Bloonface
Bloonface avatar

Bloonface

@Bloonface@kbin.social

Filth wizard and Internet bellend.

Main account on Fine City Social (Calckey) - Home page

Other Fedi things:
Swear Clock - Joobly Crooblins - Shartmaildottxt

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

You can't create two magazines with the same name as the check for that is case insensitive (e.g. I own /m/uwotm8, you can't create /m/UWotM8 as the software checks for that).

So it's mainly a UX thing relating to URLs, which does need to be solved.

OC The branding for kbin is perfect

The branding for kbin is perfect for capturing the reddit migrators. The biggest friction point for the Fediverse is choosing an instance. If I want to join Lemmy, googling Lemmy takes me to a landing page with no join button, telling me to go to these other sites. Some of these sites even actively discourage signups, creating...

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

I think the maxim of "if you're explaining, you're losing" applies here.

Having a long tutorial on what federation is and what an instance is, when the vast majority of people don't even understand what a server is, is just going to make people think "this is too complex" and put them off.

People had the instance thing explained to them in many different ways with Mastodon and it never sunk in because it was seen as needlessly complex. It's a barrier to entry.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

In theory, Kbin (the network) has the potential to be as fragmented as Lemmy. It's just obscured by the fact that we're all on the biggest instance, and that that instance presently doesn't federate with anyone.

How that will change if/when federation becomes a thing, I don't know. But I'm probably going to die inside the first time I see people saying to complete newbies "don't join Kbin.social! Join some random other server that sees nothing so you'll get bored and leave", which is what happened with Mastodon.

Bloonface,
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It's so silly. It's one of those things that works great from the perspective of a) an instance owner or b) someone who really strongly believes in decentralisation as a universal good. It does not work from the perspective for someone whose use of social media is to talk to people and read shit.

Bloonface,
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Surprised that nobody's pointed out the obvious:

It was the middle of the night in the US. All the Americans, that tend to dominate English-speaking forums, are just waking up.

Bloonface,
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The thing is, you're doing the exact thing that the article mentions about forgiving defects in a product - and not interrogating whether there are any changes needed or things that it could do better - because you are close to it and invested in it.

It's not the job of some random user who wants to shitpost on $amicrobloggingapp to put in work to nurture an alternative that doesn't properly meet their needs. Most will accept that a growing platform will be quieter than the one they're leaving; they will not accept quiet and, from their point of view, broken as a platform.

And frankly, a lot of people did put in that work too, and got treated with suspicion and hostility. New users can't seem to ever win; they try to stick around and shape $whateveritis to meet their needs, they get accused of trying to take over and change the direction of someone else's home. They leave, they weren't committed enough to the vision, or in your words patient enough to make it work.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

Because all of the users they like and want to talk to stayed there too.

Network effects are a powerful driver. They can be overcome, but not easily.

Bloonface,
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I don't think Mastodon is as resistant to enshittification as everyone seems to think. Or rather, I think the drivers towards enshittification still exist - primarily, economic pressures relating to operational costs, and the human cost of managing communities - but because there is no actual revenue stream that can even potentially be gained from enshittification and the users won't tolerate anything that might amount to it, what winds up instead happening is that instances just close when their admins either run out of money or burn out. The service on instance X doesn't get "enshittified", it just ends.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

Not the person you're replying to, but if I want to use a Twitter-alike, I want to use a UI geared towards that. If I want to use a Reddit-alike, I want to use a UI geared towards that.

The idea of using Twitter to interact with a Reddit post sounds horrible, or Twitter to interact with YouTube (or YouTube to interact with Twitter!)

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

The problem here is what the article says - Mastodon isn't competing against the primitive Twitter of 2008, it's competing against the much more mature and generally huge Twitter of 2023.

I think comparing follower numbers is a bad metric - it's very easy to be a big fish in a small pond, and Mastodon's pond is very small indeed, and has shrunk dramatically in terms of active users since December.

Bloonface,
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To an extent, influencers wouldn't get on with Mastodon anyway.

Looking at it charitably from their point of view, the discovery is so poor that actually building a following there is a huge amount of work they probably won't see a return on. It's a much smaller audience that in no small part resents even the idea of an "influencer" - someone who has that as their line of work is going to struggle and consider it not worth their time.

Looking at it less charitably, Mastodon does not reward activity on its own but instead things only get attention if they're actually worth attention, so carpet-bombing fedi with posts most people don't actually value is a waste of their time, and it's a lot more effort than such people would typically be willing to expend.

Bloonface,
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The thing that's interesting to me is this:

That said, what I do think helps here is that Kbin has a much lower barrier to entry. I find it much easier to sign up on here than trying to determine which Mastodon instance to use and I think that helps tremendously.

Kbin is technically federated and Kbin.social is technically just an instance on a federated network, the federation is just broken right now. But the simple fact of that not being a consideration, and everyone signing up on Kbin.social, has led to comments like this where "it's so much easier".

It rather proves my point; putting decentralised whatever front and centre makes things pointlessly complex and offputting to end users. They don't want to think about this shit, they just want to read stuff and post. The less they have to think about this shit, and/or the less this shit has an impact on their experience, the better for them.

Pssst... any ideas for a domain name for the new instance?

Hi there! I've been trying to improve the situation for the past few hours. I managed to disable CF Protection, and as you can see, I'm gradually allowing traffic from the fediverse. There may still be delays in deliveries and posts for some time. If anything is particularly troublesome, please let me know through the contact...

Bloonface,
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The "value proposition of the Fediverse" as defined by you is something of basically no interest to people who ultimately want to have Reddit but not Reddit, who are also coincidentally the people most likely to be attracted to Kbin.

The Mastodon migration got screwed up by people pushing their purist version of decentralisation over decent UX, Christ help us if Kbin blows its chance in the same way.

Bloonface,
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It also confused the shit out of newbies who neither know nor care what an instance is and find the idea too outside of their existing comprehension or level of caring to wrap their heads around.

Bloonface,
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This is about where I land.

It's essentially an open market of instances, if people find more utility on big ones - as they are very likely to, since being on small ones makes the new user experience suck big dangly balls - then maybe that says more about the general attractiveness of the fediverse concept to end users than it does about either those users or the instances concerned.

Bloonface,
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If it is like Mastodon, then the more users you have, the more servers you'll federate with, the more posts you will pull down, the more disk space you consume and the more you'll have to actively manage your disk space and probably continually seek more system resources.

I would honestly say to give it a few months and see if you're still here before taking the plunge, which as a side benefit will allow you to wait for more admin information and documentation to be created.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

I honestly think that if you care about adoption of Kbin then closing down the flagship instance is going to be absolutely toxic.

It was bad enough in November 22 when people went to "Mastodon" (i.e. Mastodon.social) and got turned away, it made people think the entire network was closed, and all the explanations just sounded like nonsense to people coming from Twitter who'd just heard about this cool Mastodon site that was going to fix everything.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

people just got extremely lazy when all they have to do is open of the 5 mega-platforms like Twitter and Reddit to access everything.

That's a funny way of saying "to an end user, not having to give a shit about what instance you're on is an objectively easier and thus better experience".

Particularly when most people couldn't tell you what a server even is. It just makes them confused because it's neither something they understand nor something they're going to be motivated to care about.

If using a platform feels like hard work compared to its competitors, that's a failing of the platform, not of users. Users don't owe the platform anything.

I can guarantee there are also plenty of things you, in common with everyone else, simply do not care about and cannot be convinced to care about, and would similarly consider it an imposition to be required to care about them or be judged as "lazy".

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