of a Thread or Link when content makes its way there.

readbeanicecream,
readbeanicecream avatar

@Arotrios Thank you. That is a great explanation.

PugJesus, (edited )
PugJesus avatar

I haven't been able to post using Kbin for a bit due to a bug, but I can answer the reverse - posts on Lemmy generally show up on Kbin within a minute.

Arotrios,
Arotrios avatar

If you've got domains blocked, that might be causing the error. Domain blocking seems to gum up posting and comment visibility. Removing my domain blocks cleared up the issues I was having about a month ago.

PugJesus,
PugJesus avatar

Tried that already. Unfortunately, didn't work out.

Arotrios,
Arotrios avatar

Dammit - you're one of the best posters here.

Odd that comments are working for you. During my previous issues I did note that there were posting differences when I used the "Add Link", "Comment" and "Post" functionality (which worked) versus the "Add Thread" and "Add Picture" options (which didn't, or worked partially after throwing an initial 500 error). Given that you can still comment, you may have some posting access with the other options.

PugJesus,
PugJesus avatar

Aw, why thanks!

'Add picture' is the one that's denied to me, I can still post links. But I mostly post pictures and I hate going through the hassle of uploading to a third party site first, so I just use my Lemmy.world or DBZ alts for now. Been going on for two weeks or so, figure it might get cleared up after Kbin's upcoming update.

Arotrios,
Arotrios avatar

Ahh gotcha. The add Pics function never worked very well for me, so I haven't used it in a bit (mainly rely on Links and Threads). I've also noticed that kbin pictures only occasionally make it through Federation (seems to happen on other kbin instances as well) - seems really random whether or not they appear on the federating instance.

sysop,

simplistic code attempts now. immediate

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