This magazine is from a federated server and may be incomplete. Browse more on the original instance.

xtremeownage, (edited ) in r/The_Donald now on Lemmy (edit: not anymore)

… Stop fearmongering.

The_Donald, isn’t on lemmy. It’s here: patriots.win

After reddit booted them, they built their own reddit. I am pretty sure, they aren’t interested in moving here, as that would ruin their echo-chamber.

Defederation is not the solution to your problem. sh.itjust.works is one of the larger lemmy instances, hosting lots of users, and lots of content.

The best solution for you, if you don’t want to see sh.itjust.works/c/thedonald is to block the community. (Or the ONE USER who posts stuff in it)

You cannot defederate every instance, that hosts a community which you do not agree with or like.

(Also- unrelated- c/thedonald isn’t going places… after it breaks the fediverse record of negative downvotes, it will prob disappear soon…)


@Tsinc Care to share your viewpoint?

Tsinc, (edited )
@Tsinc@feddit.de avatar

They might have a main community on patriots.win, that doesn't mean they wont try to spread their ideology into other social media. I don't think TD on sh.it.just.works will be successfull, but I hoped for a wider agreement here, that racism should not be activly shared. I can block them, I can move to another instance, but what i really want is to minimize the range of this and future extreme-right communities in the lemmyverse.

I think we have the amazing new tool of a federated space to build really nice communities. Why dont we use it? The admins of sh.itjust.works have the choice. If they are in favour of nazis, we better not wait longer until they are even bigger and more difficult to defederate.

You cannot defederate every instance, that hosts a community which you do not agree with or like.

sounds to me like it's my problem to not like nazis


I don’t think anyone wants racism to spread. I mean- look at the rules for my instance for example. There aren’t many.

  1. Don’t be an asshole
  2. Don’t be racist.
  3. Don’t spam.

The only point I am trying to address here- federderating instances, is going to kill this platform MUCH faster then just letting that one, tiny echo-chamber exist.

Lets say, we block that community and ban it. The problem is solved, right?

Absolutely not!, now you are going to have a bunch of those followers attacking lemmy with a vengeance, trying to push the agenda at every single corner!

On the other side- I think it is in the best interests of the platform as a whole, to remain somewhat neutral.

Sure, we have have individual communities who prefer left-wing, or right-wing. We have have instances dedicated to being liberal or conservative.

But- at a platform level, immediately bashing out on communities because it is against another’s belief- is going to cause a lot more problems than it solves. Think about it, do you honestly thing the_donald would have ever existed if the tension from reddit didn’t cause them to form their own echo chamber?

(Also- before anyone comments on my political affiliation- I am libertarian. I do not give a rats ass who you vote for, and I openly support your choice and right to vote how you choose.)


Yes. Fox News wasn't right wing and fascist enough. So they created OAN. They are willing to make there own thing to make layers of deeper circles. Fox News is a pipeline to OAN but ever since OAN was banned from most services the alt right was quieted until other pipelines funneled them to the derangement. Each subsequent deeper circle gets less reach when you kill the pipelines.

It is the paradox of tolerance. You can be welcoming to everyone with the same ideologues of tolerance that is the social contract of an open and welcoming society. But as soon as a rat comes in trying to spread intolerance and hate you must sever them out and cut them out to stop the spread. If you don't want racists purge them as soon as possible and don't let them get footing in the community. If you don't want assholes kick them out. Making a secondary account after they change their mind and want to be apart of a welcoming society is easy. But purging people who have infiltrated the highest parts of society after deciding you had enough is impossible.


I think you're a Nazi and you should be banned from lemmy.ml. Only a Nazi would be in favour of banning free speech and political opponents. Now what? How is this supposed to end?

VoxAdActa, (edited )
VoxAdActa avatar

And over here, we have the Drama-Bitch habitat. If you listen carefully, you can hear its over-exaggerated mating call. This species is interesting because it evolved a unique vision mechanism: it can only see the world in extreme shades of white and black. Scientists currently think this is due to generations of inbreeding. When threatened with any kind of nuance, it resorts to the loud braying from which it gets its name; an overdramatic lament of how the world will turn into a literal hellscape if it doesn't get its way. It's incapable of understanding how absurd it sounds, and insists on being taken seriously, even though its wailings are too idiotic to even begin to engage with.

HEY! SIR! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DON'T TAP ON THE GLASS! You get it started and it'll disappear into its pillow fort and scream literally all day long!

Moving on....


Their speech is not free, we all pay by having to put up with their bullshit. Even if its metaphorically sticking our fingers in our ears anytime they're nearby.

BraveSirZaphod avatar

How is this supposed to end?

It ends with the recognition that truth is a thing that exists, facts are real, and while there is plenty of room for debate, some things fall outside of that. That the Holocaust happened is not something we get to have an Opinion™ on. And while we can absolutely have a conversation about where that line should be, most people recognize that there should be a line, and if the goal is to create a generally pleasant online space, the line should probably be higher than "literally criminal".

I often see this idea pushed that, because some topics are controversial and politics is messy, it is impossible to actually label anything as true and all opinions are thus equally valid and should be respected. This is, quite simply, wrong. "I think you're the real Nazi" is only a plausible response if you pretend that Nazi is a genetical word for "person I disagree with" rather than a real term with actual meaning that either does or does not describe something.

jalda avatar

You're actually smooth brained for this

cendawanita avatar

@xtremeownage Downvotes do nothing here to trigger deletion or admin action.


I know, but eventually, the user posting that content should figure out- it’s not going anywhere…

Unless- there are users actively subscribing to that community.

cendawanita avatar


darq avatar

That's not how fascists work.


Defederation may be the only solution to the problem without changing the source code to allow for better administration tools.


Defederation may be the only solution to the problem without changing the source code to allow for better administration tools.

Do note, posts from that community, will ONLY federate to your instance, if somebody is actively subscribed to it.

If nobody is subscribed to that community, then posts from that community WILL NOT flow to your instance.

GunnarRunnar, (edited )

So if I want to spread my shit, I just need to create an account on that instance and subscribe to the community? Seems feasible and if they ban that account I (or someone else from the shit community) can create a new account and just keep going.


I mean, you would also need to make sure the posts you were trying to spread, were not -5000 in votes too. (Otherwise, I don’t think the algorithm is going to pick them up…)

Overzeetop avatar

That the (unfortunate) workaround.




You can and should defederate from things you don't want to see. That's the whole point of the entire project, that you can control your experience and choose to interact with whatever communities you wish. The Donald has a history of brigading and generally being a barbarian horde of racist dickheads, so defederating from them makes absolute sense. This isn't just "I don't like your opinion", it's absolutely "these people have a proven history of ruining every group they go near."


sh.itjust.works isn’t just c/thedonald.

Reddit, wasn’t just r/thedonald.

c/thedonald, is a SINGLE USER on an entire instance.


Defederating the entire instance, to block the content of a single user, ONLY HURTS the thousands of users on that server, who want to see content elsewhere, and ONLY HURTS the users elsewhere, who want to see content on THAT server.

darq avatar

Then perhaps that instance should consider if it really wants to host the hateful content everyone is objecting to.


Absolutely! Defederation is the prime weapon against these choad warriors.

Fuck fascists, and fuck any instance which would host them!


There’s probably 11 fascists on kbin as well. Should your instance by defederated too?

CynAq, in r/The_Donald now on Lemmy (edit: not anymore)
CynAq avatar

I just preemptively blocked the community for my account. I'd recommend everyone do the same until, and if they prove to be a problem.
I think instead of calling for pre-blocks or defederation of entire instances, we have to be vigilant and keep a close eye on the discussions going on around us.

I'm saying this not because I'm an "enlightened centrist" living in a delusion of tolerance or a fascist in disguise. I am as left leaning, antifascist, and antiauthoritarian as they get. I'm just saying this as I know from experience that there's no real way to eliminate people with bigoted views from our communities other than on an individual basis.

Ban an entire instance, you'll still have to block the individuals if they come one by one to stir shit up on your turf. Just skip the first part and go for the individual communities and users. They will simply find each other and form groups, as instances or otherwise anyway.

I know it's not ideal, but there's no real way to prevent these fascist groups from forming anywhere there's a large enough number of people. We can only block our own interaction with them and form counter groups, and actively fight against their bigotry.

I believe this is the sad truth we all have to live with, at least for the time being, because I can't see defederation as an effective tool.

imaqtpie avatar

This is a fantastic comment. Defederation just causes more problems, as counterintuitive as that seems.

The threadiverse as a whole has a great number of smart, reasonable people. I would like to believe that we can build a system that allows us to flourish and them to simply exist.

But if we can't then we always have the option


What's the "more" when you defederate from problematic instances?

It's cowardice if you ban hate speech from your platform but don't moderate the content coming from other instances that aren't up to your standard. It's having your cake and eating it too.

It doesn't make sense that you don't trust your instance to moderate the content. Besides, isn't defederation public knowledge? So you can't just gaslight your instance's users willynilly, you'll be caught if you start defederating from pettiness.


Why should they get a platform? Why should they be allowed “to simply exist”? Because the Marketplace of Ideas will sort itself out and make sure the best ideas “flourish”? I regret to inform you that the real world doesn’t work like the thought experiments of classical liberalism, and TD’s namesake is ironically a great demonstration of that.

Reactionary spaces should be stamped out.

cendawanita avatar

@CynAq you don't have to defed entire instances, if the instance themselves are willing to keep to their own principles. If that's not kept or they've changed their position, it is actually Fedi culture to date, to defed (this is on instance to instance basis). Federation isn't being connected to everyone, it's practicing the right to associate. That's why if you don't agree with your instance, unlike closed systems, you have the right/freedom to move.

(The problem is the moving so far only carries your social graph not post history. So yes there is a penalty - but this also incentivize users to also push their admins to act more representatively. Assuming that's what the majority wants)

cendawanita avatar

Anyway, what does then tend to shake out is that the bigger instances need to decide if it's open for all or not, and the social consequences of that, and more small to midsized instances émerge.

Hawne avatar

Totally agreeing. I remember of my BBS and Usenet days and we're facing a somewhat similar situation: in a distributed architecture we will be dealing with unsavory individuals and communities. We definitely will.

I was talking about this exact situation the other day with a reddit-migrant (net)friend of mine. We were debating on how and where to move the (somewhat important) France subreddit, as for now the most populated French community in the verse is hosted on an instance relaying lemmygrad - which raises some concern.

Well, I talked to him about the UN. Sorry to get a bit pseudo-political here but I think you'll get the idea.

The comparison I used is that while it is quite irritating (at the moment, but not only) that Russia is sitting at the security council, it is still a good thing that it is still a member of the UN. Because what matters in the end is that we all can discuss issues and overcome conflicts in order to keep on living all together.

And here in the fediverse we don't even have to deal with a network-wide veto from any unsavory community. Worst case, they're sitting on their "local security council" - meaning they're ruling within their own node, but as a federation we don't have to comply if thing s get really ugly.

However in the end what matters is the federation - the UN. When talking about server-to-server or server-to-federation conflicts defederation must be the last resort, because what really matters in the end is the federation surviving. Without it we're just powerless and will soon get back to some shady reddit clone à la squabbles.

Now, to get back to these usenet days. If you remember those days we had newsgroups varying from gardening to politics, but wa also had some less civil newsgroups including cp and alike. Most of these "worst contenders" were only relayed by a few major nodes but still they made their way through Usenet because of its very distributed architecture.

People not wanting to have any interaction with those newsgroups could either connect to a node ralaying them while not downloading their headers, or they could connect to a more "safe space" node. And on the other hand people who wished to interact with those newsgroups had to connect to anode relaying them, just as simple as that.

I am convinced we're heading towards a similar architecture and situation. As the fediverse grows we definitely will encounter bad people and bad communities, and sometimes we will look as bad people or bad communities to others. This is my truth, tell me yours, that's the way it goes. And it's not really a big deal.

I'm saying it's not a big deal because in the end, with a distributed architecture, the only censorship that really matters is yours. Your own filters, your choice of either connecting instance or followed communities and individuals. Due to its very nature, in a distributed architecture you are the one setting up your own barriers. Hardware and network distribution cannot and shall not do this part of the job for you, and server-to-server defed should only be the worst-case scenario in order - for instance not to relay (and mirror) cp, and for openly bot-friendly instances.

Now mind you, am I saying there is no safe space? Well, to a certain extent. Just as in a centralized architecture each of us will make their own "nest" so to speak and will interact with the people and communities we choose. We can board a plane with a nazi without being "tainted" by its naziness and if it really unsettles us we can always ask for a separation curtain - as in, individual defederation. Those are already programmed and will be available in the next versions, allowing any user to just ignore some communities even if they are relayed by their instance.

In a distributed architecture, we must all deal with this double-edged paradigm: We WILL encounter people and communities we don't like, but we do NOT HAVE TO suffer from them. Individual filters (and soon, individual defed) are here to help us establish our personal way of cherry-picking whatever this network has to offer.

This is usenet on steroids. There is no premade safe space and it shouldn't be, because what matters in the end is the network and not its junk. In a distributed architecture it's mostly up to the end user to set their own junk filters.

atocci, in Interesting difference from Reddit: Upvotes/Downvotes are not anonymous
atocci avatar

They're definitely not anonymous, and Kbin actually does have the UI to show who is upvoting and downvoting any post if you view it on there.

BasicWhiteGirl avatar

I love it. I've already used that feature to block someone who was stalking my posts and downvoting them. Then I got curious and checked out a bunch of posts on the front page that had downvotes but didnt really warrant them. I found there were about 5 accounts who were heavy downvoters for apparently no reason. They also got blocked.

atocci avatar

I agree, I think it's useful! I also blocked a person yesterday who was downvote stalking me, they clearly didn't want to see the things I was posting anyway.

abff08f4813c avatar

Can someone show me how to find this? I can't figure it out.

Also curious if it's possible to see who is subscribed to a magazine or who is following me.

BasicWhiteGirl avatar

More > activity > reduces for Kbin.

Scroll to the bottom of the thread and find reduces for the thread.

BasicWhiteGirl avatar


  • Loading...
  • sznowicki,

    Kbin is influenced by wykop.pl that have a list of wbo downvotes or upvotes. Helps finding bots or mobs. Wykop was originally a Digg clone. It was huge in Poland for some time until it went full right wing populist and community got split into those who stayed and those who migrated to reddit.

    Digg got a polish clone. Digg dies. Polish clone is huge. Some people move to Reddit. Polish clone eventually becomes a trash can. Wykop migrants are fed up by reddit, they move to kbin that is a Polish reddit clone but better.

    What a circle.


    It's an unavoidable feature of federation that up-/downvotes are public. Kbin chooses to make that fact visible, but if it didn't, it would be easy to make a tool to get that information from any fediverse instance. Kbin making that fact visible at least alerts you that your votes are public.


    That's only on KBin though and it's a feature design of the KBin software. That's because it's based on Twitter where likes are public. Lemmy doesn't publicly show those actions. Idk how far it goes in terms Kbin tracking guests though.

    atocci avatar

    It's not specific to kbin actually, it's just how the activitypub protocol reports likes/upvotes. I can see votes on lemmy threads made by lemmy users for example because that data needs to be reported as part of the protocol.

    MrsEaves, in my thoughts on lemmy so far
    MrsEaves avatar

    I’m on kbin and really liking it. I feel right at home and I actually love that I can see Mastodon content in a threaded, Reddit-like format. It’s great to be able to see Lemmy content too - it feels like there’s enough activity here with all that that I want to stick around and participate in the community.

    elight, in How is Lemmy going to make money?
    Austin-Philp avatar

    Currently commenting this from kbin - honestly I love it, much more flexible than Lemmy, you can still use all Lemmy content and you can access Mastadon through it!


    One thing I'm wondering about is, how to discover kbin instances? There's a spot on the website to encourage people to create their own instances, but how do people find them? I mean if the developer is able to fund to keep his own website open then I guess it doesn't matter, but I assume if he's encouraging people to create their own instances it might be worthwhile to have people be able to find these instances.

    Edit: Found it. I had looked all over the website for something to show what instances it was federated with (like how Lemmy has it on the bottom) but I couldn't find it, but I clicked on dev's kbin account and its in his profile.


    @poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

    Kbin has a site similar to join-lemmy.org on https://kbin.pub

    themadcodger, (edited )
    themadcodger avatar

    Yeah, that is one thing to consider, but kbin is much newer than Lemmy, so has some things to work out still. But that said I've had no problems with it so far.

    edit Forgot to mention, instances are mentioned on the official website.


    You may have just convinced me to try it out. A few questions though: Does it have any limitations when accessing content on other Fediverse clients? Like anything goofy when looking at lemmy content for instance? Second is there an Android app available you could recommend? Third, what instances are cool to start with?

    themadcodger avatar

    I've pretty much only been using Kbin instead of Lemmy and I really haven't run into any problems. The dev just fixed the weird thing where upvotes here did nothing on Lemmy, you had to favorite it instead. But that's gone after users requested it.

    There isn't a native app yet but one is in development (near the bottom). It is a newer platform compared to Lemmy (same as Calckey compared to mastodon) but personally I like the UI better. Plus the native integration to mastodon is nice. I've been using it as a PWA for the time being and haven't had any real issues, but I'm waiting for an app as well 😅

    Being new, I'm on the main instance kbin.social. It's still small and there aren't many instances yet. Hopefully that will change. But nice thing about the fediverse is you can try it out and see what fits for you. Hell, you could join Friendica (FB equivalent) and access this content there if that floats your boat. So give it a try and see what you like!


    Alright you convinced me and I made an account. I love that it more effectively interfaces with the rest of the fediverse. Is there a better search function though? I'd love to follow some official Mastodon users like Reuters or Ars Technica but the main search doesn't let me filter for specifics.

    themadcodger avatar

    At this stage in development, things aren't quite robust yet. That said, much like email where you have to know someone's address before you can add them, it's a bit like that here.

    If you search for @arstechnica@mastodon.social it'll show up and you can follow them from kbin. Same process for communities on Lemmy.


    Oh, nice. I was hoping I'd see something like this, it's an open protocol so complete alternative implementations to accomplish Reddit-like functionality is great. Nobody can rest on their laurels or assume that they get to decide what features are allowed.

    @cbt@snabelen.no avatar

    @elight @buda I support this message 😅


    Yet our messages were removed from the thread.

    Seems to make my point for me. They're hiding who they are.

    @knova@links.dartboard.social avatar

    Your messages are still visible.


    Oh, I'm wrong. I appear to be sort of banned but with no notification or warning. I can see the content here when no authenticated. When I authenticate, I see no comments on this post. Cute. And lousy moderation.

    @cbt@snabelen.no avatar


    Ooh! Right! I was wondering if there was stuff that hadn't been updated for my end. lol

    That is quite bad though.

    Speaks volumes about the Lemmy maintainers as you haven't really done anything wrong. 😅 (As they are the moderators of the group and the entire lemmy.ml instance.)



    Help me out here. If I can't see this thread on kbin.social when logged into kbin.social, doesn't that mean that Earnest, the dev/instance owner of kbin.social, is attempting to ban me from it?

    I was able to comment by viewing the thread incognito in Safari and commenting by direct linking to reply to your comment. kbin.social doesn't yet prevent this.

    I wonder if/when I'll get IP-banned for being skeptical of the dev/instance owner?


    I love it when people get banned but somehow they're still commenting on the same post which got them banned with absolutely no problems. Sounds like a very real ban.


    No. Just really weak moderation tools, so far. Here'a some proof for you. Best I can do on my iPhone. I can send one from my PC later if it's not clear enough that I'm logged in and can't see comments. I can't see yours either via permalink. I copied the reply-to permalink to my logged in browser to get this to work.


    That sounds more like a bug than anything intentional, since all your comments are still here

    mstrbtr, (edited )
    mstrbtr avatar

    Jesus this got massdownvoted by Lemmy tankies! xD Luckily there isn't the same impact on Kbin when viewing the OG comment.


    Down voted because if the code is good, then you can fork it if the maintainers really get out of hand. I'm very opposed to the CCP personally.

    mstrbtr avatar

    From the information in the OG reply it seems pretty out of hand to me though, which makes the switch to Kbin that much easier as it's just plain better, and have full functionality to interact with microblogs. If Lemmy was the only one it would makes sense to fork it if needed, but now we have like 3 reddit-like fediverse platforms that we can choose between.


    We should encourage more, frankly. Misskey has exploded in forks, and it's meant good things.

    So long as they're interoperable, the diversity in experiences is good for all of us.

    mstrbtr avatar


    themadcodger avatar

    What's the 3rd platform?

    mstrbtr avatar

    It is called lotide. You can read about it here https://sr.ht/~vpzom/lotide/ , I guess there is also a 4th one called prismo, but the developer put down their project for various reasons, so i don't count it in.

    themadcodger avatar

    Oh that's right. I remember seeing it at one point but immediately dismissing it because of the interface. I could see how that would apply to some, but I'm definitely more of a kbin/Calckey kind of guy.

    Kierunkowy74 avatar

    5th is Brutalinks


    And Friendica has full groups support, AFAIK, so it functions like an inverse kbin, focusing the microblogging but giving full group access.

    BackOnMyBS avatar

    I only see 2 downvotes...omg I can see downvote counts!

    mstrbtr avatar

    Update: Now there are 16 downvotes on Lemmy, but like 1 upvote. While on Kbin 18 upvotes. xD

    @buda @elight

    Kaldo avatar

    That's been my journey so far, I first joined beehaw because I like the community but after reading more about lemmy, admins and lemmygrad it gave me a really sour taste in my mouth. Glad to have found kbin as an alternative with the same design idea, hopefully the recent popularity boost helps the development in the long term.


    Tankies are right

    OsrsNeedsF2P, in How much money does Lemmy.ml need to temporarily boost their servers?

    I'm also willing to donate to other instances too - Beehaw, Sopuli, Lemmygrad, Lemmyone - Anything so we can have better shock absorption. If you run one of those instances, please reply and let us know how much you think you need

    @ruud@lemmy.world avatar

    At the moment, I run lemmy.world using the funding of mastodon.world. If Lemmy.world might grow and need a dedicated server, I'll try to raise funds for it separately (or create a larger .world fundraiser as I have other instances as well)


    What if a bunch of groups from the Fediverse hosted a huge fundraiser and distributed the funds to where they were needed? Maybe even kept a bank of funds for when large, temporary influxes of funding are needed.


    That is a very good idea, you may want to send the idea to the dev.


    What kind of server and which specs is lemmy.world running on? I'm planning on setting up my own instance for a small community, but I have no idea what to brace for.

    @ruud@lemmy.world avatar

    Currently a 2 cpu 4GB VPS at Hetzner, costing 5 EUR per month. With a storage volume of also 5 per month. I am monitoring this and will scale when needed. For mastodon.world we scaled it to a dedicated server with 32 cores and 256GB so we can go a long way.


    Can you provide any info about the number of pageviews/month or pageviews/hr that setup can support for lemmy?

    @ruud@lemmy.world avatar

    No, I have nu clue about that yet. I'll monitor how Lemmy behaves and try to scale. Maybe after a while I can say something about it.


    Thanks, appreciate the data point.

    d3Xt3r, in PSA: How to link users & communities so it doesn't break for other instances

    Sorry OP, but your links don't work for me. Reading this on kbin and all your links are 404'ing.



    Maybe you could bring it up with the Kbin devs? I'm sure it wouldn't be too crazily difficult to have it work similarly over there. Just need to swap /c/ out for a /m/. Probably similar needed over here to translate /m/ to /c/ too.


    This trick only works on Lemmy, because it relies on Lemmy's URL structure. Kbin uses a different URL structure.

    Ada, in What's the term for Lemmy users?
    Ada avatar

    @beto It might be a good idea to not do that thing that happened with Mastodon, where everyone thinks the Mastodon is the Fediverse. There is more to the than just lemmy!

    @beto@lemmy.studio avatar

    Great point! Sorry, I'm new to Lemmy (but not to the Fediverse) and I see you're using kbin. It's easy to forget that people are not all using the same software — I'm still amazed that I can post to a Lemmy community from Mastodon, and I assume the same is true for kbin.

    I had this question because i was explaining Lemmy to my partner, and her favorite subreddit is BestOfRedditorUpdates. So I wondered what would be the name of the equivalent community in Lemmy. 😊


    Perhaps we can call ourselves “threaditors.”

    @beto@lemmy.studio avatar

    How about "feditors"?



    Make it so!

    @morrowind@lemmy.ml avatar

    OoO, I like , was never fond of how the whole fediverse is mashed together.

    artillect, in PSA: Use the community browser from feddit.de to find more places to be, and branch out from lemmy.ml
    artillect avatar

    kbin's magazine browser lets you search for communities on kbin and lemmy as well, and you can sort by new, hot, and active

    @scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech avatar

    Do we need to manually add communities there? Does that require an account there?

    Lohrun, in What could Lemmy.ml do to avoid becoming the next Reddit after a decade?

    It seems like the main driving factor in Reddit’s downfall is simple: money. They are making decisions that we the users hate because they think it’ll make them look more attractive to investors when they go public later this year.

    Personally, I think Lemmy just has to avoid corporate greed, bending the knee to advertisers, and not allowing extremists on its platform (or at least forcing them to their own instance that can be de-federated). The first two shouldn’t be an issue for Lemmy as long as it is able to stay funded by users. The third seems like a constant struggle for every platform nowadays.


    This is how it always goes. Hate saying always, but I can't think of one instance where a public company made a move to improve something for their customers out of the goodness of their heart. It's always about the money.


    The whole situation doesn’t really make sense to me anyways. It’s not like Reddit isn’t currently pulling in a bunch of revenue. They also have been a private company since what, 2005? I know the answer for going public is “more money” but I’m like you I can’t think of an instance where a public company has done something for the good of its users.

    It really does seem like open source user owned systems are the way of the future. We’ve been burned too many times by corporations at this point. Here’s hoping we don’t have to rely on ads and sponsors to keep the fediverse running.


    The thing is, who a company's "users" or customers are and what their product is fundamentally changes when they go public.

    For Reddit, their customers have been advertisers, and their community members have been their users. Their product has been user eyeballs they can sell to advertisers. And prior to adopting ads, their product was an open community forum and content aggregator, and their customers and users were the community members.

    After going public, however, their customers will be shareholders, and their product will be share value. This fundamentally changes how a business operates, and what it sees its purpose as.

    Stern, in r/RedditAlternatives doesn't like a Reddit Alternative

    Redditalternatives has two types of folks who visit it, the smaller one thinks reddit is shit because of the choices the employees make. The larger one thinks reddit is shit because spooky woke moralist SJW shills paid by George Soros are censoring free speech via coordinated downvote, report, and ban campaigns… Sometimes a person occupies both groups.

    The former group likes Lemmy et. al. The latter gets on here, sees a pro union post top of all, shits themselves dehydrated, and leaves to write screeds like that one.

    @seaQueue@lemmy.world avatar

    The former group likes Lemmy et. al. The latter gets on here, sees a pro union post top of all, shits themselves dehydrated, and leaves to write screeds like that one.

    So you’re saying we should upvote even more pro union content.

    I’m doing my part!


    Is this collective action to force change?

    @seaQueue@lemmy.world avatar

    We have to take a first step if we’re ever going to reach our fully automated luxury gay space communist goals.


    One can dream… in the meantime the agenda’s on industrial sabotage and unionizing


    shits themselves dehydrated

    You have a real way with words. Definitely stealing this one


    I don’t really see any hint of the poster being from the latter group though


    shits themselves dehydrated

    I’m dying

    1984, in It seems that for a large Lemmy instance to be sustainabile long term (especially at the level of traffic reddit sees) it requires ads and/or raising enough donations like Wikipedia
    @1984@lemmy.today avatar

    You are not supposed to have large instances. This is a self inflicted problem. The entire point of federated is to have many small instances and share the load.

    Lemmy.world decided to accept more than 100k users. Ok fine, but the rest of the instances don’t have this problem whatsoever. We actually want more users on our instances.

    And I knew this would happen. I was watching it grow and I knew eventually it would be a question about how to finance it, and I knew users would talk as if it’s a problem for Lemmy itself. It’s not, it’s a problem for Lemmy.world.

    I mean sure, if it’s possible to only have ads for Lemmy.world users… Then go ahead and watch your ads. But I don’t think the rest of the instances want that experience.

    DrNeurohax, in exploding-heads are infiltrating our discussions
    DrNeurohax avatar

    I'm all for free speech, but if the fediverse is going to have ANY chance of catching on, new users can't be bumping into Nazis and the like. The main on-boarding instances need to be akin to network TV - safe for pretty much everyone. From there they should be able to opt-in to more contentious communities. If that means a tiered system, so be it.

    Have you ever turned on the TV to a positive commentary over the display of goosestepping twats? No. And if you did so within the first few channel flips, you'd just say, "I guess TV isn't for me." You don't have a big free speech debate in your head. There's no middle ground. It's amazing that they're so universally reviled that they are the default bad guy in every form of media. Why? Because everyone knows the universal rule - Nazis can fuck alllll the way off. It even runs past THAT goal post straight on to being illegal in the home of the movement. There is no bigger, "Whoa. We reeeally fucked up," than that.

    As for other harassment, it has pretty much the same effect. Everyone knows that shit is out there if they look for it. The people coming here to compete for space in our latrines aren't worth having. If anything, we should be sending them back to Reddit.

    I've seen a lot of refreshing, civil, reasonable discussion since moving here, to the point where I almost feel bad for not thanking someone for thanking me. It's almost like the entire community is recovering from social media PTSD. It's not about being fragile snowflakes. If anything, it's the exact opposite, with no internal dialogue beyond, "Oh, it's this? If I stay here I'll end up dead or in jail, and this isn't worth either. Bye."

    Usually, new platforms have a few months before the garbage starts to accumulate, but everything here has been moving at a much faster clip. There isn't a ton of content here yet (and almost no OC), so interaction will make it or break it. I suspect we have a month, at most, before "free speech" turns to "open hate" and the platform dies.

    LostCause, (edited ) in exploding-heads are infiltrating our discussions

    Yeah I saw a controversy and blocked them a while ago, I lost family members to Q antiscience bullshit so I ain‘t going to deal with anything like it online. Only thing is I don‘t know if kbin instance block hides the users too and stops me from interacting with them? I really don‘t want anything to do with these guys.

    crowsby, in r/The_Donald now on Lemmy (edit: not anymore)
    crowsby avatar

    OP may come across a little alarmist, but it's really easy for online communities to become Nazi bars if the admins aren't carefully weeding out the ne'er-do-wells. Especially in places with open signups. Taking a hands-off approach and simply hoping that everyone is going to be a mature adult and behave themselves is effectively voting to surrender the site to assholes.

    And yeah, they follow "the rules", and free speech and all that, until they don't. The thing to keep in mind is that these are not folks who, as a community, are interested in engaging in good-faith discussion. They are looking for a platform to spread disinformation and troll the libz, and any platform that facilitates it is also complicit.


    Actively purging communities of reactionaries is pretty important and the hands-off attitude that some Free Speech Warriors inherited from Reddit advocate for is only going to spread reaction. If they care so much about Free Speech, they can go back to their pedophile website and talk about how r/jailbait needed to be kept up for the sake of free speech.

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