Bloonface
Bloonface avatar

Bloonface

@Bloonface@kbin.social

Filth wizard and Internet bellend.

Main account on Fine City Social (Calckey) - Home page

Other Fedi things:
Swear Clock - Joobly Crooblins - Shartmaildottxt

Bloonface,
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Boris Johnson in "liar" shocker.

This should end his career but then again, there's been lots of other things that should have ended his career well before this and didn't.

Bloonface,
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The sort of sneering at newbies is exactly the sort of shit that in no small part gave Mastodon a reputation of being hostile to outsiders.

If we want this shit to take off as something other than a nerd curio, it needs to be accessible, not delivered with a side helping of judgment for not being 100% on board with the endeavour from the beginning.

Bloonface,
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Absolutely. In my experience, there's a really strong tendency from people who are already all-in on fedi to treat "this thing doesn't have feature X that my previous site Y did" as simple whining and respond to it with hostility rather than constructive criticism, you can see that with the thin-skinned reaction to some criticisms of Mastodon back in November about e.g. lack of quote posts or poor discovery features.

They don't treat it as constructive criticism or actual feedback from users but instead as an assault on something they identify with personally, which is a recipe for disaster

Bloonface,
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Yudkowsky really is one of those people who's a stopped clock. I wish he'd focus on that sort of stuff more than the mad AI crap.

Bloonface,
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The problem with this assessment is that we've tried the approach of reasoning with people like this and all it does is allow them to proselytise. They don't want a polite debate, they want a pulpit.

A neo-Nazi who's stuffed in a box talking to other neo-Nazis is a neo-Nazi who's not infesting some other place trying to spread shit about "race realism". They'll find it a lot harder to "march on Washington" when it's just a couple hundred Nazis and not a couple hundred Nazis plus thousands of others they've radicalised.

Sunlight's a shitty disinfectant. I prefer bleach.

When introducing members to kbin/lemmy don't mention the fediverse!

I introduced kbin to someone today who asked what the fediverse was. I answered for them of course, but it made me realize that the concept is still technobabble for most people. The average joe probably doesn't care or notice that server A is really talking to server B. Just have them find out on their own and if a mass...

Bloonface,
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Everyone has used the "email" metaphor since the Mastodon migration back in 2022 and it still sounds overcomplicated, because frankly from the point of view of someone used to a single service on a single website, it is.

It really is better to ignore the whole federation stuff entirely while you're getting people on board.

Bloonface,
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You are repeating the same mistakes that were made with Mastodon if you bamboozle people with a bunch of shit they frankly don't care about when you try and sell them on a replacement for a site they already use.

Bloonface,
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Yes, but apparently it's not enough to actually get people using this Fediverse thing, they also have to be completely sold on all of its technical and ideological underpinnings and you need to make sure they are right at the point where they might be willing to try it.

I mean, who wants users if they unbellyfeel fediverse?

Bloonface,
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In my view the issue with explanations of the Fediverse in general is that they all seem to rely on people either already having a rough understanding of what a server is and how that relates to them. If you don't have those priors then the concept will simply not register.

Frankly a lot of people had trouble understanding subreddits, let alone client-server architectures for online services. They just saw Reddit as "an app", or Twitter as "an app". The stuff behind that is essentially magic to them, but is also abstracted away so it's not their problem. The fediverse seems to make that their problem in a very confrontational way, not helped by a) some people insisting that prior knowledge of how fedi works is necessary for participation and b) the fact that unlike email (the most popular metaphor) communication between instances is neither fully automatic nor often transparent to the end user.

To be blunt, it's nerd shit. Nerds like it but to everyone else, it's just nerd shit. Most people don't want nerd shit getting in the way of their online time.

The best way to explain the Fediverse, to my mind, is to not. Anyone who's interested will find out about it, anyone who's not can just use it. I don't need to understand the mechanics of a hybrid drivetrain, lithium ion batteries and combustion engines to drive my car. I just press the "Start" button and drive it.

Bloonface,
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I don't really agree with this because the fediverse is not only interconnected by a technology (ActivityPub) but also by some shared values, like inclusivity and kindness to each other.

That's kind of overegging the pudding. There's nothing intrinsically "nice" about fedi, quite a lot that isn't, and this feels like a promise that will be very rapidly seen as hollow lies the moment someone has a negative interaction, as well they might.

Bloonface,
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I'm going to keep banging the drum here that the fact Kbin.social exists and is basically the instance is why it's gaining traction over Lemmy, which is far more splintered.

Not having to choose an instance massively reduces the barrier to entry for newbies. I really don't think we should be pushing people to other instances if we can help it right now, that can be a consideration further down the line.

Bloonface,
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You can't create two magazines with the same name as the check for that is case insensitive (e.g. I own /m/uwotm8, you can't create /m/UWotM8 as the software checks for that).

So it's mainly a UX thing relating to URLs, which does need to be solved.

OC The branding for kbin is perfect

The branding for kbin is perfect for capturing the reddit migrators. The biggest friction point for the Fediverse is choosing an instance. If I want to join Lemmy, googling Lemmy takes me to a landing page with no join button, telling me to go to these other sites. Some of these sites even actively discourage signups, creating...

Bloonface,
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I think the maxim of "if you're explaining, you're losing" applies here.

Having a long tutorial on what federation is and what an instance is, when the vast majority of people don't even understand what a server is, is just going to make people think "this is too complex" and put them off.

People had the instance thing explained to them in many different ways with Mastodon and it never sunk in because it was seen as needlessly complex. It's a barrier to entry.

Bloonface,
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In theory, Kbin (the network) has the potential to be as fragmented as Lemmy. It's just obscured by the fact that we're all on the biggest instance, and that that instance presently doesn't federate with anyone.

How that will change if/when federation becomes a thing, I don't know. But I'm probably going to die inside the first time I see people saying to complete newbies "don't join Kbin.social! Join some random other server that sees nothing so you'll get bored and leave", which is what happened with Mastodon.

Bloonface,
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It's so silly. It's one of those things that works great from the perspective of a) an instance owner or b) someone who really strongly believes in decentralisation as a universal good. It does not work from the perspective for someone whose use of social media is to talk to people and read shit.

Bloonface,
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Surprised that nobody's pointed out the obvious:

It was the middle of the night in the US. All the Americans, that tend to dominate English-speaking forums, are just waking up.

Pssst... any ideas for a domain name for the new instance?

Hi there! I've been trying to improve the situation for the past few hours. I managed to disable CF Protection, and as you can see, I'm gradually allowing traffic from the fediverse. There may still be delays in deliveries and posts for some time. If anything is particularly troublesome, please let me know through the contact...

Bloonface,
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The "value proposition of the Fediverse" as defined by you is something of basically no interest to people who ultimately want to have Reddit but not Reddit, who are also coincidentally the people most likely to be attracted to Kbin.

The Mastodon migration got screwed up by people pushing their purist version of decentralisation over decent UX, Christ help us if Kbin blows its chance in the same way.

Bloonface,
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It also confused the shit out of newbies who neither know nor care what an instance is and find the idea too outside of their existing comprehension or level of caring to wrap their heads around.

Bloonface,
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This is about where I land.

It's essentially an open market of instances, if people find more utility on big ones - as they are very likely to, since being on small ones makes the new user experience suck big dangly balls - then maybe that says more about the general attractiveness of the fediverse concept to end users than it does about either those users or the instances concerned.

Bloonface,
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If it is like Mastodon, then the more users you have, the more servers you'll federate with, the more posts you will pull down, the more disk space you consume and the more you'll have to actively manage your disk space and probably continually seek more system resources.

I would honestly say to give it a few months and see if you're still here before taking the plunge, which as a side benefit will allow you to wait for more admin information and documentation to be created.

Bloonface,
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I honestly think that if you care about adoption of Kbin then closing down the flagship instance is going to be absolutely toxic.

It was bad enough in November 22 when people went to "Mastodon" (i.e. Mastodon.social) and got turned away, it made people think the entire network was closed, and all the explanations just sounded like nonsense to people coming from Twitter who'd just heard about this cool Mastodon site that was going to fix everything.

Bloonface,
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people just got extremely lazy when all they have to do is open of the 5 mega-platforms like Twitter and Reddit to access everything.

That's a funny way of saying "to an end user, not having to give a shit about what instance you're on is an objectively easier and thus better experience".

Particularly when most people couldn't tell you what a server even is. It just makes them confused because it's neither something they understand nor something they're going to be motivated to care about.

If using a platform feels like hard work compared to its competitors, that's a failing of the platform, not of users. Users don't owe the platform anything.

I can guarantee there are also plenty of things you, in common with everyone else, simply do not care about and cannot be convinced to care about, and would similarly consider it an imposition to be required to care about them or be judged as "lazy".

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