RespectMyAuthoriteh,
@RespectMyAuthoriteh@lemmy.world avatar

Let’s put things in perspective. Lemmy.world currently has a “whopping” 127k users. That’s fewer users than the moderately successful niche subreddit I created on Reddit has, which is just one of several thousand subreddits over 127k in size. Not to mention the tens of thousands of Instagram, youtube, facebook, tiktok, etc., pages with more than 127k subscribers. Saying lemmy.world has “a lot of power” at this point seems like a real stretch to me.

WorkIsSlow,

The amount of power they have over the direction of Lemmy comes from the percentage of Lemmy users they have not the total user count.

XEAL,

A lot of power within Lemmy.

treefingers,

That’s all well and good, but a user can be subscribed to many subs

Nurgle,

You can be on multiple instances?

treefingers,

It’s much more normal for a person to have many more subs attached to a single account than it is to have many accounts

E.g. you might have say 3 accounts, but one of those accounts might have 100 subs, relatively speaking the numbers aren’t comparable

bappity,
@bappity@lemmy.world avatar

think about it relatively

DrQuint,

fewer than a successful niche reddit

Maybe by subscriber count (the bad count, never use sub count).

Truly niche reddits have 5k readers at most. And even then, readers includes lurkers, while lemmy users ONLY includes people making comments.

interdimensionalmeme,

It’s obvious that like mastodon when twitter imploded, not 1% of 1% of 1% of fleeing users actually made it past the registration screen. Maybe Lemmy will get another chance , in 5/10 years

wewbull,

A platform switch takes time, and normally it’s a particular community that takes hold. Right now, on Lemmy, it seems to be mostly memes and shit posting that’s on the front page. Getting more interesting conversations visible to new users will make the biggest difference.

prole,

Their “power” would be relative to other lemmy instances, not absolute.

The comparison to reddit isn’t really fair, as by the time they were getting thousands of subs with more than 127k subscribers, they had been bought by Conde Nast, and were also making money through ads.

These servers don’t just magically run for free, someone is paying for it. And I don’t know about you, but I don’t want lemmy to change in order to appear more appealing to advertisers.

MonsieurHedge,
MonsieurHedge avatar

This has its negatives. If someone makes twenty-seven different hate speech communities spread out over twenty-seven instances, it becomes harder to exterminate them like the vermin they are. If they all congregate on one overly-permissive instance, you can defederate them and call it a day. Much easier.

WtfEvenIsExistence, (edited )

There’s also partial defederation. lemmy.world has just blocked piracy communities while still federated with the rest of the instance, while that decision might not be liked by pirates, we now know this option exists therefore it’s also possible to block hate communities without blocking the entire instance.

MonsieurHedge,
MonsieurHedge avatar

Has to be done manually, though. Better tools will make this a more appealing option in the future, but for now I unironically think more centralization is the better option just to make the moderation job a little easier. Lord knows it's difficult enough.

Whirlybird,

This has its negatives. If someone makes twenty-seven different hate speech communities spread out over twenty-seven instances, it becomes harder to exterminate them like the vermin they are.

You don’t need to “exterminate them” though, you can just ignore them. See someone being overtly racist? Block them and be done with it.

Waluigi,
@Waluigi@feddit.de avatar

Can I move a community from one server to another or do I have to delete the old one and recreate it elsewhere? Because I have a community on .world and would like to move it somewhere else, probably feddit.de

flashgnash,

Think we need universal/transferrable accounts to make this happen. People, myself included will be concerned that if they sign up to a tiny instance someone’s hosting on a raspberry pi or something that it’ll just disappear without a trace one day and their account along with it

If accounts were made portable I think a lot more people would disperse

jonafire,

Would be great if you could set other instances to have a copy of your profile in case your main one disappears.

regalia,

DISPERSE

CaptKoala,

SCATTER!

RoundSparrow,

If everyone was spread out onto different instances

Each instance with an owner/operator making rules… that the average social media user walks in, orders a drink, and starts smoking without any concern that neither one may be allowed. People can be loyal to their media outlets even when it is beyond obvious they are bad. People raised on storybooks that endorse bad behaviors and values, HDTV networks, and social media too. Audience desire to “react comment” to images and not actually read what others have commented - nor learn about the venue operators and reasons for rules is pretty much the baseline experience in 2023.

JustAThought,

I am new here and I don’t even know what an instance is, how to find one for me or why you are mentioning HGTV.

dukeGR4,

think of it as subreddit, and within the subreddit you have other sub-subreddits.

RoundSparrow,

An Instance is just another word for ‘server’ in lemmy terminology. HDTV is a classic form of media that doesn’t involve TCP/IP to watch films and other video content.

jkozaka,

I made an account on lemm.ee, thought it was a bad idea since all the communities were on .world. After this whole fiasco though, I’m happy with my decision.

Waluigi,
@Waluigi@feddit.de avatar

It’s funny how I made a few Alts just in case. Two of my four accounts are now unusable :')

Underwaterbob,

Hail fellow lemm.ee er!

We really are the best.

SchizoDenji,

Same. All I want is to not miss out on content that is concealed from me because of defederation unless it’s really harmful like gore or CP.

tinho,

Lemmy really kicked off when you see the drama you had on Reddit here but with instances.

regalia,

It’s pretty entertaining tbh. It really makes you more tight knit with your community too. It’s something I never really considered with federations, you’re like joining a team.

Swim,

Their recent actions have convinced me to move to another instance

Ghostalmedia,
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

Lemmy world has like 3500 active users a day. That’s not large. That’s going to be the base for a small decent instance in a year.

cyborganism,

Every country should have their own instance and people should sign up to the server that’s closest to them or that best fits their privacy concerns.

I would love to see more federated social media servers in Switzerland for example.

the_lone_wolf,

government are shit then they would really liked to control it

Honytawk,

Depends if the government is shit. Most in the developed world aren’t.

Honytawk,

The government of the Netherlands has their own Mastodon server since they left Xitter.

cokane_88,

Ive signed up for multiple instances, most don’t accept new users, or wait for approval which gets denied I assume.

raptir,

I have accounts on four instances that are all still open for registration. And two did have an approval required but I got it within hours.

vacuumflower,

Which is why identities and communities on Fediverse should be cryptography-based, and an “instance” should simply be a sort of a supernode, or a caching node.

shrugal, (edited )

In principal yes, but requiring people to handle private keys would be a nightmare! Imo what we can and should do is support for transferring accounts between instances, including posts and comments.

vacuumflower,

The former can be the underlying level simply.

SchizoDenji,

If the account itself is like a property/attribute of a post/comment, then I suppose it can be changed seamlessly. But i dont think it is designed to be that way.

shrugal,

Afaik right now you’d have to send an update for every post/comment individually, if it would even work. I think we need one simple ActivityPub message that simply means “this actor is now this other actor, and all its objects should be updated”.

interdimensionalmeme,

3 words SINGLE USER INSTANCES

xavier666,

The amount of data that needs to be exchanged because of this approach is not scalable. Assume that there are 3 instances with 100 users each. Even if lots of users upvote/post/comment, the traffic is exchanged only between 3 servers. But if there are 300 single user instances, the amount of traffic/storage will be duplicated which can cause a huge load for everyone which might not be viable in the long run, for both the sender and receiver. PS: I am assuming that the instances periodically update content by fetching the deltas.

interdimensionalmeme,

Just go to your average big popular subreddit, check out all the text of all posts and comments they week. That’s still a minuscule amount of data. A few megabytes when uncompressed.

And Lemmy won’t get to that point of popularity and traffic for a very long time.

And even then, it’s an easy problem to solve. Each instance creates a chunk of a day’s data, sign it and share it on a bittorrent like protocol. Even nntp massively archaic infrastructure can manage this, it is a piece of cake for Lemmy to do.

pinkdrunkenelephants,

🤔 We need an ActivityPub app that is basically just a user account holder that is tied to their IP or MAC address so individuals can carry the same info throughout the fediverse, block instances they personally don’t like, and so bans from instances are actually permanent and enforceable.

KazuyaDarklight,
@KazuyaDarklight@lemmy.world avatar

IPs change constantly, MAC is per network device (a laptop with Wi-Fi and wired has two different MACs), so you would need to be able to have a list of MACs and MACs can be easily spoofed so thats a whole other set of issues.

pinkdrunkenelephants,

Fair.

🤔 I worry what will happen once unique identifiers are integrated into chips.

KazuyaDarklight,
@KazuyaDarklight@lemmy.world avatar

Another interesting thought about MACs and any other chip-based IDs that get floated in the future. Spoofing aside, while MACs are supposed to be unique, there are a lot of dodgy mfgs that just burn the same MAC or set of MACs into entire batches of chips at a time. If a new standard was announced, it would be interesting to see the results of orgs trying to take advantage of the ID while shady mfgs continue to not give a flip.

pinkdrunkenelephants,

🤔 In principle, you could just order a chip from a manufacturer with a specific ID tag so you could mimic someone you hated, or steal their shit, or otherwise fuck up their lives under such a system.

Hrm. 🫤 I admit that’s pretty problematic.

interdimensionalmeme,

The vast majority of ethernet devices can be set to use any arbitrary mac address

conorab,

Correct me if this is already a thing, but it would be nice if you could post to multiple communities at once and have users see comments across all communities and instances. So a user posts “A” on instances X, Y and Z all under communities run on those instances at the same time. When making the post, you select ehich communities the post goes to instead of just one. Users on instances X, Y and Z see it as a single post it appears in all of the communities the user specifies. A limit might be useful here to prevent trial spam. A user commenting on the post in instance X will be seen on the other instances and communities where that post was made.That way, you could remove the centralisation on instances and communities (one community or instance might remove the thread, but everybody else still sees it and each others comments in the remaining communities/instances.) This has a few advantages:

  • People are incentivised to post to smaller communities knowing that larger ones will also get the same post and everybody can see each others comments.
  • If a moderator of a community removes the post, it still disappears in their community, but not the whole instance. If the thread still exists in other communities in the same instance, users of that instance can still participate in the post on those communities.
  • If the post is banned instance-wide, it is banned across all communities in the instance at once. This could include non-local communities.
  • Users in other instances will still be able to see the post and continue contributing to it. You can only remove the post from your own instance.
Fissionami,
@Fissionami@lemmy.ml avatar

Share this thought here !lemmy_support

conorab,

One issue that came to mind when I tried to re-write this comment to post it on lemmy_support: a post can be made to communities with completely different rules resulting in commenters following the rules of the community they are in, but not the other community the post was sent to. This seems like a pretty big issue for moderation.

Fissionami,
@Fissionami@lemmy.ml avatar

That is why defederation and blocking communities happen! If both communities are on far extreme side of the scale then there’s no good ground to be made for interaction.

conorab,

Only idea I had in mind would be to have the post go to a “home” community and all other communities pull the comments from that one and submit their own comments to that one. If the “home” community has rules that the others roughly follow that might help filter the extreme ends out so you don’t just get constant de-federation.

Content allowed on instances:

  • Instance 1: Content A, B
  • Instance 2: Content B only
  • Instance 3: Content B, C

By making instance 2 the home for the post, which by it’s own rules only allows content that both instance 1 and 3 allow themselves, you filter out the content which 1 and 3 would hate. Of course, this puts the moderation burden on instance 2. You could still allow instances 1 and 3 to have their own comments which instance 2 doesn’t allow, but only they will see those comments.

IDK, I feel I’m starting to see why Lemmy works the way it does. I’ll post in !lemmy_support if I get a better idea. :)

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