Bloonface
Bloonface avatar

Bloonface

@Bloonface@kbin.social

Filth wizard and Internet bellend.

Main account on Fine City Social (Calckey) - Home page

Other Fedi things:
Swear Clock - Joobly Crooblins - Shartmaildottxt

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

The flipside is that a standard's not really open and a network founded on one isn't really resilient if certain groups or corporates arbitrarily aren't seen as "allowed" to use it, or if conversely a big corporate joining it is so toxic to the entire endeavour that it must be blocked on sight.

Chris Trottier, someone who I disagree with quite a lot and is a far bigger advocate for decentralisation as a public good than I am, is quite sanguine about P92 on those grounds.

Personally, I have no plans on my instances to submit P92 to any more stringent rules than I would with any other server blocks, that is I will give them exactly enough rope to hang themselves with.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

Once Meta gets their foot in the door, I guarantee they will try to bully the fediverse into doing things their way. Hard pass for me.

Can you give any reasonable by means in which they could do this and succeed?

So much of this stuff just sounds like infeasible conspiracy theories. If, hypothetically, Meta did do such a thing (somehow, still not clear how or frankly why?) all that it would mean is that anyone who disagreed could defederate from Meta, or would be defederated from Meta... which given half the servers in existence seem to want to defed them up front anyway, doesn't seem to make any odds.

It's all just very confusing hearing about these lurid ideas for things Meta could do with the fediverse that simply don't make a lick of sense either in terms of motivation or implementation.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

It'd be entirely open to Meta to simply turn off federation, in the same way that Truth Social and Counter Social have.

But honestly if I were them, given the hostile reaction I'd probably just do that and knock the whole ActivityPub thing on the head. It feels like a waste of time when realistically they would get more people on Threads/P92 in one day than a million Musk-buying-Twitters could do with Mastodon. Then everyone is happy - no Meta on fedi, Meta gets its new exciting Twitter clone that it fully controls.

Put it this way - either they're up to some form of non-specific evil, in which case they can probably achieve whatever goals they have far more concretely if they fully control the content on Threads, or they're not and all this is actually in good faith, in which case they're doing this for the benefit of a few hundred thousand fedi nerds who have reacted mostly with hostility and are going to block it on sight.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

While they at first would adopt open standards and protocols, what stops them from creating proprietary extensions and using those and its dominance and resources to make it difficult for users to switch to other platforms in the Fediverse?

Nothing, which should probably raise concerns around how good a standard ActivityPub actually is if all it takes to drive a truck through its intent is one bad actor.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

I don't want Facebook to have access to my account information, posts and comments.

I hate to break it to you, but the very nature of the fediverse (as a distributed network where posts and account information automatically get distributed to hundreds if not thousands of independent servers you may or may not be aware of, that do not necessarily have to honour your deletion requests) means that it would be absolutely trivial for either Facebook or any other random bad actor you could think of to have access to all of that, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

This is an example I've given a few times, but if Meta were really just wanting to suck down data for the evulz (why they would do this I have absolutely no idea because it's not like they could use that data for anything), they don't need to start an instance amid a blaze of publicity. They could just go on Mastodon.social, sign up for a no-name account, grab an API key and suck down the contents of the fediverse in real time and that's the end of it. The fediverse is not private and its very nature means that control over one's own data is not quite as secure as ActivityPub advocates would like to pretend.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

God thank you, I swear some people fail to realise just how ActivityPub federation works!

Post something on fedi and you lose effective control over it; for all intents and purposes, it's out there on hundreds of different servers who don't have to respect your deletion requests, and it's never coming back.

And to be perfectly honest, I'm more comfortable with Meta archiving all my shitposts than, I dunno, all the nazis.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

For some reason, your link doesn't work.

The second part of your comment doesn't answer my question, nor would "they want our data!!!" explain why Meta would want or need to create an instance in order to get it, or how the "data" (what data? Your posts? The ones that ActivityPub syndicates to hundreds of other servers automatically? Do you know exactly which servers your posts are on at the moment?) of other users on other fedi instances could somehow be "monetised" by them.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

But that wasn't my point. It's not that I think that Facebook or Google cannot scrape Fediverse platforms/instances, it's that even if they do, they cannot serve targeted ads based on our activity here.

This is another one of those things where Meta's claimed motivations for this don't seem to stack up.

How exactly are Meta supposed to serve "targeted ads" to me, @bloonface, if I am on finecity.social and not [whatever Meta's instance is]?

If I don't have an account on their service, and never visit their website, they have no opportunity to put a tracking cookie on my computer, no opportunity to serve an ad to me (other than directly messaging me, behaviour which would absolutely get them defedded instantly by anyone who is even close to being on the fence about their presence), no link between my finecity.social account and any Meta accounts I may have... what benefit do they obtain from this?

Bluntly - how is this dastardly plan of theirs actually physically supposed to work?

A lot of people seem to have ascribed omnipotent powers to Meta far beyond what they are actually technically capable of. They can't deliver you a tracking cookie or make your instance display a banner ad to you through ActivityPub, ffs.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

I mean, it is just one bad actor.

If you look at it in these terms, you understand that Facebook has an interest in making sure that ActivityPub doesn't too large without Facebook having a say in it.

I don't think that ActivityPub is having any present difficulty keeping itself niche without Facebook's help - fedi has a total active user base of something like 2million, it's very literally a rounding error on Meta's user numbers. If there's a battle here, Facebook is already winning.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

OK, I've read that link and it still doesn't really explain how exactly Meta intends to monetise other peoples' posts - "collect data from and monetise", how exactly are they going to monetise other peoples' posts on other instances, when they have no ability to e.g. serve ads to those people?

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

I mean... realistically, why would that be their fault if they were to start a fedi instance and everyone else blocked them?

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

Their following press releases would probably spin a very different narrative about immature tech and privacy concerns.

What else do you expect them to do? Say "oh yeah I guess a bunch of guys on fedi say we are arseholes, so we must be"?

Bloonface, (edited )
Bloonface avatar

It's been quite funny seeing people talking about how Meta is going to come onto fedi and scrape everyone's Mastodon posts.

  1. Inasmuch as Meta gives a shit about scraping content, it is so that they can translate that into marketing reach. They don't give a shit about your toots because they have no reasonable means of generating value for themselves from those posts, because they have no way of making you look at ads based upon them.
  2. Even if they could somehow generate value from your posts, they don't need to start an ActivityPub-based social network to scrape everything you say. They can just open a no-name account on a reasonably-well federated server like Mastodon.social, grab an API key and suck down as much as they please. There's no mechanism to prevent them from doing so.
  3. ActivityPub is not private and never has been. While obviously it's morally dubious to scrape fedi, there's nothing technologically preventing anyone from doing so, and frankly there are many worse actors that could do so than Meta.
  4. The normal operation of ActivityPub itself means that the moment your post gets federated to other servers, you lose final control over its viewership and destination.

Basically I think if you don't want other people you may not want seeing, downloading or storing what you have to say, don't post it publicly and definitely don't use ActivityPub.

Sorry, bit of a tangent, but a lot of people are pretty oblivious to how obnoxiously unprivate fedi is.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

YouGov is a top-tier reputable polling company that weights its samples to avoid any such confounding factors.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

That kind of oversells what bias they might have.

They're well known as a reputable and honest polling organisation, regardless of their origins.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

In addition to games, which is one of the primary reasons I use my PC, I don't like LibreOffice and I don't like the big Linux desktop environments that exist and I can't be bothered to sort through the smaller ones to find one I vibe with, when I'm perfectly happy with Windows as a desktop OS.

WSL offers the best of both worlds.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

Proton can't run a lot of the games I want to play and like to play.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

This is one of the key issues with the entire Fediverse setup and it's not one there are any good answers to.

Not least since it makes being on the biggest instance objectively the best experience, this defeating the point of decentralisation.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

Gotta say I have no love for the big leftist subs but that's a pretty cheap shot.

Their choosing to purchase luxuries, in a world where luxuries must be paid for in a system they didn't design, choose or want to live under, doesn't negate that they are opposed to capitalism.

If you want to argue that they're possibly a bit too sanguine about the prospect of their favourite luxuries existing under communism or whatever, fair enough. But that's a separate argument from whether they're stupid to pay money for stuff that makes them happy.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

Nobody. But they want to have Reddit coins to reward people who do things they like. So they have to pay for them to satisfy that want.

They might also pay for pizza, beer and cinema tickets too. Same difference.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

Yeah but you can tell from the context that search results are just a list of random web pages that maybe what Google says is bollocks.

Google gives you a bunch of results and says "here, look at these". LLMs confidently tell you things that they may have simply made up and present them as if they're real.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

On the flip side, they provide an inherently unprofitable high-cost service that, unlike virtually all others, actually does compensate its content creators.

Nobody I talk to about this ever seems to have any idea as to where the money is supposed to come from other than not ads and not blocking adblockers and not reducing bandwidth costs. So in other words... Nowhere.

Honestly... Leave YouTube alone. Even with ads, everyone's getting a pretty good deal out of Google on that one. You don't want to be sharing or taking on their costs.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

Everybody gangsta until they realise that their usage of services incurs costs

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

That is precisely why I run my own instance, it's essentially a backup from YouTube of my own dumb videos: https://peertube.bloonface.com

But honestly that's pretty much all it is. It's not really worth much more than that to me.

Bloonface,
Bloonface avatar

Me and my partner pay jointly for Premium and I wouldn't want to go back. No ads on any device we watch on, knowing that the creators get a good chunk of change from it, is bliss.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • bokunoheroacademia
  • magazineikmin
  • khanakhh
  • everett
  • slotface
  • Youngstown
  • cisconetworking
  • kavyap
  • DreamBathrooms
  • mdbf
  • rhentai
  • Durango
  • rosin
  • InstantRegret
  • relationshipadvice
  • thenastyranch
  • ethstaker
  • osvaldo12
  • tester
  • modclub
  • cubers
  • GTA5RPClips
  • tacticalgear
  • normalnudes
  • Leos
  • lostlight
  • HellsKitchen
  • sketchdaily
  • All magazines