kalpa,

So I recently ran across this post and thread by @vwbusguy, and I would like to try to address some of the questions/misconceptions/etc that come up in the thread.

If you have questions, please, ask. What we do with isn't identical to what does with their , but many of the concepts for the end user are going to be similar/the same.

https://mastodon.online/@vwbusguy/111887740588197543

vwbusguy,
@vwbusguy@mastodon.online avatar

@kalpa Hey there. I just want to say that I'm also a fan of and their approach to this as well. I maintain a bunch of SLE Micro servers in production in my dayjob and it is legit amazing. I love as a user that is not a zero sum game and that we have some great choices in this space, as well as common areas for collaboration and innovation. As a user myself, I'm thrilled exists!

vwbusguy,
@vwbusguy@mastodon.online avatar

@kalpa For one thing, I love that and play well together such that I can easily build and test things for using from , not to mention the usefulness of OBS for generating/maintaining custom, immutable OpenSUSE images.

vwbusguy,
@vwbusguy@mastodon.online avatar

@kalpa I have no idea if this is a thing or not, but there could be some interesting potential for style tools for and/or OBS. I know it's a different beast than ostree, but it could be awesome having a Ublue + SUSE Elemental approach to innovating custom immutable desktop environments on as well.

kalpa,

@vwbusguy I've been working on some ideas, with the guys already, and you'll probably see some of that making it's way into in the coming months. I can't speak to , as I don't make the decisions there.

As far as the ability to do the image based rebasing, I'm not even certain how that would look, based on top of our stack, since we don't use ostree. Not to say it can't happen, but it's also not in our roadmap.

vwbusguy,
@vwbusguy@mastodon.online avatar

@kalpa Yeah, there is a common starting point with an OCI base, but yeah, the ostree approach is different from there, as well as installer integration. It would definitely be an effort.

jorge,
@jorge@hachyderm.io avatar

@vwbusguy @kalpa What does "ublue style" mean? 😄

We're very particular about making sure that there is no "ublue style" so just wondering what you mean by that?

vwbusguy,
@vwbusguy@mastodon.online avatar

@jorge @kalpa I don't mean style in terms of aesthetics, but rather was pondering a similar way of customizing and extending Aeon/Kalpa.

For what it's worth, I'm a little under the weather today and mentally a bit foggy, so my apologies if my words aren't coming out quite right at the moment.

jorge,
@jorge@hachyderm.io avatar

@vwbusguy @kalpa Gotcha! We just describe it as gitops.

vwbusguy,
@vwbusguy@mastodon.online avatar

@jorge @kalpa Let me ask it a different way - what might it look like to recreate the Bazzite experience out of box but based on Kalpa?

jorge,
@jorge@hachyderm.io avatar

@vwbusguy @kalpa Snagging the RPMs and building for opensuse would get you most of the way there I think?

vwbusguy,
@vwbusguy@mastodon.online avatar

@jorge @kalpa I also would think. There is that detail about difference in how those RPMs are delivered and different installers, but it doesn't seem entirely insurmountable.

kalpa,

@vwbusguy We see the upsides to the image based approach that can offer to some folks, what the folks have going on, for instance, isn't really viable with our setup. It's all just a different way to approach a common problem.

vwbusguy,
@vwbusguy@mastodon.online avatar

@kalpa Sure, but Elemental also utilizes an OCI image for boot and upgrade. I respect that it's different and wouldn't work out of box the way Ublue currently works, but it doesn't seem impossible to bridge the gap to work with SLE Micro's cos approach.

sfalken,
@sfalken@mastodon.naturalorder.me avatar

@kalpa @vwbusguy Speaking just for myself, and not for as a project, I've got zero exposure to SLE Micro/Leap Micro, just due to a lack of personal interest. So I'm really the wrong person to be asking. and Kalpa track Tumbleweed, because Richard and I both are far more interested in the rolling release model.

Doesn't mean it can't exist, just that the current group of Developers aren't interested.

That's just kind of how it goes with openSUSE…

vwbusguy,
@vwbusguy@mastodon.online avatar

@sfalken @kalpa I totally get that. It also makes sense that you're naturally more focused on making Kalpa as great as possible on its own. I'm also excited to see what some is your more innovative users might end up doing with it like what Ublue has done with Fedora. OBS and Elemental Toolkit are both great potential starting points.

Conan_Kudo,
@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org avatar

@sfalken @kalpa @vwbusguy The question you need to ask yourself: "is OCI the right mechanism to do operating system image delivery?". Based on the answer, different technology paths emerge.

Remember that RPM-OSTree didn't do it either originally, and in large part adopted it because RPM-OSTree's native image distribution format is difficult to support for mirrors and CDNs.

Since the MicroOS model enshrines client-side composition of systems, UBlue-style layered images are not as important.

sfalken,
@sfalken@mastodon.naturalorder.me avatar

@kalpa @vwbusguy @Conan_Kudo

This part, I actually didn't know, as I'm a relative latecomer as a developer to this space (After Richard bolted on top of ), and wasn't particularly involved in the world at all, so I haven't the foggiest what the early development of looked like.

vwbusguy,
@vwbusguy@mastodon.online avatar

@sfalken @kalpa @Conan_Kudo There are a whole bunch of significant asterisks to saying this, but they're both, in their own ways, derived from a CoreOS Container Linux approach (Elemental still has cos references all over the place).

https://github.com/rancher/elemental-toolkit/issues/1643

Conan_Kudo,
@Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org avatar

@vwbusguy @sfalken @kalpa Neither follow CoreOS Container Linux in any meaningful way other than superficial outward marketing. FCOS and Elemental/MicroOS have done one thing very differently from CL: they support customization. Customization was an explicit non-goal for CL and all of its descendants. That is not the case for everything else.

vwbusguy,
@vwbusguy@mastodon.online avatar

@Conan_Kudo @sfalken @kalpa Yeah, and that's not the only significant asterisk (ostree being originally a gnome thing and Atomic predating the CoreOS acquisition - SUSE having its own historical approaches with JeOS and acquiring RancherOS/k3os).

vwbusguy,
@vwbusguy@mastodon.online avatar

@Conan_Kudo @sfalken @kalpa Are there downstreams based on Aeon and Kalpa? What tools do they use?

sfalken,
@sfalken@mastodon.naturalorder.me avatar

@vwbusguy @Conan_Kudo @kalpa

well, technically Kalpa is downstream of Aeon, there is also greybeard, I don't know if moldavite is still a thing or not

vwbusguy,
@vwbusguy@mastodon.online avatar

@sfalken @Conan_Kudo @kalpa Oh, very cool. Looks like a Sericea-like MicroOS based one!

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • openSUSE
  • DreamBathrooms
  • everett
  • osvaldo12
  • magazineikmin
  • thenastyranch
  • rosin
  • normalnudes
  • Youngstown
  • Durango
  • slotface
  • ngwrru68w68
  • kavyap
  • mdbf
  • InstantRegret
  • JUstTest
  • ethstaker
  • GTA5RPClips
  • tacticalgear
  • Leos
  • anitta
  • modclub
  • khanakhh
  • cubers
  • cisconetworking
  • provamag3
  • megavids
  • tester
  • lostlight
  • All magazines