blahsay, (edited )

Nobody seems to agree on the definition of genocide I’ve noticed.

The UN requires a ‘substantial’ percentage of population loss for it to be considered genocide.

How bad did the cardacians get bajor?

taanegl, (edited )

Eh, okay. So the UN panel failed sociology. Great.

Fact is in modern times we’ve rolled cultural genocide into the definition of genocide, because even though you’re negating a body count, ultimately the results are the same.

So if you destroy someone’s culture, language, heritage, things like world heritage sites, Mosques and churches, that’s tantamount to attempting cultural genocide.

But, then again, by UN’s meager definitions, a total genocide has to happen before they act at all.


Guess I need a vacation. Maybe I’ll look up hotels in Rwanda.


Lol the Chinese probably don’t like that cultural genocide one.

I looked up the last few UN genocides and it looks like they range from anywhere from 2% of a population to 66% of a population (holocaust).


What counts as population? Probably not a household, probably not the entire planet, but that doesn’t really define much by itself.

IchNichtenLichten, avatar

“The UN Genocide Convention lists five acts that fall under its definition. Israel is currently perpetrating three of these in Gaza: “1. Killing members of the group. 2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group. 3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part.” The Israeli Air Force, by its own account, has so far dropped more than 6,000 bombs on Gaza, which is one of the most densely populated areas in the world—almost as many bombs as the US dropped on all of Afghanistan during record-breaking years of its war there. Human Rights Watch has confirmed that the weapons used included phosphorous bombs, which set fire to bodies and buildings, creating flames that aren’t extinguished on contact with water. This demonstrates clearly what Gallant means by “act accordingly”: not targeting individual Hamas militants, as Israel claims, but unleashing deadly violence against Palestinians in Gaza “as such,” in the language of the UN Genocide Convention. Israel has also intensified its 16-year siege of Gaza—the longest in modern history, in clear violation of international humanitarian law—to a “complete siege,” in Gallant’s words. This turn of phrase that explicitly indexes a plan to bring the siege to its final destination of systematic destruction of Palestinians and Palestinian society in Gaza, by killing them, starving them, cutting off their water supplies, and bombing their hospitals.”

This was written back in October, the case is even clearer now.

captainjaneway, avatar

Genocide is clearly defined, in my opinion. It’s just that it’s hard to prove. Much like hate crimes can be hard to prove. Unless Israel comes out and states their intentions behind the violence, NATO is tied. But America does not need to be providing the weapons or the funds to keep this massacre going. And genocide or not, the violence is wrong.

AFAIK Cardassians were pretty bad. They enslaved an entire planet of people. I believe the mining operations were concentration camps for the slaves.

This is the definition in Wikipedia:

In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five “acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group”. These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly.

Gaza has been experiencing all of that: murders, bodily harm, mental harm, etc. By way of example they are being starved out - not because they are terrorists but because they are part of a nation state/race which Israel is targeting.

I agree with you. Words are slippery. Dig too deep into any word and the meaning can become elusive. What is rain? Is it when water falls down from a cloud? Do we have to define the state of matter? How quickly does it fall? Is chemically induced rain still “rain”? Words are not as clear as we think they are at first glance. Genocide is no different.

I just feel like these people need to take a step back and realize that this violence is wrong. It’s not self-defense and it’s not aimed at evil people. Good, kind, people are being torn to shreds. Those people deserved to have a chance to wipe sleep out of their eyes, eat a nice meal, drink fresh water, and speak once more. I don’t really know how we would be more “actionable”. I don’t want a reckless UN that goes around ruling with an iron fist at any whiff of international dispute. But I also don’t want a weak UN that is too scared or unwilling to do the right thing when the issues are clear.

AllonzeeLV, (edited )

As George Orwell fully understood about so many of humanity’s crimes against humanity, branding is the key.

Even the Nazis didn’t refer to it casually as genocide. It was just a solution that happened to be final, and who doesn’t like lasting solutions? Bibi’s bullshit spewing mouth would have fit right in during those Nazi branding meetings.

George Carlin talking about the softening, intentional obfuscation of language comes to mind:

(side note on a tangent, a stenographer transcript of the Nazis having one of their most consequential meetings on this subject SURVIVED, and HBO, rip, made an excellent movie called Conspiracy (2001) that played out the cold monstrousness of that meeting. Worth a watch. Lots of big actors involved. Absolutely chilling from beginning to end.)

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