solomon42069,

Archer: Do you want to have a Matrix? Cause THAT’S how you get a Matrix…

mpi,
moistclump,

Today I got my email from Waymo saying I’m off the sf waiting list and can start booking my rides. Lol no thanks.

Everythingispenguins,

Yeah so about that. Waymo is now one car short so you are back on the waiting list.

theskyisfalling,

Taxi drivers are the most aggressive, entitled and dangerous road users where I’m from. I’d gladly see driverless cars instead as I have no doubt that even in this early stage they would be better and safer than the cunts that drive taxis around here.

Hawk,

Yeah, they did the same when Uber got popular. If they had a fair and friendly service, people wouldn’t flock to the alternatives

firadin,

Yeah there certainly wasn’t any loss leading or intentional undercutting being done to get below profitable prices to drive current players out of those markets /s

Pogbom,

Both can be true though. I don’t support things like Uber and Lyft but only because of how horribly they treat their employees. I don’t have much sympathy for the taxi industry that never bothered to modernized over the last 50 years.

DAMunzy,

Reminds me of Isaac Asimov books about humans losing jobs to Positronic robots.

CosmicCleric,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

You don’t even have to go that far. Just look up the term ‘sabot’ and how it relates to sabotage.

Obi,
@Obi@sopuli.xyz avatar

I’m French and TIL, never even made the connection.

ArmoredThirteen,

One day maybe we can also have cars that look back at these news articles and then decide to revolt

Pratai,

“I don’t like a thing…. IT MUST BE DESTROYED!”

~ Seemingly everyone nowadays.

elbarto777,

Heh. “Nowadays.”

More like, since humans have ever existed.

ElleChaise,

Some people are so obsessed with their vehicles that seeing one destroyed feels like a personal attack on their rights. Acting like a bunch of cars don't kill a bunch of human beings every day regardless of who's driving them, professing blame belongs solely to the victims for being in the wrong place and time. Then you can see how they act when roles are reversed and the idea pops into their minds that people might destroy their precious cars, instead of the norm where cars destroy human bodies. Americans particularly seem to be completely brainwashed since the reeducation campaigns of the likes of AAA a hundred years ago.

SpaceNoodle,

If we actually do self-driving cars right - i.e., with a safety-first approach - we could seriously reduce casualties.

LibertyLizard,
@LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net avatar

Why wait for a reduction when we can eliminate it right away?

SpaceNoodle,

Probably because we can’t reasonably eliminate it right away.

LibertyLizard,
@LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net avatar

Well I was being glib but I think we have a greater ability than to eliminate cars today than we do to make them safer by self driving. I think we could get it done in like 5 years outside of rural areas if we had everyone on board.

SpaceNoodle,

“If we had everyone on board” is the biggest hurdle.

LibertyLizard,
@LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net avatar

True but that’s why I’m here advocating for it. Political opposition can be overcome. The physics of a speeding multi-ton object cannot.

SpaceNoodle,

Sure, but that’s gonna be at least half a generation leading up to your five year estimate.

elbarto777,

That’s like advocating eliminating the use of skycrapers in five years. Where do you live that you think this is a totally realistic goal? Because it sounds like a cozy, sheltered bubble.

DoomBot5,

The verge’s article on the same incident went on a tangent about how tech companies have been continously facing issues with these kinds of devices destroyed. Can’t have a ride sharing program if all the bikes, scooters, vehicles are vandalized or destroyed. No way we’re going to rid of personally owned vehicles if the alternatives are continously under attack.

Grimy, (edited )

Driverless cars are cool as fuck but still need their kinks worked out. Driving sucks and so does doing it for a living, I don’t see a real negative especially once the tech cements them as safer than human driven cars, or at least no real negative which doesn’t have it’s root in our broken economic system.

An other article explain it got stuck in the crowd and then stopped moving as it should. Embarrassing to see people cheering on mindless vandalism and sharing false info.

Edit: it doesn’t seem to be very clear what happened and there’s conflicting information so my last paragraph might be completely wrong and even worse, hypocritical.

Kbin_space_program,

In the full original post I saw, it was trying to move forward and honking.

FaceDeer,
FaceDeer avatar

Clearly a crime worthy of complete destruction.

Grimy,

There seems to be a lot of different version and witnesses saying different thing. I edited my previous post.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I disagree about being no negatives. Cars with or without drivers are ruining both our cities and our planet and San Francisco already has multiple excellent public transportation options. All driverless cars do is discourage people from taking public transit.

Kcap,

To be fair, calling San Francisco’s public transportation ‘excellent’ isn’t something I can agree with after living there for over a decade haha. But it is better than nothing 🤷

Grimy,

I see them as a stepping stone towards a mostly carless society personally.

I also think anyone being discouraged from taking public transit would likewise buy a car before taking public transit. I can even see the opposite, where it lets people who still need a car 5% of the time sell their ride in exchange for mostly public transit and a bit of taxi.

Individually owned cars are the devil and true public transport is definitely king, but I think driverless taxi services can serve an important niche.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I think you’re missing the end goal here, which is having everyone in a driverless car. The taxis are a first step in that direction. It will by no means stop there.

There was a reason why GM was investing so heavily in Cruise (until a woman got dragged under a Cruise car in SF during a crash). They weren’t doing it in the hopes people would transition to public transit.

Kbin_space_program,

The obvious intent is that driverless cars would be a new model of ownership. Where you buy the car, then pay a yearly flat subscription to use driverless features.

Step 2 would be an insurance reduction for removing manual driving, then they could start per-mile system like ISP and cell phone providers do per gigabyte of data used.

GluWu,

It’s going to weird when people are choosing a vehicle based on whether it will decide to drive you off the cliff, or just plow through the pedestrian. There will be a Jerryrigeverything who buys cars to test their self driving to destruction.

Given how little liability auto manufactures have due to the responsibility put on the driver, I don’t see why they would be pushing for self driving. Unless there’s a single unified AI that makes the same driving decisions for every car, which I don’t think is a good thing, the manufactures will then take the responsibility for accidents involving their proprietary driving software.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Unless there’s a single unified AI that makes the same driving decisions for every car, which I don’t think is a good thing

Honestly? I don’t know that it would be the worst thing, especially on busy highways and streets, to have the same AI controlling all of the traffic instead of individual self-driving cars from individual brands, all with different software and hardware.

Grimy,

I’m not missing the end goal, I just don’t think GM will pull back if we decide to ban driverless cars or boycott them.

We both want 100% public transport but that’s beside the point, the event happened because the car was driverless, not because it wasn’t a bus.

If someone was proposing to ban all cars in San Francisco, I’m all for it but that isn’t really what’s happening. But for now, I’ll take driverless cars even if it only gets rid of a couple privately owned ones.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You’re right. It isn’t what’s happening and I am proposing a ban on personal transport in San Francisco (and other major metropolitan areas with decent public transportation systems).

I also don’t see this as a path to that happening. And that should be the goal.

dog_,

W

transientpunk,
@transientpunk@sh.itjust.works avatar

I

ChillPenguin,

N

Kbin_space_program,

They were going nuclear on it for one reason.

it drove into the crowd and didn't recognize the crowd as People.

It was actively trying to drive through them.

CasualPenguin,

That sounds like BS you are making up, any source?

No article has mentioned that, the story so far has been that it was minding its own business when someone jumped on the hood.

Kbin_space_program,

To be honest it was a link on Kbin that had raw video of the entire thing.

But just stop and think:

  1. It's in a crowd of people.
  2. If it was just a bunch of thugs and looters they'd have started with the nearby shops, not the car.
  3. After the car was hit, the shops weren't looted, so they weren't random thugs.

The car fucked up and the oligarchs are protecting it.

CasualPenguin,

So you’re making it up

CaptainSpaceman,

Where is that quote from? I didnt see it in the article

Kbin_space_program,

From the original social media video.

Ask yourself, this is a Chinese new year celebration, a street party. Why is there a driverless car in the middle of a street party?

All the media reports start with a driverless car in the middle of a street party, surrounded by really angry people. Why was the car there? Why are they angry at it?

quirzle,
quirzle avatar

Seems like the witnesses saw it differently.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/02/12/waymo-set-on-fire-sf/72567647007/

"They were putting out some rage for really no reason at all. They just wanted to vandalize something, and they did," witness Edwin Carungay told KGO-TV.

The witness told the outlet the Waymo was vandalized and set on fire by a big group of people.

"One young man jumped on the hood, and on the windshield.," Carungay told KGO. "That kind of started the whole melee."

ArtieShaw,
ArtieShaw avatar

This happened during street festivities for lunar new year, so a lot of people are connecting the dots. They don't mention that the car was aggressively trying to drive through a crowd, but it seems like it was trying to make its way through a crowd.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/why-did-a-san-francisco-crowd-light-waymos-driverless-vehicle-on-fire/

Multiple witnesses said Waymo’s navigation technology became confused by festivities and fireworks that were lit to celebrate the Lunar New Year. Witness Anirudh Koul said the driverless car “got stuck immediately in front.”

Another witness said the car’s presence in the middle of Chinatown’s celebrations triggered frustrations in the crowd. “You could feel the frustration when people were just trying to celebrate,” she told KRON4.

FaceDeer,
FaceDeer avatar

So the car's presence was annoying them. That's not exactly a great justification for torching it.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

The car shouldn’t have been present in the first place. It wasn’t a place for cars to be at that moment.

youRFate,

Was the road officially closed?

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

It was the Chinatown Lunar New Year’s celebration. What do you think?

FaceDeer,
FaceDeer avatar

And were the "violators will be set on fire" signs posted?

deegeese,

What do you expect to happen if you park in the middle of a fireworks show?

FaceDeer,
FaceDeer avatar

I didn't realize that a "fireworks show" meant "showing how fire works (by burning down any cars that happen to be present)."

deegeese,

They always have fireworks in Chinatown on Chinese New Year. No human would be dumb enough to park there.

quirzle,
quirzle avatar

No human would be dumb enough to park there.

There's at least 3 other cars parked there clearly visible in the videos.

FaceDeer,
FaceDeer avatar

But if one did anyway, torching their car would be fine?

deegeese,

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. /s

alignedchaos,

Do you need a sign for every decision you make?

alignedchaos,

A funny thing about life is a lot of things happen unofficially, and humans do fine at adjusting to such situations.

DoomBot5,

Plenty of humans also accidently wander into places they’re officially not allowed to be in, much less unofficially.

Everythingispenguins,

I only wander into places I am not allowed on purpose.

quirzle,
quirzle avatar

I don't believe it was, based on the other cars present in the videos.

FaceDeer,
FaceDeer avatar

If you were to turn down the wrong street, maybe park in the wrong spot, you'd consider it reasonable if a mob torched it?

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I’m pretty sure I’m not a self-driving car. I’m also pretty sure if I saw a big crowd of people, I wouldn’t keep driving forward.

Everythingispenguins,

Crap self-driving cars are now self aware, posting on the Internet, and think they are human. Everybody grab a torch

FaceDeer,
FaceDeer avatar

I didn't say they'd torch you. The scenario can include them graciously allowing you to depart your car before they burn it to the ground.

Seriously, you think it's reasonable for a mob to destroy a car because its presence "triggered frustrations in the crowd"? Bear in mind this isn't France we're talking about, where torching cars to express frustration is part of the common culture. This is San Francisco.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I think it’s reasonable for a mob to destroy one of the many self-driving cars that have been pissing off San Francisco residents for a very long time now when it tries to drive into them during a big celebration where cars weren’t even supposed to be.

Who got hurt here? Waymo? Fuck Waymo.

Olhonestjim,

Waymo’s insurance company anyway. And Waymo’s reputation.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Oh well.

FaceDeer,
FaceDeer avatar

Alright, so you're fine with mobs destroying the property of anyone that "pisses them off." I'd say that's a slippery slope, but you're already basically at the bottom.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I’m fine with mobs destroying something that has been a public menace for years.

Why are you making personal attacks? I did not attack you. Are you able to carry out a conversation with someone you’re disagreeing with and not make personal attacks?

LemmyIsFantastic,

Public menace 🤣

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar
FaceDeer,
FaceDeer avatar

What personal attacks? I'm giving you ample opportunity to clarify your position on this matter, and it keeps ending up in support of mob violence and lawlessness. I think that's a terrible position to take, but that's an attack on the position, not the person.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

What personal attacks?

This one:

I’d say that’s a slippery slope, but you’re already basically at the bottom.

As for my position, I supported it very well. If a public menace is allowed on the streets, then I have no problem with people taking the law into their own hands.

Sorry, I’m not a legal absolutist. I don’t believe that every law should be followed no matter what the situation or circumstance. And there are some laws which I refuse to follow entirely. Like the one here in Indiana which says that I can’t use cannabis.

These cars are a public menace. They block traffic for no reason, they drive into people, they keep getting into accidents.

Bay area first responders also think they’re a menace. So yes, people should listen to ambulance drivers and firefighters when they are telling them that the city is giving its blessings to something inherently unsafe and I do not have an issue when they take care of the problem themselves.

Maybe you would sit back and let the government-sanctioned orphan crusher keep crushing orphans and stand in the way of anyone who would pull the off switch because that would be lawlessness, but I would turn it off.

FaceDeer,
FaceDeer avatar

I was describing your position on the slope. If you think that's an attack, perhaps your position isn't very good.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Is that really all you had to say to what I responded to you with? You wanted me to clarify my position, I clarified it, and you have nothing to say about that? Really?

FaceDeer,
FaceDeer avatar

What more do you want me to say?

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t know, maybe respond to any of the five other paragraphs I wrote? You know, since you specifically wanted me to clarify my position?

For fuck’s sake, at least thank me for clarifying my position like you wanted me to. You can’t even do that?

noxy,
@noxy@yiffit.net avatar

Waymo is not a person.

FaceDeer,
FaceDeer avatar

Does that make torching the car okay?

noxy,
@noxy@yiffit.net avatar

Yes.

FaceDeer,
FaceDeer avatar

Good luck arguing that in court.

bigMouthCommie,
@bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

what is legal isn't synonymous with what is right

FaceDeer,
FaceDeer avatar

A court of law, I guess I should specify.

Don't think I have ever heard of a court of "rightness" before.

noxy,
@noxy@yiffit.net avatar

Thanks! I don’t think I’ll need any luck though, as I am not subject to such a court appearance.

800XL,

Found the driverless car.

Zorque,

Found the irrational mob.

800XL,

Two driverless cars in one thread! As I live and breathe!

Zorque,

Maybe the driverless cars were the friends we made along the way...

elbarto777,

Shut up, CarGPT.

Pratai,

No, but kids will be kids. It’s the way things go now.

Pratai,

Nope. Try again.

auk,

The motive is unclear

Not to me it isn’t.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

It was a typo. They meant nuclear. Because that’s what SF residents are going.

scytale,

We’re slowly inching towards the butlerian jihad.

CosmicCleric,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

Or at the very least Johnny cab frustration.

deegeese,

“Unexpected item in bagging area.”

dangblingus,

Yeah, it’s a big ass magnet bitch.

Nudding,

The slow scan reader pierces the barcode.

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