Phegan,

Tax him even more.

_sideffect,

I’m sure he still pays less than he should

Licksrocks,

That’s 20% of his listed net worth. On an annualized basis I’d say it’s pretty fair.

_sideffect,

Then why do I pay 36%?

Licksrocks,

You pay 36% of your annualized income, not the totality of your net worth. I didn’t dig to find his actual income for the year so I cannot speak on that percentage comparison.

LazyPhilosopher,

His networth is 5.4 billion. 20% of that is a bit over a billion… So not really.

I think you divided 5.4 billion by $275 million. Saw that it came out to almost 20. That means it’s about 5%. Easy mistake to make. I do it all the time.

BigBananaDealer,

i believe networth is what his money is for companies he owns/has stock in, not what he makes every year

LazyPhilosopher,

Yep, That’s the number I gave.

Licksrocks,

Ahh yeah you’re right.

RustyShackleford,
@RustyShackleford@programming.dev avatar

Income tax is over annual income, not your net worth, which, if, you’re smart, is mostly in investment portfolios in real estate and/or securities.

Your available liquid assets on-hand as a billionaire, should be very small.

Less than or equal to the year-on-year inflation rate as a percentage of my assets would be my rule of thumb for cash, but that’s my own pie-in-the-sky arbitrary bullshit.

LazyPhilosopher,

Yep I know this. If you look at the comment I was responding to. They said that he paid 20% of his net worth in taxes in a year. Which was not true. The comment or even replied that I was right. It’s just a math error. What you’re talking about is irrelevant. 🤷

I feel like that sounds mean but I’m not trying to be. You make very good points. It’s just not relevant to what was being said.

AdolfSchmitler,

Lol it will literally never be enough for some people

3volver,

He realizes we’ll make money worthless if they keep this shit up for too much longer.

JustZ, (edited )

Actually this is depressing news.

Elaboration by request: It’s a tiny amount of money that only sounds like a lot to the 99%. Relative to his wealth, this post is a sad reminder of the dragon’s-hoard of wealth he still has and the desolation caused by aquiring it. I want to eat this whole mother fucker and I’d settle for like half, but I am certainly not uplifted by a bite of pinky toe.

Edit: Okay, it’s uplifting that he is saying this and encouraging good citizenship. It’s a paltry amount and I won’t be pleased by it.

Ookami38,

No one asked you to be pleased about the entirety of the situation. Just look at an individual action by an individual person. It’s a step in a direction that sucks marginally less than the one we’re in. It’s a slap in the face to the ones too ashamed or greedy to do ANYTHING positive.

Should he do more? Yeah. It’s the same argument that I hold against Taylor Swift recently - She’s doing good things, and that should be acknowledged, but she’s still a billionaire, and you quite simply cannot get to that level without human rights exploitation.

Neither of these things washes the other away. We can accept them both, give praise where it’s due, and also give criticism where it’s due.

JustZ,

Yeah, you’re right.

No_Ones_Slick_Like_Gaston,

He’s leading with example.

Yes I can see where comparing one’s circumstances to him and we’re just a bunch of broke MF, but the bigger picture is he’s paying and not afraid of saying anything about that.

JustZ,

I suppose, that’s nice of him to say, somewhat uplifting after all.

Ookami38,

Would you like to elaborate? Or just gonna drop 5 words, no context, and walk away?

SwingingTheLamp,

You can add Internet Pigeon to your bird sighting logs. Like a regular pigeon, this kind flies in, shits on everything, and flies away.

Ookami38,

Man, I’ve had that on my life list for years… They make this god awful screeching call, and they seem to be everywhere

JustZ,

Screeeeeeeeee. 🐦‍⬛

Ookami38,

Upvote for actually coming back to the conversation, and for a bit of a sense of humor. Lol

Dkarma,

Based

Sam_Bass,

Shame the other greedy fucks cant do it

wildcardology,

That’s about 2 F-35s

bungalowtill,

Ah it‘s uplifting news that a billionaire pays the taxes he legally owes? Fuck this. Eat the rich.

Xanis,

I think one of the ways we can get this to happen more often is by celebrating these wins. That’s sorta a way to get good things to continue happening. It’s someone making the correct moral choice. Let’s support that while continuing to demonize the bullshit the other billionaires do.

AquaTofana,

I mean, I kind of like the fact that he’s flexing paying his taxes to other billionaires, signaling that he’s better than them for doing so. It would be kind of nice if every billionaire started flexing on one another like this and started trying to one up one another to showcase “whose the better person” sort of thing. Pipe dream, I know, but a girl CAN dream after all.

SkyezOpen,

It’s a nice dream, but I prefer my dream of IRS agents blasting open a mansion door with C4 and arresting the billionaire who pays less tax than me. Oh and while civil asset forfeiture is a thing, they can do that too. Charge the mansion with a crime and turn it into affordable housing.

MudSkipperKisser,

Yes, it is. $275m is a lot more than I’ll ever be able to contribute to society

DessertStorms, (edited )
DessertStorms avatar

That's because you haven't extracted 95 times that first.

I guarantee you - even if you haven't paid a single penny in tax your entire life, by virtue of not being a billionaire, you have contributed significantly more to society than this leech ever has or will.

It's scary how good a job the billionaires have done in convincing you (and many many others) it's somehow the other way around.

K0W4LSK1,
@K0W4LSK1@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

It’s scary how good a job the billionaires have done in convincing you (and many many others) it’s somehow the other way around.

Its honestly the one of the great psyops of history.

Dasus,

Let’s imagine a village a few thousand years ago, at harvest time. There’s one guy who’s physically much bigger than the others, didn’t do any work for the crop, and stands there with a sword to steal 80% of everything everyone else has harvested.

Then a day later he holds a gathering where he gives back 10% of what he stole and people cheer him for being charitable, because in the other villages the people who steal the grain don’t give any back at all.

Crazy.

There’s practically no other issues on Earth than ones caused by greedy rich people. We have the resources and technology to end world hunger and do other such things, but they aren’t being done because there’s no immediate profit to be extracted from it. Even though on a global, socioeconomic level, it would have massive effects, which would actually translate to better markets and profits even for capitalists, but they just need to get immediate profit, the blind ignorant fucks.

huginn,

$275m is money he took from other people’s excess production.

He didn’t make that money: he stole it and got lucky.

Cowbee,

He didn’t contribute that, workers did.

Cruxifux,

You sound like you’d be happy to let Mark Cuban fuck your wife and that’s an embarrassing look bro.

MudSkipperKisser,

Well, bro, I have a husband and I don’t think they’re each other’s type

RealFknNito,
@RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

There are no good billionaires get it through your head.

Kroxx,

I buy my meds from his online store that he set up solely to compete with the absurd pricing of pharmaceuticals in the us. Saving a good bit too. He also made millionaires of most of the employees from his first successful business before he was a billionaire. I hate billionaires and he has surely done some fucked up things, but Mark Cuban does seem to be cut from a different cloth. I definitely appreciate his pharmacy.

RealFknNito,
@RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

The thing is, there was only ever one good billionaire and he gave his money away to such a degree he was no longer a billionaire. While Mark Cuban has done good, surely even saved and improved many lives, he still has a billion more ways to do so. Plenty of good millionaires out in the world, there are no good billionaires.

The mere concept of a billion anything is so hard to comprehend that it serves repeating.

One million seconds is 12 days. One billion seconds is 32 years.

PlainSimpleGarak,

Millionaires good. Billionaires bad.

:/

RealFknNito,
@RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

Millionaires (can be) good. Billionaires (are always) bad.

PlainSimpleGarak,

Riiiiiiight.

RealFknNito,
@RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

You one of those “if you have more money than me, you have too much money” folks?

PlainSimpleGarak,

Actually the opposite. I love coming here and watching the anti-capitalist screech about “rich man bad poor man good”. I have no feelings against billionaires one way or the other.

I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of calling billionaires bad guys, but giving millionaires a pass.

RealFknNito,
@RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

It’s not hypocrisy. A billionaire is orders of magnitudes richer than a millionaire. A millionaire doesn’t have nearly the same capacity to do overwhelming good as a billionaire does.

A millionaire who chooses not to use their money to help isn’t good but a billionaire who chooses not to use their money to help is decidedly evil.

Much like how you not giving half your sandwich to a homeless guy isn’t good but a restaurant that throws out perfectly good food at the end of the night directly next to a homeless shelter is decidedly evil.

PlainSimpleGarak,

I love how you decide what good and bad means. If I am in possession of, say, $500 million, I’m not a bad person if I don’t use it to help others. It is not an individuals responsibility to give away their money to “make society better”. That’s your government leaders job. Nor am I a bad person for eating my 12" hoagie while I walk past a homeless guy. It’s my sandwich. I paid for it.

RealFknNito,
@RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

Yep, I do decide what good and bad means. The fucking concept of taxes disagrees with everything you said so kindly fuck off back to your hole, corpo rat.

PlainSimpleGarak,

Hahaha. Yeeeeeah. Stay mad, brother! Fight the machine! Don’t worry. One day glorious communism will take it’s rightful place at the top!

Kage520,

Guys! Someone did something minimally good. Let’s make sure to insult him for it so he researches how to avoid it next time.

Soulg,

When all the other billionaires don’t yeah it’s a good thing.

YeetPics,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

I don’t think frequency has any affect on morality of doing the bare fucking minimum.

olutukko,

It kimda is uplifting. Which really tells how low the bar is

DessertStorms,
DessertStorms avatar

"Obscenely rich proud for poor people to celebrate him for doing less than the bare minimum"

Other obscenely rich people doing less, doesn't make this shit uplifting nor worth praise, it still is literally less than the bare minimum. Fuck this noise.

fubbernuckin,

Hey, don’t let good be the enemy of better. A billionaire advertising taxes like a good thing is better than anything I’ve ever seen Elon musk do.

DessertStorms,
DessertStorms avatar

Except as I said, this is less than bare minimum, it doesn't even come near "good" let alone "perfect", it's literally a PR stunt designed to make you think it's good, and all you're doing here is proving how well it works as the system keeps chugging along and this billionaire, like all the others, continues getting richer at our expense.

So to paraphrase - it's bootlicking that is the enemy of progress, and you're getting a nice mouthful there.

fubbernuckin,

It was one sentence. How did you manage to misunderstand it?

bitfucker,

Man, here’s the thing. He paid his taxes right? Did Elon paid around the same amount his net worth? Did any other billionaire did?

Now, remember those people seeking clout using charity? What if more people seeking clout using charity? What if more billionaire seeking clout by paying taxes too? Sure, not “good” or “perfect”, but better. As in, 1 is better than 0 because something is better than nothing. But I’d argue that something better is a good thing in general.

Would you like me to give you some money to help your debt, but not in full or none at all? Same thing here, only the debt is to society in the form of taxes. Something is better than nothing and hence a good thing.

protist,

How is he doing “less than the bare minimum?”

kippinitreal,

Not OP, but I think he (along with other billionaire’s) got rich off of tax breaks and subsidies that were tax funded. No person can earn his kind of wealth on their own and without some sort of exploitation, usually of poor people. Paying ~4% is understandably less than bare minimum.

Habahnow, (edited )

according to forbes, his net worth is about 5.4 billion. 276 million is about 4% of his net worth paid in tax. I just checked what I payed in taxes vs my net worth. I paid about 11% of my net worth(not income) in taxes this last year. Damn that sucks looking at the numbers lol. At least he’s almost halfway towards getting there and happy to pay. I’m curious what it looks like for others. I’m in my 30s for reference in high cost of living location.

0110010001100010,
@0110010001100010@lemmy.world avatar

Net worth, in the general sense anyway, doesn’t get taxed. This is one of the ways billionaires can pay so little taxes. Outside of things like property tax, you don’t pay tax on something like a house.

If we are talking straight net worth and not income, then I paid ~10% in federal taxes last year. But again that’s not really a fair comparison as we aren’t taxed on net worth but income.

The tax system is fucked and needs a serious overhaul.

Habahnow,

Sorry I was originally responding to another comment, but I figured I’d make mine a main comment to the post. The missing context to my post, that I just added, is “According to forbes, his net worth is about 5.4 billion. 276 million is about 4% of his net worth paid in tax.”

So adding to your point that the tax system is fucked, I’m paying a higher percentage of taxes than a billionaire, and I’m not even a millionaire.

Woht24,

Wow, I paid 31%.

Pain.

JJROKCZ,

You almost certainly paid 31% of your income, not your net worth.

Woht24,

Fair, misread his comment.

protist,

That…shouldn’t be possible. You might have miscalculated

Alexstarfire,

Could be if they don’t really have any net worth.

Habahnow,

Yeah I’m hoping that person is young

Cryophilia,

But that would also mean they’re just starting their career and are making a lot of money if their tax rate is so high

Sconrad122,

Or they are just approaching net worth 0 after years of working off student loan debt. There are plenty of people who would be in position to have a near infinite or even a negative effective wealth tax rate because so many college graduates (and college dropouts) in America are starting well below zero net worth

dan, (edited )
@dan@upvote.au avatar

Depends on what you include in the percentage. 31% is definitely possible if you’re looking at the full effective tax rate, including federal, state, city (if applicable), social security, Medicare, etc.

In California, which has high state income tax, you’ll reach 30% total effective tax rate around $115-120k/year if filing single.

Also, definitely less likely, but an income around $600k/year (if filing single) will also get you a ~30% effective federal tax rate.

(numbers are rough estimates but should be close-ish)

Habahnow,

Also if the person is barely starting to work… which I hope is the case and not that this person doesn’t have a lot saved.

robocall,
@robocall@lemmy.world avatar

Is “billionaire” Trump going to brag about his large tax bill too? Oh, he’s not?

Melkath,

It's all stock assets, so he IS a billionaire, he just cant access those billions unless he liquidates his stock assets.

Ask Elon.

But don't bring up that Elon has the FCC on him for the billions of dollars he has gotten out of banks as loans on the collateral of his stock holdings, all the while everyone knowing that the second Elon starts selling his stock holdings, they plummet, and suddenly that collateral drops from billions of dollars to hundreds of thousands of dollars in value. Because that's how stocks work. But the rich need to have a way to make their worthless existences spend poor people's savings accounts.

Carighan,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

It’s all stock assets, so he IS a billionaire, he just cant access those billions unless he liquidates his stock assets.

Funny, I can’t access the number on my bank account either unless I liquidate that. Sometimes it’s soothing to know even billionaires don’t actually have a Scrooge McDuck style money bin with actual cash in it to swim around in.

Melkath,

A man with stocks as savings he needs to liquidate to use is the same as a raccoon with a giant fluffy cloud of cotton candy who will try to wash it when he finally wants to eat it.

jol,

Not sure why you’re being downvoted. Rich people’s net worth is not how much cash they have in their bank account. When you have a lot of money there are countless ways to avoid being taxed on it. The reason is obvious: politicians are part of that rich class and they decide the rules.

Melkath,

Not being downvoted on my end, so alls good.

Lemmings lean towards knuckle dragging, or so my Federverse experience has suggested.

jol,

Not sure what knuckle dragging means. But we’re all in the negatives now. I’m so confused.

Melkath,

I'm on Kbin.

Lemmy (and a whole slew of other federverse instances) content comes across, but their upvotes and downvotes don't.

If I logged into Fedia or Lemmy and found this thread, I would see different vote counts, but through Kbin, its all upvotes and 0 downvotes.

jol,

Oh that’s cool. I didn’t know that. TIL.

jaybone,

Should that be the SEC?

partial_accumen,

It’s all stock assets, so he IS a billionaire, he just cant access those billions unless he liquidates his stock assets.

You didn’t read the article did you, but even without reading it you’d know he’d have to have a huge amount of income for the year (not just stock appreciation) to have a $275 million tax bill.

‘Cuban, who is also one of the stars on ABC’s “Shark Tank,” has an estimated net worth of $5.4 billion and says his tax bill is “almost all long term capital gains,” which almost certainly triggered a federal long-term capital gains tax of 20%.’

Lets assume generously that 100% if that is long term cap gains taxes (which you only get taxed on the sale of assets). In 2023 he would have had to have sold $1.375 billion in stock he’d held for more than one year.

Melkath,

Hey. You rite.

Mark Cuban is my current rich hero.

He is a douche in all of the correct ways.

I made a deeper dig at Trump and Musk who are flexing internet stock like there haven't been 10 crashes to show us why Ian and Anthony aren't running for billionaire office this second.

Illegalmexicant,

I too, would be happy to have a $275 mil tax bill.

MossyFeathers,

Honestly, Mark Cuban seems like kind of a cool guy, for a billionaire. I’m sure he’s done nasty shit, it’s basically inevitable that even the most morally and ethically conscious person would have to do something bad in order to become a billionaire; however he doesn’t come off as being sociopathically greedy like Musk or Bezos.

scarabic,

I can basically prove with scratch paper and a pen that any average American consumer is a slaver, environmental terrorist, and imperialist. We’ve all done or supported or ignored bad shit, and actually the worst shit ever.

frezik,

He’s the one Shark who is almost a decent person. IIRC, he’s the one who ended the policy that people presenting on the show had to give up part of their company no matter if they had an accepted deal or not. He made the very good point that anyone halfway decent at business would be very hesitant to take that offer, and they were losing out on good possibilities because of it.

Still, fuck him. You can’t be a billionaire without doing shady shit somewhere.

MirthfulAlembic,
@MirthfulAlembic@lemmy.world avatar

I really dislike how much he espouses hustle culture. Like, it’s crazy to applaud children who are spending every free minute they have on a business idea as if that has no negative impacts on their childhood if they aren’t failing school. Or that he won’t buy in if the business owner has a day job because entrepreneurs should only be successful if they gamble all of their savings apparently.

ggppjj,

Eh, he has set ways of thinking that his life experience tells him is “correct” and no need to question those findings. Kinda gross, but understandable to my mind.

bappity,
@bappity@lemmy.world avatar

Cuban made costplusdrugs.com 😃
sad as it is to say, he’s probably the most moral/ethical of the bunch atm

MossyFeathers,

Oh yeah! I forgot about that. Definitely adds to the belief that he’s probably not a terrible guy irl.

foggy,

Isn’t the Virgin CEO guy a good dude? Or is that just good PR and sunglasses?

fossphi,

Never underestimate the power of sunglasses

jaybone,

Branson? No.

alvvayson,

Indeed.

And an often overlooked downside of all the tax loopholes is that asshole billionaires don’t pay tax, so they have a competitive advantage against someone like Mark Cuban.

Basically, with billionaires we are evolving them to become nastier with each generation.

grrgyle,

It’s weird because why would billionaires even need to compete amongst eachother? You don’t even need to get close to a billion to exist in what amounts to a personal, post-scarcity paradise.

crusa187,

pissing contest at whatever yacht club they decided to jet-set to that weekend.

PiJiNWiNg,

Because bank accounts are high score counters to these people

Kalkaline,
@Kalkaline@leminal.space avatar

espn.com/…/ex-gm-donnie-nelson-sues-dallas-maveri… this would be the one knock against Mark Cuban, kind of soured me to him, but I think he tries to be a good guy.

PhlubbaDubba,

Apparently his net worth is 5.4 billion, so this’d be something like 4% of what he’s worth?

I’d say it’s something at least, IIRC the current proposed wealth tax is 2%

Earthwormjim91,

Net worth taxes are stupid.

Just tax loans collateralized by stock as income, and give a deduction on the interest when they pay back the loan.

That’s currently the biggest loophole the wealthy use. They use their stock portfolios as collateral for loans, which are untaxed. Then as their portfolio grows they take out more loans to cover the old one and fund their lifestyle, or they liquidate some of their assets at the much lower capital gains tax to pay it back.

Just tax collateralized loans as realized gains and be done with it.

Cryophilia,

Just tax collateralized loans as realized gains and be done with it.

This means loan interest rates and fees will shoot up, which will hurt more than just the mega rich.

Maybe any loan secured with over $x in collateral triggers taxes? Or carve out mortgages and auto loans?

isles,

Well, carve out 1 mortgage perhaps. We have too many safe-havens in real estate.

Cryophilia,

Good point.

Habahnow,

Why are net worth taxes stupid compared to taxing loans?

Viking_Hippie, (edited )

They aren’t. They’re just operating under the false assumption that you can’t tax wealth, only income. Conveniently ignoring that property taxes exist.

Wrench,

Without a wealth tax, he could quit today, stop all the loan nonsense and just put it in conservative index funds, and his blood line would be set for generations, even if they bred like rabbits and split it 500 different ways.

partial_accumen,

Apparently his net worth is 5.4 billion, so this’d be something like 4% of what he’s worth?

We’re talking income taxes here. You’re not taxed on net worth. Income taxes are what you brought in (in cash) for that year. Since he said in the article is nearly all long term cap gains taxes that means he sold stock or assets totaling about $1.375 billion in 2023. As in, with the sale of those assets thats how he had a taxable income large enough to generate that tax bill. Note: long term cap gains taxes are at a 20% rate.

1371113,

He sold a majority stake in the Mavs. That’ll be where most of the tax bill comes from. Wants to use the money for something else. Still working with the team operationally.

Maeve,

I bet E*** loved that!

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