Construc_,
@Construc_@lemmy.world avatar

it works pretty well as a recap episode, and as a teaching moment. covers, broadly, the events of the show up to that point (which, remember, is several years of airing and you might have missed a chunk of it), all while coating it in propaganda for the characters to reflect on and for the viewer to learn about. i remember being a kid and being outraged that the events were being portrayed wrongly, and it was a big learning point for me.

blahsay,

Maybe…they could listen to the original creator?

If he has ‘creative differences’ maybe listen to him next time?

Kaladank420,

No way this is true. I hate that episode it’s such a boring recap episode I always skip it. One of the like 3 episodes I skip In the entire show.

chatokun,

So you’re all people then? Counterpoint, I enjoy it. It’s not my favorite, but certain meta moments are fun. Skipping the… hmm, tunnel? episode, Toph loving her actor, bad cosplay, and Sokka getting in on the ham are all somewhat fun. There’s some bplot drama I don’t care much for, but assuming everyone must have taste like yours is peak “everyone thinks like me and if they say they don’t they’re faking.”

People have tastes that don’t match yours. Neither of you are wrong for your tastes. (Barring absolutely harmful ones anyway).

cumskin_genocide,

The show wasn’t even that great. The third season was aggressively mediocre

Jimmycakes,

I thought this was about the good avatar

whodatdair,

Avatar state, Yip Yip!

RGB3x3,

So much HOPE!

Twoafros,

I like that in the netflix version they added scenes that weren’t in the original. My favorite is the scene of Lu Ten’s funeral. Iroh is just sitting there silent but you can see on his face that is he is broken inside but everyone comes up to him and congratulates him that his son died a hero. No one says it but for me it felt like in the fire nation culture you’re not allowed to mourn the death of those who died in battle, which is a crazy concepts but fits with the Fire Nations fascist ideology.

I couldn’t find the whole scene, but here is the last part of it (yewtu.be/watch?v=hwPn2gJ1B_U). For context, Zuko has gone up to Iroh and said that Lu Ten’s death is great honor. But when he was about to leave he comes back and thats when the above video starts.

These scenes add so much to the character of Iroh, Zuko, Lu Ten (whose character we did know anything about in the original) and to war-time Fire Nation culture. It’s amazing!

Microw,

Yeah this scene is great. There are a few more good additions, I have written about it at !avatar already. My favourite episode is “Masks” with the blue spirit.

loveluvieah,

I agree and also thought they did a pretty good job. Not perfect, but perfection is never attainable and for having to squeeze everything into 8 episodes, they did well!

na_th_an,

Small spoilers ahead: making Zuko’s crew the 41st division that he refused to sacrifice was a great addition to the story.

Twoafros,

This was great addition as well!

aidan,

My favorite part of that scene is that the background music is the tune of “Leaves From The Vine”

gedaliyah,
@gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

That was brilliant.

They managed to touch on one of the most emotional moments of the beloved series, recontextualize it on its own grounds, and tie it back to the original in a subtle and respectful way. The series doesn’t come close to capturing the magic of the original, but it has a little magic of its own if you let it.

derf82,

Zuko’s crew being the soldiers he saved is also a great change. As is getting more Gyatzo.

The biggest issue is a lot of the acting and writing. The actors for Aang and Katara just were not the best, though I’m more apt to blame showrunners that don’t know how to deal with kids, as most older actors are great. And the whole series of episodes in Omashu and then the forest/spirit world were convoluted and stupid.

The other issue is changing characters completely. Bumi going from a fun loving crazy old man trying to teach Aang important lessons is now a crazy bitter old man attacking his childhood friend. The past Avatars, rather that being loving mentors, are just useless at best, mean at worst. And with Suki no longer being a foil for Sokka’s sexism, they turned her into a horny flirt.

Twoafros,

I agree with you on all of this except the point on Bumi. I think the change to his character is great and makes him feel more realistic! It felt like the live action Bumi was trying to be as fun loving as animation Bumi but can’t hide how deeply the war has changed him for the worst, which makes sense since he is probably the only one (or only handful of people) to have lived and fought through a hundred years of war. He’s also trying to be a good friend to Aang but can’t help but feel resentful towards him for abandoning his role as the avatar.

derf82,

Eh, they took it too far. He literally became an asshole. He didn’t seem like he was trying to be a friend at all.

They also needed to give him more backstory. We see young Bumi for what, a minute? Show us the kid Aang had fun with.

BravoVictor,
@BravoVictor@programming.dev avatar

I know… it worked for Mean Girls and The Color Purple…

Avatar: the Last Airbender Musical

littlecolt, (edited )

It’s not bad. Stop perpetrating this clickbait.

Edit: I was wrong y’all. It’s trash

NineMileTower,

How am I going to feel better about myself if I’m not shitting on stuff online? How do you expect me to feel superior to people who enjoy something without whining about how bad a show is?

Lucidlethargy,

I thought it was really bad.

littlecolt,

After watching it all, it was really bad

OneOrTheOtherDontAskMe,

I watched an episode. It’s really bad. I rewatched the series this last year so I could compare it. Just because someone agrees with the popular sentiment doesn’t mean they’re perpetrating (perpetuating?) click bait.

Microw,

You watched an episode. That’s not representative for all episodes. Simple as that.

dustyData, (edited )

Aang flies like Superman in the first minute of his first appearance in the first episode. I rolled my eyes so hard that my brain reset to zero expectations mode. It’s good enough to be background noise, specially if you don’t watch or ignore the actors faces most of the time (except Sokka, he kills it). But it is nowhere near anything that can be called good.

Microw,

Episode 2 is good. Episode 6 is good. Haven’t seen 7 and 8 yet.

The other episodes are definitely mid.

dustyData,

I watched 1 and 2 back to back and couldn’t help but laugh at the fact that Aang learns how to cry in between episodes, or they applied fake tears for Gyatso’s funeral or something. Bless their child actor’s hearts, they tried very hard. But I don’t think even Oscar winners could’ve done much with some of the atrocious dialogue that plagues some episodes. But yeah, mid would be a rather apt descriptor.

thedirtyknapkin,

there’s plenty of steps between bad and good. let’s call it mediocre, or mid,or meh or, whatever flavor you want. I really don’t think that flight moment was as bad as people are making it out to be. he uses tornadoes to push himself up in various ways in the animated series. this was that, but a bit longer. he didn’t fly around like super man. he hovered on top of a vortex of wind for like 10 seconds at most.

I agree that the acting isn’t great. good child actors are actually really rare. that said, people are overreacting calling it trash. especially since no one I’ve heard call it that actually gave it a fair shot.

dustyData,

It lasts 40 seconds and he is in Superman pose flying for the most of it. I didn’t call it that out of spite, I actually enjoyed the whole series. But it is mid. Sure, maybe not trash like the Shyamalaladingdong movie, but I don’t want to have to sit through it ever again.

wildcardology,
dustyData,

No, he was more flying like this.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/2078ee7e-2cd6-41b4-998a-0dc171f0d8bb.jpeg

Like with a wingsuit (which ironically do appear in The Legend of Korra) but without the suit. There are videos of the scene on YouTube. I don’t know why they did it, when they could’ve used the glider staff. Specially since in a later scene he is shown being unable to fly without the staff.

wildcardology,

Ok I definitely saw that pose but when people talk about the superman pose the one I showed is the superman flying pose or the one with 2 hands extended.

dustyData,

That’s fastidious nitpicking. You understood what I meant. He made several feet across as if he had wings and floated around as weightless in ways that it’s established that airbenders shouldn’t.

loveluvieah,

Ok, while I agree that was super cringe and there is definitely some more throughout, it’s pretty short sighted to deem the entire remake bad when the first episodes are generally never the best in the seasons. They had to cram a lot of back story in and only had 8 episodes. I found the first episode to be the weakest out of the entire season. Overall, it’s mid, but not bad and has some really enjoyable moments.

Also, I assume the flying is due to budget constraints, and it would have been too expensive to cgi a ball of air to fly on.

To each their own, though. Everyone’s got their opinions ¯_(ツ)_/¯

dustyData,

Oh, good call, I will do the math. The 8 live-action episodes last between 48 and 63 minutes each, in total they are 434 minutes of runtime. Roughly about the same as the whole animated season 1, which was 20 episodes that last 24 minutes each, so total 480 minutes. They only had 46 minutes less than the animated show to tell the exact same story.

loveluvieah,

Right but it’s easier and cheaper to tell a story through animation vs live action. Just because the live action run time is close to the original animation run time, doesn’t mean it’s practical or feasible to do the same in live action.

I don’t think animation and live action can pace the same for something like this. Things that feel rushed in animation feel rushed ten fold in live action. I’d think episodes would at least need to be expanded to a solid half hour for pacing when it comes to a live action.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see a perfect adaption. But, I think that would require a HUGE budget and would have to be a billionaires passion project for all the cgi and general costs it would need to properly make an ATLA live action that perfectly follows the animation.

Since that’s never going to happen, I appreciate the live action we have for what it is, and between budget and time constraints, I think they did a good job.

dustyData,

Nah, its bad writing. Rushing in film usually means that characters spent way too much time talking doing exposition. Also the fact that time passing is never represented, so it all just feel like one long day that never moves forward in time.

On my part I don’t want a perfect adaptation. Or a frame to frame adaptation. That would be boring and would never work on live action. I want good writers to do creative adaptations of the world that use the strengths of the medium to produce high quality entertaining new stories. If I want to see Aang story again, I will prefer the original animation instead every single time.

I appreciate this adaptation for what it is, and it is rather mediocre. Not bad, not good. It just exists.

loveluvieah,

I 100% agree the writing was bad, and I blame netflix pushing out the original writers. I’m more impressed that the kid actors did what they did when the script gave them so little to work with. Kataras character was butchered. But on the flip side Sokka, Zuko, and Iroh killed it I thought.

This could have been great like the One Piece live action, but settled for mid. I think it was at least good just because I did have some very enjoyable moments through out, mostly in the second half, and I also loved a lot of the visuals and animals.

Lucidlethargy,

Haha oh man, I just said this exact thing a little ways up! I’m not the only one who thought of superman! Too funny…

But for real, why did they do this? It bothered the hell out of me that they made such a weird, massive change like this.

dustyData,

It particularly shows the show-runners null knowledge or at least contempt for the original material. It was a big plot point on The Legend of Korra. Flying that way was a mythical and highly advanced airbending technique, confined only to the most enlightened sages. It was the whole point of Zaheer as an antagonist. But Aang just goes up and down in the air. And I just realized that Aang didn’t waterbend a single time in the whole season, not even in that training scene when Katara practices with the scroll. Which is funny, because reading this thread’s positive praise, rather than improving my opinion of the adaptation, it is actually making me like it slightly less.

OneOrTheOtherDontAskMe,

I gave a show an hour of my time to get me to watch a universe I already like and know. If it can’t “get” me in an hour, and THAT’S your front facing first episode? Nah, not worth my time

Microw,

Oh, I absolutely understand that and it’s reasonable. But please dont go around saying that the series is bad, because the truth is that you have not seen the series. Just tell people that the first episode is bad.

Lucidlethargy,

I think it’s fair to judge the show by the first episode. This is all subjective, of course, but the changes they made to the story and to the universe will tell many fans all they need to know.

They made pretty massive changes. Aang has none of his childlike wonder, he can fly unaided like a Marvel superhero, and he’s seemingly now a victim of a joyride gone wrong, rather than the boy who ran away from the world.

And the CGI… it’s really rough in my opinion. There are entire scenes like the intro that are clearly 100% computer generated. If they passed that’s one thing, but they look really goofy and uncanny.

These are all good reasons to judge the show, and you do see them in that first episode.

OneOrTheOtherDontAskMe,

If you can’t comment on shows you haven’t watched the entirety of, and having only seen 1/8th-1/10th of the show, then most reviews are entirely out the window, all nominations for awards shows (which watch one, maybe two episodes for deliberation), and pretty much half of all comments related to a show are all moot, is that what I’m to believe your point is?

I didn’t watch the second episode, so I can’t tell them it gets any better, so let me rephrase it. Based on the first episode, which by all means should be the most catching and the most engaging of the series if only to push viewership, the show misses the mark on the characterization and story-development originally set by the animated series, regardless of the decent visuals and respectfully done outfits. Not only does it change existing characters’ personalities, emotional maturity, and overall story arcs, it does so for reasons that seem to resemble “because new”. Why change how Appa is released, why change katara’s grandmother to include a poorly delivered word for word of the original intro, why have Aang address his running from his destiny and want to be a child so early when that’s a key part of him visiting the air temple? I’ll never know, because they lost me in the first episode. They had an hour to get me to give them the benefit of the doubt, and they missed the mark

hesusingthespiritbomb,

I agree. I stopped watching after the first episode. It was extremely bad. I would understand if it’s worse than the show, but it’s just bad in general. The best comparison I could give is a really bad CW show. It not only fails as a remake, but fails a lot of basic television fundamentals. I understand people have different opinions, but it was so bad that it was almost objectively awful.

kraftpudding,

To be fair, I haven’t gotten to more than Ep1 yet, because ep.1 was so bad I lost all excitement. The visuals are nice, and I personally don’t mind little lore inconsistencies like flying that much, but the dialogue was really really bad, and I did not like frontloading the whole airbender genocide plot. Yes, 90% of the viewers probably have seen the original and know the plot, but it still robs me of the experience of discovering the truth and learning about Aang together with sokka and Katara. Idk, I just really like the structure of the original show, and I didn’t appreciate the swap.

gedaliyah,
@gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

In general, the approach of the show seems to be averse to the “big reveal” technique of the original. They do the same with the death of Iroh’s son, Zuko’s conflict with his father, King Bumi, etc. The philosophy seems to be to lay everything out for the viewer and watch it develop.

kraftpudding, (edited )

Yeah, but for me as a kid, seeing those kids grow up, discover and learn more about their world, while I was growing up, discovering and learning about my world was what made the show so relatable and good. And I still watch the original to get back that sense of wonder and surprise even today. Because even as adults, we can be so sure something is right, wrong, important, impossible, worthless, etc. And be totally wrong, right, anything in between and, most importantly, totally focusing on the wrong thing and missing the bigger picture.

It showed me that evil people sometimes just are senselessly evil, but mostly have just different convictions, beliefs, upbringing or information that makes them think they are the good guy. And they think we are the bad guy. But while what they do may be not senseless evil, we still must try to stop them. There can be logic to evil, but it’s still evil.

For me as a small kid, that was a big thing to learn. And obviously I understand that as an adult, I can’t get that from the show now, but I want the feeling that if I watched this show as a kid, i would have gotten both of those things.

And honestly, the first episode didn’t give me much hope for either of these. That, plus the cringy writing just killed all my enthusiasm. I will probably try episode 2 some time. But, I’m not excited anymore.

RGB3x3,

It is though and I’ve watched the entire thing. Dialogue lines are trash, they constantly “tell” instead of “show,” timelines don’t make any sense, Team Avatar has no Chemistry, Katara learns to waterbend at a master-level from a single scroll, Aang never waterbends, there’s no obvious through-line for the plot (it’s just assumed you know why Aang is going to these places), Aang literally has no passion, and the show is trying to straddle the line between shot-for-shot remake and a retelling, but failing at both. There’s ZERO character development. I could go on with things that are wrong with this new series.

I think the young actors and the special-effects crew have been failed by the writers, directors, and producers.

jj4211,

One weird decision was to rewrite Aang’s disappearance. Originally he ran away and got frozen, and no one made a huge deal of his “running away”. In the new series they explicitly change it to a brief flight to just think on things. Then they leaned hard a few times in shaming him for running away, when they expressly changed that detail…

SrTobi,

Wait didn’t he also get blamed for running away in the original show? Or at least for not being there for the war?

jj4211, (edited )

Yeah, but:
a) He did technically run away at least, though obviously way more than he intended
b) In the original, while there was some blaming, the Netflix went much harder on berating him. Basically Netflix took the angst dial and cranked it up across the board for as much as possible. Which is the general trend of a lot of shows lately, which disappoints me broadly that everything has to be so emo.

Spaceinv8er,

I really enjoyed the live action. Imo, it cut a lot of the filler from the animated show. I dislike wasting my time watching an episode that adds nothing to the plot.

I really think they should have just continued the story, rather than try to reboot it. I really hope they continue it though.

maness300,

Maybe it’s just me, but I felt like there was no filler in avatar.

Each episode mattered and was worth watching. Unlike a show like Naruto, where the filler is a legit joke and the writers don’t even care.

Microw,

The animated universe will still be continued with movies coming out in the next few years. I think there is more info at !avatar about that somewhere.

I also hope the live action gets a second season at least.

mlg,
@mlg@lemmy.world avatar

For a fraction of the cost, Netflix could have instead just frame remastered the original show into 16:9 (not lazy cropping) and spent most of the effort into marketing it properly to gain a much wider audience.

But that would involve talent, critical thinking, and accepting that animation is a format not a genre. So naturally they just bought the rights so they could have their version of Star Wars/Harry Potter.

I could go on an entire rant about how even thinking making an animated show into a live action is a stupid idea, no matter how much money you throw at it, but I think I’ll just wait for E;R’s 2 hour youtube special instead lmao.

Katana314,

Has this ever been done? Taken an entire TV series animated in 4:3, and just adding content to the sides of the screen on every single frame?

zaphod,
@zaphod@lemmy.ca avatar

God I hope they never try that.

The best visual artists are extremely effective in their use of space. A 4:3 image expanded to 16:9 would just look weird, as the framing would simply not look right.

The alternative is some amount of expansion and cropping but it would still not look nearly as good as leaving the artwork in it’s original aspect ratio.

A great example is Seinfeld which looks frickin terrible in 16:9:

consequence.net/…/seinfeld-aspect-ratio-netflix/

vardogor,
@vardogor@mander.xyz avatar

it can be done well. off the top of my head, a couple good examples are south park and marvelous misadventures of flapjack

Azzu,

I only know South Park, but from what I remember most of the shots there weren’t particularly cinematic, most of it was pretty “matter of fact” with the main action/focus to the middle of the characters with everything else around just being eye-candy non-important filler. I could imagine it then working much better.

barsoap,

That’s why you have it done by an actual animation studio with actual artists who can redo the composition if necessary. Way easier to do with animation than with anything else, technically speaking, e.g. you can crop out characters, reconstruct the matte and move the characters elsewhere without having to account for fancy realistic lighting.

The alternative is to be Babylon 5 which was shot on 16:9, framed for 16:9 but making sure a 4:3 crop doesn’t cut away important bits, in anticipation of the new format, alas the CGI was done in 4:3 and quite low res and noone has ever bothered to prepare a proper 16:9 release (and with the remake on the horizon that ever happening becomes more and more unlikely). There’s a version out there in acceptable 16:9, though: Most of the footage doesn’t include CGI and so is fine as-is, arguably better than the 4:3 crop, and the panned/zoomed CGI parts aren’t too jarring. Definitely blurry, though. I’d actually recommend it over the original release, imperfect as it is.

meowMix2525, (edited )

I’ll just wait for E;R’s 2 hour youtube special instead

Didn’t that guy get revealed to be a nazi sympathizer straight up neo nazi that peppers propaganda into his videos “”“as a joke”“” and got pewdiepie in a lot of shit for shouting him out?

edit: yeah I just went back and watched a reupload of one of the videos (the SU fusion video) that I actually enjoyed before I really understood what fascist propaganda looked like or how to consume media critically and… wow. Even “censored” to get past youtube’s filters, it’s much worse than I remembered.

mindbleach,

Just checked Wikitubia and the quote section goes ‘Steven Universe is kinda gay,’ ‘anyone describing gender is promoting Nazi propaganda,’ ‘you know I don’t care for Dragonball.’

I’ve just learned of this guy, and fuck this guy.

Daft_ish, (edited )

I hate how Hollywood thinks live action is the highest form of visual media. Like you want remake avatar? Up the budget for animators, pay the shit out of your voice actors, and pay some writers to add some darker themes. Would be better than any of the live action have been.

HUMAN_TRASH,

I’d watch that

tryptaminev,

The original is pretty dark for a childrens show. Even as an adult episodes like the one about blood bending made me shiver a bit.

Stoneykins,

Yeah but they weren’t allowed to show or too directly imply death. That’s why Jet’s “death” scene was bizarrely vague. Getting rid of that restriction on the original writers would probably be interesting.

chiliedogg,

And when Korea got into the more obvious deaths they actually pulled it from broadcast and went streaming only.

The Earth Queen’s murder was the one that crossed the line for the Nick execs. There was no way they were showing that on TV.

skyspydude1,

That’s basically what happened with Legend of Korra. It wasn’t TV-MA, but it was definitely a far darker show overall.

maness300,

Nah. Avatar isn’t dark at all for a kid’s show.

Nobody dies. Nobody gets cut. Bending really just amounts to “pushing” in most fights.

Naruto on the other hand is quite dark for a kid’s show.

Linnce,
@Linnce@lemmy.ml avatar

Alex Meyers has a good video on this, he has this exact same opinion. I think maybe you would like it.

Thief_of_Crows,

I’ve only seen 1 episode so far, but IMO the format shift is worth it for the visual effects. Like, Sozin just straight up incinerating that guy would not have worked so well in the anime. And the actors seem quite good (the leads at least). My only real complaint is with the writing. And I mean, it’s not as if the original didn’t also have some pretty badly written lines in the first episodes. Adding in an actual 100 years earlier segment at the start is a big improvement, and it also gives us a taste of the kickass action scenes that are to come. At least for the intro to the show, live action seems significantly better than animated was.

Duamerthrax,
thedirtyknapkin,

Japan makes shit lots of live action adaptations of anime. they just don’t usually make it to the west.

Duamerthrax,

And the manga fans don’t watch them.

Besides, a lot of those movies aren’t actually meant to be watched. They’re made by Yakuza owned company that have to do some production to “prove” they aren’t just laundering money.

maness300,

The problem is you have the literal actors shilling their bullshit to the masses.

Harbinger01173430,

Are we talking about the real avatar stuff or the giant smurfs one?

Kolanaki,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

Pixar’s new animated movie about online profile pics that are sentient.

Harbinger01173430,

…what the hell is that new movie I’ve never heard of? XD

threelonmusketeers,

Wait, what?

pachrist,

One thing I kept thinking about while watching this new show is how much you end up missing Toph. You still get interactions with Zuko, which I thought were fine, but something is still missing, and it’s Toph.

drivepiler,

Toph isn’t in the first season of ATLA though

fogstormberry,

you end up missing her there too

Bonesy91,

This adaption, while not perfect due to nothing coming close to the show in terms of perfection, is not bad at all. It’s shorter than the show so of course they had to make things flow quicker and things were cut out. But for a 7 episode take on season 1 I was impressed.

Facebones,

Yeah it’s not the best thing since sliced bread, but it was a decent TV show (in a vacuum.) Which was about the best we could hope for when they said they want to appeal to Avatar fans AND Game of Thrones fans.

pythonoob,

I just don’t get it. Who wants a live action avatar. The show holds up just fine.

dustyData,

People with brain rot that think that animation is a lower art form, so they would’ve never even gave the original show a second glance.

unreasonabro,

maybe they regard it as a separate revenue stream, so they can doubledip into what their demographics and marketing departments tell them are two completely independent audiences, cartoons vs live action. There’s gotta be some reason because there’s nobody who wants this, nobody who thinks it’s a good idea, and nobody who is not filled with trepidation and a vague nausea at its release, who is also a fan of the original show.

I also don’t believe it can be true that there is a subset of people who are too manly/serious and “absolutely will not watch cartoons” that overlaps with “would watch this obvious adaptation of a children’s show”.

But yeah, they don’t think that way I guess. Anyway I’m just glad it’s not another butcher job. Gonna give it a while before I watch it, I want them to understand this is nobody’s priority. (An Earthbender Avatar, however… that’s day 1 binge territory)

Thief_of_Crows,

Only 1 episode in, but I already love it for how cool the bending looks so far. The second Sozin incinerated a guy while holding him, I was sold.

Spaceballstheusername,

Im only 4 episodes in so I can’t give a full review but I think the problem is there were some choices that were made that ruined the heart of what was good about the show. Uncle iroh and saka are not funny at all. I just saw the 4th episode which has the caves of omashu and the singing hippies were hilarious but got mostly removed. It’s like they think laughing would cheapen then shows seriousness or something. There is no love connection between aang and katara. And they added a bunch of storyline from season 2 for some reason.

Microw,

Obviously there is no love connection between Aang and Katara, that simply does not work between a 12 and a 15 year old.

RGB3x3,

12 and 15 year olds can have crushes. Why do we have to act like children don’t experience love between friends? It’s part of growing up and part of the human experience.

Microw,

They could have included crushes, yes. But I still think that in current societal climate Netflix would have wanted to avoid that

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