Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

“An IDF spokesperson said he was kneeling to light a molotov”

Every single word in there is a lie. Wow.

Kbobabob,

Nader told the AP that the object was a stack of cardboard boxes and scraps of paper that 17-year-old Osaid Rimawi had gathered and was preparing to light to keep the men warm.

Pretty fucked up

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Aljazeera also just released this video of the IDF Nazis shooting civilians fleeing on the “safe route” youtu.be/qGsy2xTXpfY

Arete,

At the extreme left of the video you can see a man in the middle of the road kneel down to light something on fire. The men contend that it was a pile of cardboard they wanted to burn for warmth. The Israeli’s counter that it was a Molotov cocktail.

It doesn’t look like a Molotov cocktail, but personally I don’t buy the “warmth” story. Who lights cardboard on fire in the street for warmth? I think a far more likely scenario, given the men knew Israeli soldiers were nearby and didn’t leave while others did, is that they were attempting to show some resistance by burning shit. This pissed off the Israeli’s, who shot at them.

Seems like murder given the lack of an immediate threat.

pastermil,

Who lights cardboard on fire in the street for warmth?

People who got everything they have taken away from them, apparently 🙄

Arete,

These people have houses mate. Watch the video for proof.

Not even the homeless would burn scrap cardboard/paper in an uncontained little pile in the middle of the street. That would provide next to zero warmth and would require the person to sit in the middle of the street.

pastermil,

Not even the homeless in US could compare to Gaza. Also, just because you see someone still has a home, doesn’t mean everyone does. The ones that do don’t want to set it on fire. Wait, you don’t think they have functional proper heating in there, do you?

Arete,

This wasn’t in Gaza, and the interview is done in the wounded man’s house. Read first, then virtue signal.

pastermil,

Are you saying West Bank is much better than Gaza?

What is your point, exactly? A bunch of people lighting bonfire on the ruins of their own hometown deserve to get shot?

Arete,

… I said it looked like murder. There’s just no satisfying you people. And for the record the West Bank is much better off than Gaza.

Maggoty,

The desert is pretty cold at night. Lighting trash on fire for warmth is credible.

badbytes,

Appears?

Lightrider,
Lemminary,

Right, he personally ordered the killings from the white house, yep.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Well he's funding the people doing the killing.

TheDankHold,

He’s personally delivering his own money? There’s more to a government than the president. Congress votes on funding like this.

Too many people obsess exclusively over the US president as though checks and balances don’t exist. Maybe if we start talking shit about local representatives too we can get people aware of the many other ways they can influence the country outside of whining every 4 years that all the political canvassing they didn’t do hasn’t resulted in acceptable candidates.

I do agree with your position on Palestine btw, but this messaging is so unhelpful.

IlliteratiDomine,
@IlliteratiDomine@infosec.pub avatar

There’s more to a government than the president. Congress votes on funding like this.

About that

Lemminary,

Which is very different, and he’s not the one or the only one in charge of that. So why aren’t we calling out the people more directly responsible for this? There are other top politicians pushing for this and the majority of those are living in Israel. This is, after all, a World News community and many of us don’t live in the USA. From my POV, this is all a little too ridiculous, nearsighted, and somewhat of an egocentric rhetoric.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Let’s say that the Uvalde cops instead of doing nothing went in to the school and gave the school shooter more guns, ammo, a vehicle to drive to the next school, and shot anyone trying to stop the school shooter.

That is how insanely stupid it is to say that America is not responsible for knowingly arming genocidal Nazi israel while they are in the process of committing genocide.

Lemminary,

The thing is that I’m not arguing against anything that you said. It’s horrible that he’s enabling this, which is very different. And even then, he’s not even handing the support out all on his own. What I’m saying is, why are you treating Biden like he’s the one directing the whole operation and murdering people himself? Give credit where it’s due and stop exaggerating.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Because Biden is the one with full power to stop this at any moment if he so desired?

Because Biden is actively providing Intel to israel?

Because Biden bypassed Congress to give more bombs to Isreal last month?

Because Biden sent three aircraft carriers to stop anyone from retaliating?

Because Biden says he is a Zionist himself?

Stop excusing Genocide Joe. He is just as responsible if not more responsible than Netanyahu. He is the key player that enables this genocide.

Lemminary, (edited )

Stop excusing Genocide Joe.

Nobody’s excusing him. Listen to the fucking argument and stick to it.

He is just as responsible if not more responsible than Netanyahu

He’s not. That’s my whole point. He’s not the one issuing orders. If I gave you a gun and you misuse it, that’s on you. You can’t say I’m responsible for the murder you committed, even if I enabled your behavior. I would not be the murderer. Is that clear? Can we hold two ideas at once? Do you realize what I’m saying? Or are you just gonna generally argue at me like I’m saying something else that you’d rather talk about?

Because Biden sent three aircraft carriers to stop anyone from retaliating?

Exactly, because there’s a bigger picture here, but all you care about is blindly blaming one person in some sort of big bad wolf fantasy of yours. Netanyahu and his entire administration is the one pulling the trigger, which is part of the argument. You’re overlooking decades of severe conflict with Palestine. The rage, the pain, the suffering on both sides. They want to murder each other and they don’t need Biden’s blessings for that. They themselves are also taking advantage of the opportunity and we have to recognize that. Because even if Biden did stop supplying arms to Israel, the war would not end. Israel won’t listen. The conflict would spill over to neighboring countries. It’s complex. I can’t believe I have to spell it out when we’ve grown up hearing about this our entire lives.

Limitless_screaming,
Limitless_screaming avatar

I am sure that he'd personally hand the soldier his gun, if he was ordered to.

Lemminary, (edited )

Yeah, yeah, he’ll personally decapitate babies with a sword. He’ll do anything.

OccamsTeapot,

“Appears to show” like it’s not a video and not something that happens every day.

nicolairathjen,

But it does appear that way. And they probably didn’t get any “real” confirmation that the video is real.

OccamsTeapot,

I get it, I just think it’s a bit weasel-y when people describe video footage that way. Like were they provoked? Did they kill one? It’s not that complicated.

Israel said they were “kneeling to light a Molotov cocktail” and so it wasn’t unprovoked. Problems are a) no Molotov cocktail in the clip and b) they shot someone else first, not the person kneeling. So let’s put on our fucking Sherlock hats and solve this mystery oh wow I wonder whatever could have happened

wrath_of_grunge,
wrath_of_grunge avatar

a careful cut or edit, could make all the difference.

given that the video is specifically presented as 'unprovoked' i'm going to guess it wasn't.

VikingHippie,

Given that the video is specifically presented as ‘unprovoked’ i’m going to guess it wasn’t.

Yeah, because your aversion to declarative headlines changes the fact that IDF does that all the fucking time 🙄

OccamsTeapot,

Yeah in that case I’m going to guess Israel was torturing innocents just out of shot. Since we can just ignore the video and believe what we want

Limitless_screaming,
Limitless_screaming avatar

Looks like the soldier was far away from them, and they weren't even looking in his direction. What could they have done to provoke him? And why did he shoot the person who came back to help later?

Let your imagination run wild and lets see what you can come up with.

Maggoty,

Hi. Friendly local combat vet here. This was absolutely murder. Nobody is visibly carrying weapons and the kneeling guy isn’t doing anything from the kneeling position. If he had a Molotov he’d have to come up with it to throw it. Which gives any trained soldier with their gun up and ready an eternity to shoot him. Furthermore there’s no reason to shoot at the others. The volley of bullets is absolutely too much force for what might be one guy, away from the group. Operating procedures for infantry are pretty clear for this, the soldier that spots the possible threat stays on it until told otherwise and the squad leader either has confidence in him or calls for his best shooter to take over.

It’s impossible for us to know if this is a training problem, a command climate problem, or a straight up murder problem, but it takes a lot of de-humanization, hate, or fear to shoot at unarmed people. All of which are supposed to be tightly controlled by leaders. For example we drew the line at carrying weapons in 2003. If you had a weapon and weren’t actively surrendering, you were a “target” not a person. Until someone picked up a weapon though they were people deserving of our best efforts to protect them and speed them away from the combat area.

The IDF in no way meets these standards. For that alone they should be shamed and embargoed.

blazeknave,

What country are you from? I respect your perspective and thoughtfulness. I really appreciate you spending the effort on this comment.

Maggoty,

The US. And yeah I’m aware that even at our best we had failures.

blazeknave,

You’d think the 99% of posters that descend from European genocidal countries or colonisers, would cut us some slack for seeing our own warts, but it’s easier to hate us and those of us stuck with the shit parts

NoneOfUrBusiness,

It’s impossible for us to know if this is a training problem, a command climate problem, or a straight up murder problem,

From this video? Yes. From the fact that the IDF is currently committing honest to God genocide, it's the latter.

Maggoty,

Oh I’m not talking about a training deficit for this one squad. I’m talking force wide. One way to commit war crimes is to just never train scenarios with civilians. Train that everything not in a friendly uniform is a threat. Notably command climate is also a war crime. That’s why we hung the Nazi officers who tried to say they never “ordered” any crimes, even though there was massive evidence of crimes being committed.

There’s no screenshot scenario where this isn’t a war crime. It’s just a matter of how deep the rot goes. I’m sorry I wasn’t clear about that.

Edited because of Google Autocorrect. Left because it’s funny in an absurdist millennial kind of way.

Pancito, (edited )
@Pancito@lemmy.world avatar

Not that anything justifies killing, but were they trying to set something on fire? Again, this would not justify anything.

steventhedev,

Yes - a pile of something in the middle of the road.

The youths said it was a pile of cardboard and paper to help keep them warm. Admittedly, it was around 10°C (50°F) over the last few nights at 2am.

VikingHippie, (edited )

Cardboard. For warmth. Because the Israeli government has taken away the electricity and fuel they’d otherwise use.

unreasonabro,

don’t light fires when the nazguls are about

Maggoty,

Deserts get really cold at night, especially in the winter.

NevermindNoMind,

As others have said, a like of wood and paper form warmth. The important part though is the person kneeling to light that on fire was not shot first, someone else standing nearby was killed. Then two other people running to the victims aid where then shot. When one of those guys trys to crawl away he gets shot again. Then when the IDF troops get there, they don’t seem to give a shit about the pile of wood/paper, they just look at they guy they killed, kick one of the wounded guys on the ground, and then leave without providing any aid.

The IDF’s story is they thought the guy lighting the pile was lighting a moltov cocktail. Bullshit, but even if so, why not shoot that guy doing the lighting instead of just some other random nearby guy? Or how do the guys coming to the first guys aid pose any kind of threat?

What’s really fucked is nothing will come of this. Just another dead Palestinian.

Maggoty,

Jesus I couldn’t bring myself to keep watching. They didn’t have their medic provide aid? That’s a war crime all on it’s own.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

They didn’t have their medic provide aid?

Why would you help the guy you explicitly, unprovokedly tried to kill?

Maggoty,

In a normal engagement (as normal as combat gets at any rate) you would absolutely provide aid, even to enemy fighters. Once you get up to them and they’re out of combat you’re responsible for them under international law.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

No no I meant: These people weren't in combat and were shot anyway. Intentionally. The monsters who shot them wanted them dead, so it makes a sick kind of sense that they wouldn't provide them aid after the fact.

Maggoty,

Yeah, it does. It definitely puts the cap on any question as to their motives.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • world@lemmy.world
  • rosin
  • DreamBathrooms
  • InstantRegret
  • magazineikmin
  • GTA5RPClips
  • Youngstown
  • slotface
  • thenastyranch
  • Durango
  • cisconetworking
  • everett
  • kavyap
  • tacticalgear
  • mdbf
  • bokunoheroacademia
  • khanakhh
  • osvaldo12
  • cubers
  • ethstaker
  • normalnudes
  • Leos
  • anitta
  • modclub
  • tester
  • HellsKitchen
  • lostlight
  • relationshipadvice
  • sketchdaily
  • All magazines