Deferated from hexbear.net

Sorry (🍁) we did this without making a post, but after receiving several complaints we defederated from hexbear.net yesterday.

Here’s a few quick examples of poor conduct by hexbear users:

They warned their users to behave themselves, but that didn’t work: hexbear.net/post/280770?scrollToComments=false

Please read and respect the rules of the community instance in which you are posting/commenting. Please try to keep the dirtbag lib-dunking to hexbear itself. Do not follow the Chapo Rules of Posting, instead try to engage utilizing informed rhetoric with sources to dismantle western propaganda. Posting the western atrocity propaganda and pig poop balls is hilarious but will pretty quickly get you banned and if enough of us do it defederated. Realize that you are a representative of the hexbear instance when you post on other instances.

ICastFist,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

Not directly affected here (i’m at a different instance), but it’s pretty easy to spot their users, they behave like it’s 4chan or some shit discord server, stickers everywhere. No wonder reasons 2 and 3 are spot on.

Posting (…) pig poop balls is hilarious

Only if you’re a fucking idiot

HexBear4ever,

deleted_by_moderator

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  • preussischblau,
    @preussischblau@lemmy.ca avatar

    Their post about our defederation is absolutely unhinged, I must say – top keks if you can handle reading it. Seriously, though, I am quite shocked at the amount of vitriol on their instance; being a leftist myself, I don’t really understand the point of being mean to everyone that they would presumably want to help via their politics.

    “Oh, you live in a Western country and are subject to late-stage capitalist horrors? Let me save you – wait, you don’t agree with me? Then go screw yourself, good luck in the revolution.”

    Certainly education would be the solution, overcome the Stockholm syndrome?

    Oh well, good riddance.

    HexBear4ever,

    deleted_by_moderator

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  • preussischblau,
    @preussischblau@lemmy.ca avatar

    Ummmm actually bestie, you have to join a super duper extra special communist party with fries and ketchup-characteristics, not just a “communist party,” or else you’re basically just a liberal.

    pinkdrunkenelephants,

    They genuinely believe the dumb shit they say. Successfully indoctrinated cultists ready to be pulled by their puppet strings by anyone with the savvy and the need/desire

    EhForumUser, (edited )

    They genuinely believe the dumb shit they say.

    It is unlikely that anyone believes what they say, as why would you waste time talking about something you believe in? You already believe it. Your mind has been made. There is absolutely nothing more that can be said. Discussion is only interesting when you can learn something new, which means exploring the things you don’t (yet) believe in.

    There is good reason why every comment isn’t: “Hay guys, did you know that 1+1=2!?!?” – something you no doubt believe in. What are you going to learn by bringing it up again and again? Not much. There is no value in exploring what you believe.

    When someone says something, they are seeking more information to validate an idea they have. With sufficient validation the idea brought forward may transform into a belief, but that transition requires exploration. Talk is how we explore ideas.

    If you watch people, the pattern becomes quite apparent: Once something becomes a belief, interest is lost, and the talk about that subject will fade. They move on to something new that they want to find validation in. Sometimes people will get stuck on an idea that isn’t believable. This is where you find conspiracy theorists and the like, where people build up a whole persona around an idea that they keep failing to validate.

    pinkdrunkenelephants,

    Yet you believe all that, and here you are.

    Point proven.

    EhForumUser, (edited )

    Well, no, I’m not settled on it. It is an idea, but it has not made it to belief status. I’m talking about it, after all. If it were a belief, what value proposition would there be in such an exchange?

    pinkdrunkenelephants,

    You clearly think there is value in it, because you believe in it, want me to believe it too, and you are trying to convince me it’s right. If you wanted to convince yourself, you wouldn’t be talking, you’d be meditating. Yet here you are, arguing with me about it.

    It’s okay for people to believe what they say. Whatever it is you think will be true if people believe what they say but don’t want to be true, it doesn’t matter. Someday you’ll see that.

    EhForumUser,

    and you are trying to convince me it’s right.

    I’m not sure I see the logic in that. Of what value would there be in convincing you that it is right? I have no agency over your brain. It means nothing to me. I wouldn’t try to convince a stone that I am right and the only difference between you and a stone is that you can speak back, hopefully offering knowledge when you do.

    It’s okay for people to believe what they say.

    It’s okay, but what’s the value proposition? It takes work to say things. The brain expects payment for the work it does. Knowledge can be sufficient payment, but if you have a belief no more knowledge can be acquired. It is final. I’m not receiving cash, a hug, anything. So, what is it that I have overlooked?

    JennySmiles,

    top keks

    being a leftist myself

    preussischblau

    liking military history

    X: [Doubt]

    None of your comments within the last 2 month point into any direction like that.

    Just a warning Preußisch Blau, the colour and name, is mostly used by what in the US would be Alt-Right people who try to link themselves to the German Empire (sometimes as substitute for the Nazi regime). Using 4chans kek hints at you being aware of that.

    If you want to educate yourself and really are German as you claim you can visit our museum to learn more.

    preussischblau,
    @preussischblau@lemmy.ca avatar

    Firstly, there is no need to warn me and be all condescending. Secondly, there are many reasons I like the name; military history is indeed one of them, but that does not mean I worship the historical nation of Prussia – I am not a monarchist. Thirdly, I do not live in the US and couldn’t care less about people who think American politics are global politics. Fourth, I do not need to constantly do a song and dance online to be a leftist. Fifth, kek comes to English from Korean via WoW and rightoids do not have a monopoly on language.

    “If you want to educate yourself and really are German as you claim you can visit our museum to learn more.” What museum? What do I need to be educated on?

    DerisionConsulting,

    Preußisch

    Prussian Blue being used as a user by someone also saying “top keks” rings the same for me as it does for @JennySmiles

    The Leuchter report was an inaccurate study that was trying to disprove that there were gas chambers at Auschwitz, to try to help Nazis in court. It did this by claiming that because there wasn’t any Prussian blue, that there couldn’t’ve been cyanide in the chambers/showers, since Prussian Blue contains cyanide.
    This is like saying that because you don’t have a cake, your kitchen has never had an eggs.

    But of course, when the walls of were tested cyanide was found.

    JennySmiles,

    Thanks for your posts. Sadly OP is not listening and is only trying to deflect (and defend 4chan implicitly). But at least some other people might be more cautious about them now. Since they are at most an early 20s student makes clear why they are so jovial about those things.

    preussischblau,
    @preussischblau@lemmy.ca avatar

    Can’t believe I need to say this but yes the Holocaust happened, and it was bad.

    Prussian blue is also used in medicine, did you know that? I am a pharmacy student. There’s quite a few reasons I like the name. Holocaust denial is not one of them. I also watched the Myles Power video.

    Also I’ll never understand why non-rightoids can’t use kek, it comes from Korean to English via WoW.

    DerisionConsulting,

    Not sure who Myles Powers is, but I am glad that you’re not a garbage person.

    The reason why non-rightoids don’t use “top kek” is because it’s from 4chan. “kek” is from Wow, but “top kek” isn’t.

    Much like other phrases and symbols (like the Celtic cross, odal rune, swastika), once the racists use it to identify themselves, the non-racists shy away from using it.

    preussischblau,
    @preussischblau@lemmy.ca avatar

    Myles Powers is a youtuber who has a pretty popular set of videos regarding the Leuchter report.

    Also, I’m still not sure I care it’s from 4chan given how benign the actual etymology is, comparing it to the swastika is honestly pretty reductive if not outright offensive imo, but whatever.

    dmrzl,

    Reasonable. Makes me consider switching instances…

    krolden,
    @krolden@lemmy.ml avatar

    Did they do any of this spamming on your instance? They’ve kept most of that to their own instance but they definitely dont back down when someone from another instance says some dumbass shit.

    Stupid move you should really feel bad. I feel bad for your users.

    init,

    I might have to make a new account here. I made a comment and then edited it to address a Q_Anon adjacent hexbear user that replied to me. It’s really strange. They say they are extreme leftists on their sidebar, but their politics are anti-Western, which puts them essentially with NK, China, and Russia, which are an authoritarian brand of communist or fascist that prosecutes and imprisons trans, LGBTQ+, etc,.

    At this point I think they are simply trying to get reactions and shit stir for lulz. Getting told I should die because I corrected a Hexbear’s use of misinformation is surreal. I never thought an extreme Leftist or five would openly and brazenly support a regime that literally made supporting LGBTQ+ stuff a crime only a year or two ago. It’s wild.

    roman,

    Where you hear extreme or radical anything don’t think they are just further along on a line. Most often they break the line and turn 90 degrees into another dimension into delusions from baby eating cabals to lizard people secretly running the government.

    Trying to apply logic to their thinking is not a useful exercise as the foundations to their thinking isn’t based on logic. It’s based on emotion.

    Chunk,

    I never thought an extreme Leftist or five would openly and brazenly support a regime that literally made supporting LGBTQ+ stuff a crime only a year or two ago. It’s wild.

    Your view of what Leftist means is extremely biased within the modern American context if you are surprised by that. There are lots of definitions of Leftist and the 2023 American Left-wing definition is not the only one.

    init,

    You’re right, it’s been a learning experience.

    JennySmiles, (edited )

    Edit after having looked into it: init is a liar, they are a US soldier and were attacked for that reason, more in the next comments

    Which Q Anon adjacent user? Link would be nice, if you are speaking truthful it would great if you could do a link, but name is fine, too.

    Most leftists are anti-Western, has to do with the US's hegemonial role during the Cold War and its support of genocide, murder, torture and violence against socialist sympathizers and coups i.e. in South America. As the Jakarta Method describes well.

    Getting told I should die because I corrected a Hexbear’s use of misinformation is surreal.

    Do you have a link for that as well?

    init,

    It’s all in response to this comment.

    JennySmiles,

    Then you are a liar, which is common for US soldiers.

    You being a soldier is the reason the people flung those things at you. Which is more understandable, judging the actions of US and Canadian troops in Iraq as example.

    I just want you to know as a member us military I hope you lose everything and end up drunk and homeless without ever being able to sleep. I’m glad that this is statistically likely.

    Is also quite clear that it is about the job you do. It is funny how a literal US military government employee influences the discussion on de-federation without that being a relevant point.

    Collateral damage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYTxuW2vmzk (which you are not allowed to watch, since that would breach your regulations) Shows civilians being targeted.

    JennySmiles,

    Even more:

    Your link did also not show me the user is related to Q in any way. This again makes you a propagandist.

    They say they are extreme leftists on their sidebar, but their politics are anti-Western, which puts them essentially with NK, China, and Russia

    This is a common US military talking point, which you being a US soldier fits well. Equating anti-Westernism with "horrible regimes" (that is the dogwhistle you use) would mean that most academics and political scientists are supporting North Korea? You are a shill, one literally paid by the US military's intelligence.

    zephyreks,

    Isn’t a decent chunk of it just being anti-US? They were happier with the US and EU being two (closely related) poles in a multipolar world. They’re much more strongly against the US and EU coupling together.

    The EU has become increasingly dependent on the US… That’s dangerous.

    init,

    I fully agree with EU dependency being extremely dangerous.

    pinkdrunkenelephants,

    They are, who we call tankies. Propaganda spreading scumbags here to wreck communities and cause discord and chaos for Russia and China among other countries trying to wreak havoc. They’re doing it because of the Ukraine war. Block them and do not use instances that federate with them.

    init,

    I appreciate the advice and will probably do so.

    Riven,
    @Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Yea they’re insane. They brigade any post about China or Russia to defend them with some whataboutism and anyone who dares oppose them gets called a bigot because they pretend to be LGBT friendly. Just look at some of the pronouns they choose to use. I understand some people might prefer more unique pronouns like ze/zem and whatnot and that’s fine but they’re just straight up trolling by using stuff like comrade/tank giving our LGBT friends a bad name. Its more obvious they’re trolls because they defend very anti LGBT countries while pretending to belong to the community.

    jordanlund,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.one avatar

    I said this in the last thread announcing defederation from them…

    Freedom of speech doesn’t mean an obligation to listen.

    Good for you! I saw some of their posts pop up in my feed and had to block them too. Just too much edgelord stupidity.

    mojo,

    Well their instance is definitely not the ones to cry “free speech”, they’re not right wingers. They just think it’s funny lol.

    krolden,
    @krolden@lemmy.ml avatar

    It is funny

    HellAwaits,

    I wish all instances would. They’re the most disingenuous and stupid users I’ve ever seen. They might as well just fling their own poop at people’s houses because that’s the level of value they’re bringing to the internet discourse.

    Snowpix,
    @Snowpix@lemmy.ca avatar

    You made the right decision. Hexbear users aren’t here to discuss anything in good faith, they’re here to brigade and harass. That’s all I’ve seen from them ever since they federated.

    IronKrill,

    I checked out the instance and at least half the comments on federation posts were just plotting how to annoy other communities, not splitting their “force” too wide, and taking bets on how long until they’re defederated. Not worth our time.

    Wahots,
    @Wahots@pawb.social avatar

    I saw some reallllly really sketchy takes from some @hexbear accounts on the fediverse, but my instance had already defederated from them without much fanfare, so I didn’t know exactly what their deal was (our admin has a really reasonable head on his shoulders.)

    This clears up a lot.

    troyunrau,
    @troyunrau@lemmy.ca avatar

    I’ve mixed feelings about this. But I support the admins, generally, and will assume they are acting in good faith.

    This is sort of like an email provider getting their domain blacklisted. Yes, it hurts some legitimate users, but they are a source of spam and crap and the nuclear option is legitimate.

    some_guy,
    some_guy avatar

    You are welcome to hop on over to any instance that isn’t defederated or even hexbear itself!

    If you have mixed feelings about removing these pieces of trash, you’re either a piece of trash too or a useful idiot.

    ram,
    @ram@lemmy.ca avatar

    kbin.social

    JennySmiles,

    these pieces of trash

    Wonder why this is not seen as trolling and personal attacks, is it cause it is aimed into the right direction @mods?

    MaxMouseOCX,

    All I’m seeing is instance owners defederaring others for various reasons… Know what we’ve got here? Too many cooks.

    Ejh3k,

    What’s wrong with hating landlords?

    lud,

    Calling for execution of anyone seems a bit extreme to me.

    Ejh3k,

    Gotta start somewhere.

    Steeve,

    That’s not my first typical go to personally

    Anonymousllama,

    Probably not by whipping out the guillotine. There’s a few reasonable steps before that.

    ram,
    @ram@lemmy.ca avatar

    I think we’ve taken a number of reasonable steps over the last 200 years.

    zephyreks,

    This is why our rights are constantly being eroded.

    avidamoeba,
    @avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

    Taxing, regulation, confiscation are all places we could start from that won’t create the problem of having to erase parts of our history so we can live with it.

    astral_avocado,

    No calls for violence seems like a simple rule. And not every landlord is greedy mcshitstain with 50 properties, many of them are a single family with their starter home rented out, or a couple renting out their extra room.

    JennySmiles,

    In Berlin the stock exchange listed property companies own more than 20% of the flats, big corporations/large private investors own more than 20%, too, then there are smaller still very profit oriented companies, as well as smaller investors, basically 50-60% of all flats (and that amounts to more than 90% of all newly let out flats) are controlled by them, which means that to focus on small landlords is pretty irrelevant. Give me a specific city and specific ownership structure (which works well in some European countries in which plot information, company information and sometimes individual income information are online and open).

    "Many" in small landlords means too few to have market price changing effects. Even small landlords do take the worth increases of their plots which are related to things outside their control i.e. state investments, network effects etc. even the small ones take in renters so that the renters finance their mortgages. So they are not really different, though they don't have the economic power to influence politics as much and abuse the court systems as much.

    ArcaneSlime,

    Communists don’t care for that distinction, they believe all landlords (even non-exploitative ones like you mentioned) are inherrently exploitative and therefore deserving of death. Yes, this applies to you even if you just rent out a room, but don’t worry, money won’t exist and everything will be free!

    JennySmiles,

    I am far more right than socialists and communists and yet, what you say is something that you wouldn't get marks for in the exams you have to take for our courses.

    ArcaneSlime,

    “Practice V Theory” I suppose. Looks good on paper when written by one smart german dude 175yr ago, works poorly when implimented by anyone else who’s tried it (oh right “it’s never been tried”).

    Seriously, poke around these two communities and next time you see calls for murder ask what happens to the landlords that aren’t corporations after the revolution, just see if they don’t try to convince you why all landlords are actually deserving of death. Fantasy V Reality.

    Edit: in fact, you don’t have to go far, this comment is also a reply to the one you replied to, in which he asserts (albeit thinly veiled) that they don’t want to kill “innocent people” just “landlords, all landlords, as none of them are innocent by default cause landlord.” See?

    JennySmiles,

    Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=192&v=KNGIyUnLX_0&feature=youtu.be

    However it is much easier to sell/convert your assets than it is to give up a political leaning. In my country the death penalty is not allowed, however in the US it is. As long as that is the case any argument that death can't be the answer to crimes (and this is what they demand) can't really be done.

    but if wishing execution (a penalty under law)

    This is legalism.

    Besides during Covid we did see how eager Corporations and Governments were with letting people die, so 5 years ago I would've taken your argument with more seriousness.

    All in all your arguments fall flat with what they tell. Do I think that during revolutions people might die? Yes. I do believe that the use of violence by states is something they have to do to remain states. They use violence even for internal matters that are about shares of profit of society (political economy) and kill people.

    Does this instance's want for civility clash with their instance's post? Yes. Do their posters do act uncivil on this instance? Not all, but some, which could be banned. The admins take a quicker approach that targets innocent posters, that use of force (control over the instance) is due to the admins quasi-monopoly on admin powers, too. So ultimately it was a decision of the admins.

    ArcaneSlime,

    In my country the death penalty is not allowed, however in the US it is.

    In certain circumstances.* Here is the wiki article on US Capital Punishment. Note: “It is usually applied for only the most serious crimes, like aggravated murder.” So you and that other joker are telling me that “charging rent” is just like beating multiple women’s heads in with a tire iron and fucking the corpses (what got Ted Bundy put to death)? Even if you see entering a mutually agreed upon contract in which a homeowner charges rent to maintain the dwelling you pay rent for, as inherently exploitative, which again is debatable, one does not get put to death for exploitation, the get at maximum a prison sentence. You really don’t have to look far to find these clowns, you are one.

    This is legalism.

    Ah yes, so Law=Right? Guess we need to start murdering anyone who breaks the smallest law huh? Sounds like a good plan to me. So, if say Georgia makes it legal to execute trans people is that ok? No? But “It’s legalism,” like you said! OH and that means slavery and the holocaust which were legal were also cool?

    OOOORRRR murdering people is wrong even with the backing of the government. Personally I’m on that side, but good to know you disagree I suppose.

    Besides during Covid we did see how eager Corporations and Governments were with letting people die, so 5 years ago I would’ve taken your argument with more seriousness

    Whether you want to believe it or not, nonaction is not the same as putting the bullet in someone’s brain pan yourself. If you see them as the same you should feel real bad about all those starving kids in third world countries you’re personally killing right now.

    Does this instance’s want for civility clash with their instance’s post? Yes. Do their posters do act uncivil on this instance? Not all, but some, which could be banned.

    This isn’t about your instance, this is about “this is what these people actually believe.” You’re following conmen.

    JennySmiles,

    Enough people in the US were killed for crimes way smaller what you describe, even people that we know were innocent and there are still people facing the death penalty that are innocent.

    However unhoused people face a much higher risk to death, systematic coercion for rent and what is combined with it is coercing with the threat of not having a safe place during catastrophes, yes that is more than a small crime (if you take their position). It would be more akin to running organized crime.

    My solution for that isn't what they suggest, but don't take the worst possible interpretation about them, then you will show more what you think about them.

    Ah yes, so Law=Right

    You need to sit down on a bench and listen to some introductory philosophy and politics lectures.

    If you agree that killing (which isn't murder, the latter being a legal distinction) people is wrong what did you do to stop the people dying from Covid, dying from the climate catastrophe, etc.?

    1. Every year, roughly 13,000 homeless people die in the US. Approximately 2.4% of homeless persons die every year — about 13,000 out of half a million. When you think about it, homelessness is a significant health risk for individuals.
    ArcaneSlime,

    Enough people in the US were killed for crimes way smaller what you describe, even people that we know were innocent and there are still people facing the death penalty that are innocent.

    Even if the example was hyperbolic, people don’t get executed for explotation. Prison maybe, execution no. Also, all of this is why I don’t support the death penalty and think it should be abolished, we aren’t talking about that so I was trying not to mention it but it’s like an itch I have to scratch.

    However unhoused people face a much higher risk to death, systematic coercion for rent and what is combined with it is coercing with the threat of not having a safe place during catastrophes, yes that is more than a small crime (if you take their position). It would be more akin to running organized crime.

    If you actually believe this, are you running a homeless shelter out of your place? You could fit a few on the floor and couch, we’re in a record heat wave right now, have you let any in or are you murdering them?

    I think people should be able to do what they want with their property, I also think they should volunteer what they can to help people. I don’t have a lot of money but I work at the food bank when I can, what are you doing for homeless people, advocating for other people’s deaths for doing the same thing you are?

    My solution for that isn’t what they suggest,

    Ok so we recognize that their solution is to kill landlords regardless of backing by state

    but don’t take the worst possible interpretation about them, then you will show more what you think about them.

    …yeah, they say they want to kill landlords. There’s one way I can take that. If they don’t want to kill landlords they should stop saying they do and trying to convince me they deserve it. Frankly all that does is show me who they are, and I base what I think about them on what they chose to project. This one is not on me here pal.

    You need to sit down on a bench and listen to some introductory philosophy and politics lectures.

    Funny sidenote, I am sitting on a bench. Small world huh? No lectures rn though just arguing with you.

    If you agree that killing (which isn’t murder, the latter being a legal distinction) people is wrong what did you do to stop the people dying from Covid, dying from the climate catastrophe, etc.?

    I believe “killing” requires “action.” Say you hear a knock on your door, someone begging to be let in, and you decide you don’t want to risk your family and let them in but you do call the police, and that person ends up being murdered by their attacker. Who killed them? By your logic, your inaction was at least as responsible as the actual murderer’s action for the death. Had you let them in maybe they wouldn’t have died. Say though you let them in, and put yourself and your family at risk, turns out the murderer gets in and kills a of you. That then is also your fault, because you opened the door letting him in. In fact that is an action, not even an inaction, but in my view in all of the above scenarios the actual murderer is responsible.

    Here’s another one. There’s a homeless man on your street, winter is coming. You don’t let him sleep on your couch, not even in your garage. He freezes to death one day. Did you kill that man? I say no, hypothermia did. By your logic you did.

    What did you do to stop covid deaths, or climate deaths? Sounds like you’re a killer bud, by your logic everyone is a killer.

    Every year, roughly 13,000 homeless people die in the US. Approximately 2.4% of homeless persons die every year — about 13,000 out of half a million. When you think about it, homelessness is a significant health risk for individuals.

    Yes, I wouldn’t reccomend it but it isn’t my fault, nor yours.

    avidamoeba,
    @avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

    This is about as garbage take as the ones being discussed.

    ArcaneSlime,

    Well, that’s what they always tell me they believe, sorry your representatives are poor ones I suppose.

    jerkface,
    @jerkface@lemmy.ca avatar

    Yeah, you sound like you were really receptive to what they were trying to say, I’m sure you didn’t colour it at all…

    ArcaneSlime,

    Oh well of course they give the option of just doing what they say and completely restructuring society to stay alive in most cases, but imo that doesn’t count, I think they’re really just using that as an excuse.

    jerkface,
    @jerkface@lemmy.ca avatar

    I hope this is doing something for your emotional needs but it’s got nothing to do with anyone else. Have fun, chief.

    ArcaneSlime,

    I just can’t align myself with ideologies like that, it is what it is. Don’t worry, I usually have fun.

    jerkface,
    @jerkface@lemmy.ca avatar

    I’m not commenting on your misalignment with the ideology, but rather your intellectual dishonesty. You can’t even think about “ideologies like that” without twisting your own mind up and telling yourself a bunch of lies to make yourself feel better.

    I’m not saying communism is good or bad. I’m saying: you don’t know because you are unable to examine it honestly and rationally.

    ArcaneSlime,

    Yeah, talk to a few people on hexbear or lemmygrad and tell me I’m being intellectually dishonest. People on lemmy call for the death of landlords constantly, go ahead and ask thrm to specify and see if one of them makes the distinction. They always say “she’s perpetuating the capitalist system so she’s not inocent, and private property and money won’t exist after the revolution so she can forfeit her rental property or get killed, and she won’t need the income because everything will be free since there is no money and you instead own the product of your labor. At least she gets to keep the house she lives in if she capitulates!” Every fucking time. I didn’t make it up out of nowhere my dude, “I learned it from watching you.”

    Templa,

    You clearly don’t know what you are talking about

    ArcaneSlime,

    No u.

    Zyansheep,

    They don’t deserve execution, they deserve a Georgist-style Land Value Tax!

    ram,
    @ram@lemmy.ca avatar

    All landlords for profit are exploitative. All profit is exploitative. You’re literally on the piracy instance, why would you wanna suck off capitalists? lmao

    Sturgist,
    @Sturgist@lemmy.ca avatar

    This is actually the Canadian instance, you seem a bit lost bud.

    ram,
    @ram@lemmy.ca avatar

    I am Canadian lmao

    Sturgist,
    @Sturgist@lemmy.ca avatar

    You’re literally on the piracy instance, why would you wanna suck off capitalists?

    Eh, maybe I misunderstood what you were saying here

    ram,
    @ram@lemmy.ca avatar

    I think you did. Person I was responding to had dbzer0 as their home instance, which was made with the express purpose of giving piracy on lemmy a (somewhat) dedicated home.

    Sturgist,
    @Sturgist@lemmy.ca avatar

    Gotcha, I had thought you meant the instance this thread is in. Your comment makes more sense now.

    ArcaneSlime,

    “Capitalists” aren’t some all powerful boogeyman stealing your essence in the night, especially when you broaden the category from “actually evil corporations” to pensioners or families renting out their starter home, or some guy renting out a room. I don’t feel it’s right to slaughter the nice old woman who rented us the punk house back in the day simply for trying to afford her meds in retirement, no. Sorry, but we’re just not gonna get me to agree that killing innocent people is “good.”

    ram,
    @ram@lemmy.ca avatar

    No, they’re all powerful boogeymen in control of our entire society who have us sell our bodies just to live. They do all this in daylight where it can be seen, and are such clever con artists are to make fools think it’s good and normal to do so.

    we’re just not gonna get me to agree that killing innocent people is “good.”

    I never claimed that, nor do I wish to kill the guilty, but if wishing execution (a penalty under law) of an oppressive class is not “killing innocent people”.

    But go off

    ArcaneSlime,

    Yes yes my landlady was part of some secret cabal that runs the world. I’ve heard this one before, next you’re gonna tell me it’s because she’s in league with the reptile jews or some nonsense, it’s all the same.

    ram,
    @ram@lemmy.ca avatar

    Bruh

    ArcaneSlime,

    No u.

    calavera,

    entire society who have us sell our bodies just to live.

    And when this didn’t happen? Because on USSR you could go to jail if you didn’t work.

    On every society, if you want to enjoy things made by it and not do your part, you are just a parasite, just like the capitalists you are against. So maybe you are a capitalist wanna be

    ram,
    @ram@lemmy.ca avatar

    Who said anything about the USSR being good?

    Funny that you go to the old “you’re just jealous and that’s why you hate capitalism so much” pov though. I have no interest in your bad faith arguments, so I’m not gonna engage further than this. Google what arguments people use against that or something if that’ll make you feel better.

    calavera,

    I’m not talking about jealousy, I’m talking about people who just want to parasite other peoples work while they(you) think work is something made only by bourgeoisie

    JennySmiles,

    It is interesting that you conflate two things, like "no violence" (ignoring the violence that landlords, yes even small ones, do) and then also having the urge to defend and discriminate landlords with good ones implicitly not beeing greedy and single families. However what you wish for in the world is not what I hear when I go to the pub on the corner, there I will hear calls for violence against quite a few groups, trans people, women, minorities, marginalized, unhoused, politicians, leftists, antifascists, activistsm BIPoCs, neurodivergent, unhoused, etc. etc. plenty of times and fast.

    I just wish people like you would try to enforce your "no violence" rules in real life as openly as you do it here. Of course I would also urge you to see violence in denying people healthcare or housing, education, food etc, too.

    astral_avocado,

    Man sounds like you should move if you hear people threatening violence regularly against all those groups at your local pub

    ignoring the violence that landlords, yes even small ones, do

    Are we actually talking about actual bodily harm or is this a new made up definition you just pulled out of your ass

    JennySmiles,

    I see, you have never visited an institute of higher learning from the inside. Even reactionaries like Carl Schmitt would agree with my sentence, however you lack the political and sociological education to understand that. In short: Read up on violence and ask your friends who studied what violence means, especially how violence and monopoly on violence into the inner and into the outer works, ask what Weber's definition was, too.

    pulled out of your ass

    I would like the mods to ban/defederate with this user, they break civility quite a bit.

    Sturgist,
    @Sturgist@lemmy.ca avatar

    I’ll give you a hint, it rhymes with pull sit

    archomrade, (edited )

    I’d argue that landlords of all types are backed by the violence of the state. That a lord or lady doesn’t themselves toss you out and drag you off to jail isn’t really a meaningful distinction to the person being forcibly removed from their home.

    Firemyth,

    The funny part is that in one breathe you utter the fallacy to your own argument. Being forcibly removed from whose home again?

    The one you paid the mortgage, down-payment, continuing maintenance, property taxes? Cause if that describes your home- guess what- you are a homeowner and cant be forced out of your home. If that’s not describing the house you are living in… you are a tenant and market conditions dictate what the rent will be. Nobody is going to let to you at a loss.

    So whatever reason you have for not being a homeowner means SOMEONE ELSE has to provide a home for you to live in. Which no one is going to just give you for free.

    archomrade,

    Too bad home and house are different words, though I understand they do sound the same.

    Firemyth,

    So. You just didn’t understand the point that you don’t own it? If you bothered to read I also made the distinction.

    archomrade,

    Look, I can tell you’re really trying, you seem really excited. But honestly it feels pointless and a little sad arguing with you. Private and personal ownership are related but different, id maybe start there if you wanted to debate the merits of each.

    I hope you enjoy your time on here still

    Firemyth,

    Yes I’m sure it’s sad- everyone knows I’m right and the point is valid so there’s nothing for you to really debate. Instead you are going to make yourself feel better by acting smugly superior rather than actually addressing the argument itself. Again- yes very sad.

    JennySmiles,

    Even Quine, Russel and Asimov wouldn't talk with them, as they are ignorant and actively anti-intellectual. So I think with more modern conceptions like private and personal properties (even the non-Marxist ones) you make the correct points, but before they are registered they are already strolling around pigeons playing chess.

    JennySmiles,

    Read up on the concepts of ownership, property, belongings, usage etc. you have a French/Roman tradition for millenia which discriminates those rights. That you are uneducated is hardly archomrade's fault.

    You also ignore the monopoly of violence which is the state's and of course there is usage of violence even if you argue it is moral or can be legal. To think what legal is moral and what is legal is without violence would support genocides, colonialist murder of millions, their expropriation of land, goods, and children and legitimize atrocities of ultra nationalist governments.

    The argument in short is: To ask yourself what you need to know to understand archomrade's points.

    Firemyth,

    Omg. Pseudo-intellect is the worst intellect. The one thing you are right about- there is definitely no point arguing with you. I’d advise making something yourself and then trying to apply your principles when someone tells you what you can and can’t do with it because they believe it’s immoral.

    TotallyHuman,

    Nothing’s wrong with hating landlords. I hate landlords. Lots of people hate landlords. There’s a difference between calling for economic reform and calling for mass executions.

    zephyreks,

    Dude’s posting on c/canada, which is never going to do mass executions. It’s a joke, even if it landed poorly.

    ram,
    @ram@lemmy.ca avatar

    I support the move of the admins, but of the points they made, this point was the one that I was like “eh I mean, that’s fine tho”. People are tired and civil unrest is growing. I think it’s fine to try and vent that even if it means punching (or shooting) up. It might be unsavoury, but broadly I don’t have an issue with it in small amounts.

    stillwater,

    In isolation, that one just read like a tongue in cheek comment to me.

    BloodForTheBloodGod,

    some landlords might have to go but there are degrees. Speculating in housing is unethical, but a small land leech isn’t some kulag who needs to be ended.

    Also, property managers, really? They are just wage workers.

    Zyansheep,

    cough cough georgism cough cough

    Firemyth,

    That you call them small land leeches really speaks for itself

    BloodForTheBloodGod,

    That they are doing unproductive unwork? And shouldn’t continue doing that? Sure.

    Renting out a house is unethical, sure. But it doesn’t warrant death. Their social and economic situation is NOTHING like the feudal and near feudal land lords of pre revolutionary China and Russia.

    Also, here’s your reminder that Mao’s parents were landlords.

    Firemyth,

    Who the fuck are you to tell me what I can and cannot do with my property that I built and/or bought with my own hands and work? Here’s a reminder you are a moron. Hitler was an artist you brain dead loon. That you feel there’s some mora failingl element to me making my home available to someone not completely for free just shows how far out in space you are. Get bent fucknugget.

    BloodForTheBloodGod,

    To be clear you don’t deserve to exploit others, and BUY is hugely different to BUILT.

    But unless you join a rightist paramilitary death squad in defense of “your” property “rights”, I’m not about to be cool with someone killing you.

    Firemyth,

    How am i exploiting others again? By giving them a place to live because they can’t afford to buy a place of their own? Someone is going to own the property- no one is going to build for free. At least with me they get a stable rent and a price a couple hundred below market. How the fuck do you make that balance out to “evil”

    BloodForTheBloodGod,

    It’s exploitation, because housing is a right that shouldn’t be monetized.

    But you do have cause to see this as fine. Exactly why hurting you is extremist, authoritarian nonsense in my book.

    And don’t worry too much. The whole idea of revolution is that no one should be unhoused. You’ll have a place to go.

    Just don’t join a death squad.

    Firemyth,

    great. so how are you planning on making that happen? by taking my property and giving it to someone? i mean i literally built my first house. so i can’t keep it just because i’m not living in it? it should remain empty? what exactly is your plan man? Maybe YOU should not join a death squad?

    BloodForTheBloodGod,

    If you don’t live there, then -

    Yes, housing should be held in common. Don’t worry though. The whole idea of no one should be homeless or starve applies to you, too.

    And if you live there, built it, should be yours. But rent is parasitic and has to go as a concept.

    JennySmiles,

    They are paraphrasing Adam Smith's core work there buddy.

    Firemyth,

    And?

    Maajmaaj, (edited )

    Honestly, they helped me figure out that I’m leftist and not liberal, but if there’s that much trolling coming from them, and it bothers the majority of y’all, then I totally get defederating them. I do not agree with their views on Russia anyway.

    Edit: downvoting isn’t going to change the fact that I’m not a fan of capitalism. That’s all I mean by “I’m leftist, and not liberal” it’s the simpleist distinction between the two.

    Double edit: thank you to the folks who responded, for giving me additional perspective on the leftist diaspora(?) The “fanning out” about Russia and CCP was quite off putting and I couldn’t mentally reconcile it.

    HellAwaits,

    There are plenty of leftist groups that don’t side with the East on everything. I’ve seen plenty of leftists look at China and Russia with ire. As a leftist, I hate authoritarianism and it seems like HexBear users deep-throat China and Russia’s boats.

    Sturgist,
    @Sturgist@lemmy.ca avatar

    From what I’ve seen, they may claim to be far left, but act more like far right.

    And I get that if you go far enough one way you come out on the other end.

    jerkface,
    @jerkface@lemmy.ca avatar

    I think that’s just a misleading artifact of trying to describe everything with one dimension.

    Sturgist,
    @Sturgist@lemmy.ca avatar

    Fair enough

    zerofk,

    The far left and far right are often more similar than the names imply. This makes sense when you realise they are both fishing in the same pond of disgruntled people at the fringes of society (though of course not exclusively). For many, it is more about being angry at the world than it is about standing for either ideology.

    Sturgist,
    @Sturgist@lemmy.ca avatar

    Fair enough, hadn’t really thought of it that way before. Thanks for the insight.

    ThrowawayPermanente,

    Plenty of rightists also seem to have forgotten that Russia is their enemy.

    Templa,

    You can be a communist and be against Marxism-Leninism. They will just call you a liberal and a traitor that is siding with imperialism.

    YaaAsantewaa,

    How can anyone on the left even associate themselves with ML when neither China nor Russia allow LGBTQ+ to exist in their countries? I don’t understand ML at all

    I mean, here are just a few sources

    lgbtqnation.com/…/china-shuts-down-beijings-lgbt-…www.cnn.com/2022/12/05/europe/…/index.html

    And the bigotry and racism is something else too in both countries, it’s insane. There’s no defense for this

    hrw.org/…/covid-blackface-tv-chinas-racism-proble…www.cnn.com/2020/05/25/asia/…/index.html

    No one can really call themselves a “leftist” if extreme right-wing ideologies that the neo-nazis over here follow are what they condone

    zephyreks,

    Because economic left and social left are different things?

    MBM,

    Hexbear seems to have a lot of LGBTQ+ folk though

    Sturgist,
    @Sturgist@lemmy.ca avatar

    There’s also black guys in the Proud Boys, what’s your point?

    Snowpix,
    @Snowpix@lemmy.ca avatar

    And you can also be a leftist/socialist without supporting authoritarianism. They seem to have forgotten that, and gobble up CCP/Russian propaganda like it’s candy. They give reasonable socialists a bad rep. I consider myself leftist. But because I don’t support authoritariani regimes, that must mean I’m a dirty filthy liberal.

    Sturgist,
    @Sturgist@lemmy.ca avatar

    Man, I’d say I’m pretty left leaning, like Anarcho Syndaclist. That said what they’re doing isn’t doing anything but damage to their cause, worse it’s making them look like the whispy lipped basement trolls they are.

    I agree with them, in a way, that the US is a dangerous entity to world stability. Their habit of handwaving away the documented atrocities in NK, DPRC, Russia etc is just plain ridiculous. Just because the US isn’t the bastion of light, truth and fair justice in the world doesn’t mean that those who openly and directly oppose them fucking are!

    rab,

    Probably get banned for this comment but all of the rights we have were taken via violence. Nothing else is going to stop feudalism in this country except violence. That guy threatening landlords is, like it or not, correct

    Not that I want to go killing people, but that’s quite literally the only way change is made throughout all of human history

    BloodForTheBloodGod,

    Property managers are just wage workers.

    Read “Against the logic of the guillotine” perhaps

    MapleEngineer,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.ca avatar

    What childish nonsense. You have no absolute rights as a member of a society. Every right is limited and every law limits a right. Virtually none of those were passed through violence.

    rab,

    Do you not know how Canada became a country??

    If you think laws will be peacefully passed that grants housing to all Canadians you are delusional

    MapleEngineer,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.ca avatar

    156 years ago?

    Dude, it’s time to move on.

    rab,

    It’s time for a revolution actually

    MapleEngineer,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.ca avatar

    It’s time for change. We are a long, long way from revolution.

    hglman,

    Ill take that bet.

    MapleEngineer,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.ca avatar

    Ok…what’s the timeframe? 1 year? Complete revolution, right? Violent overthrow of the government, not just a lone wolf or another street shitting inflatable hot tub tantrum doesn’t count? $100. I’ll provide the details for an online escrow service.

    MapleEngineer,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.ca avatar

    Are we betting or what? I offered you the bet. Are you actually going to take me up on the offer or were you simply talking out your ass? I’ve got $10 that says it was the latter.

    rab,

    Well I am not a long way from living on the street lol

    MapleEngineer,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.ca avatar

    One person is not a revolution.

    rab,

    There are hundreds of homeless people in my small city of Victoria alone

    Ever been to Vancouver?

    MapleEngineer,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.ca avatar

    Yes. I’ll be there in the middle of September.

    A few hundred homeless people do not a revolution make (or a few thousand, or a few tens of thousands.) You can fantasize about it by the reality is that you end up dead or in prison if you try.

    We need change, that is an absolute truth, but we are a long, long way from revolution.

    rab,

    Ok well just wait till you see how aggressive and violent homeless people have become haha. It’s not friendly begging anymore and I don’t blame them

    Agree that it’s fantasy though. Canada is spineless

    MapleEngineer,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.ca avatar

    I’ll be fine.

    rab,

    Yeah you sound wealthy so you will likely just avoid those areas entirely

    MapleEngineer,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.ca avatar

    I was thinking that I would go down to Save On for a sandwich.

    avidamoeba,
    @avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

    I don’t blame them either. However this problem exists in a country where homeownership sits over 60%. Many, many of them not in any proximity to homelessness. It’ll require a lot more people on the bandwagon to get a significant change happen.

    MapleEngineer,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.ca avatar

    You know what’s funny? I mentioned going down to Save On Meats to get a sandwich and you didn’t even know that it had closed permanently during the pandemic. You were telling stories like you were from there and you were lying. You’ve probably never even been there. I have. I’ve walked those streets. My cousin works those streets. You’re afraid of outrageous stories you’ve read online, probably in the extreme right wing echo chamber. How utterly fucking pathetic

    rab,

    You said Save On which I thought you meant save on foods

    Holy hell why are you so angry

    Your reply is so weird. Even if I understood you meant the diner I wouldn’t have known it closed anyway because I can’t afford to eat at restaurants in the first place

    MapleEngineer,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.ca avatar

    I’m not even slightly angry. I’m quite happy, actually. I just landed in Vancouver.

    Shadow,
    @Shadow@lemmy.ca avatar

    You’re not advocating for violence, so why would you be banned?

    We don’t want to prevent reasonable discourse with opposing opinions, we just don’t want an army of trolls and (literal) shit posters overwhelming everyone else.

    rab,

    Sorry, I got the impression that you ban whoever you disagree with

    jerkface,
    @jerkface@lemmy.ca avatar

    My god, what a martyr

    BlemboTheThird,

    You’re not advocating for violence

    Is he not? He said only violence gets anything done and “that guy threatening landlords is, like it or not, correct.” I guess you could be extremely generous with assuming he likes society exactly as it is?

    Shadow,
    @Shadow@lemmy.ca avatar

    He’s edited his comment and I’m pretty sure it wasn’t that aggro when I read it last night, unless I was really that tired.

    jerkface,
    @jerkface@lemmy.ca avatar

    How many Canadians had to take up arms and murder their countrymen to get gay marriage and cannabis reform? The other side certainly used a lot of violence, AND THEY LOST. I only have to come up with one counterexample and there’s two.

    kugel7c,
    @kugel7c@feddit.de avatar

    Yes violence can be both successful and unsuccessful but to begin with the state likely used violence against violent supporters of bad drug policy and bigoted marriage laws, or alternatively against covid deniers and what not. On the other hand people did riot for weed and gayness 50 or so years ago and continually violently defended themselves in their continued (political) existence for these years. Political change, even if the laws change relatively non violently at the end, needs violence or at least the threat of violence to come about.

    jerkface,
    @jerkface@lemmy.ca avatar

    You’re moving the goalpost. We’re talking about executions. Fucking terrorism. That is NOT the way social causes are advanced.

    kugel7c,
    @kugel7c@feddit.de avatar

    No I’m describing the world and how I understand Political progress. Protests, strikes, riots, civil war, terrorism, assassinations, police and military violence and war can all be used, and are primarily used to further political goals. Politics is, viewed from some perspectives at least, the struggle about who can use what kind of violence for what reason. Specific to the landlord example, the police will use violence to enforce the landlords property rights through eviction, sure there is a system that justifies that violence, it is still violence.

    Looking at what Abes assassination did to political development in Japan. especially toward Abe and the Unification church seems to provide good reason to assume terrorism to be pretty effective at the moment. ISIS, black Panthers, the end of the British Raj, the existence of the country of Turkey its all violent power struggle for political goals all the way down. If you are a freedom fighter or revolutionary or a terrorist is literally just a matter of perspective.

    I’m just trying to get you to realize that Violence is used by all political sides and that their own justifications for it are never perfect. You might find yourself supporting violence by the(your) state and violence from other groups on different issues, both are violence nonetheless. I generally agree executions for achieving political goals shouldn’t be needed, at the same time they do happen regardless, and you can separate good political goals from bad ones, and welcome the executions that further your political goals, without endorsing executions generally.

    avidamoeba,
    @avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

    That’s it. That’s all there is to it. It is true that some rights took violence to establish, but clearly there are plenty that didn’t. If for example it takes violence to fix our housing problems, then I guess that’s what would have been needed, but there are plenty of options before we get there.

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