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Lmao what a cop out. At bare minimum Ukraine should have stopped allowing fascist paramilitary groups to shell civilians in the east, an act that was illegal a half a dozen other ways, too. And Angela Merkel admitted the agreements were not an attempt to actually resolve that issue or the issue of the west installing a hostile foreign government via coup, but to give Ukraine time to arm up to fight Russia:
In an interview published in Germany’s Zeit magazine on Wednesday, former German chancellor Angela Merkel said that the Minsk agreements had been an attempt to “give Ukraine time” to build up its defences.
No politician ever in their lives did anything in good faith
“My country has broken hundreds of treaties and wipes its ass with international law, but it’s actually OK because it’s impossible for anyone to operate differently”
the stated goal of Russia, the finlandization of the whole of Europe.
Would love a source for whatever you think this means
A policy of retaliation against warmongers is a policy of promoting peace.
The U.S., by far, is the most aggressive country on the planet. You certainly don’t apply this logic to it, and there has not been a single time retaliation against the U.S. has deterred it from future aggression.
So “Finalndization” (again, whatever you think that means) is not in fact “the stated goal of Russia.” You claim (without sourcing) it’s from a Russian academic and then acknowledge there’s room to speculate how much impact that academic’s work has on the Russian government.
The US is not an immediate military threat for Europe.
You’re changing the subject. I said:
You do not apply your “retaliation against warmongers” logic against the most aggressive country on the planet. This is because you do not actually believe it; you’re just using it to justify fighting an enemy you already wanted to fight.
Retaliation against the most aggressive country on the planet has not deterred it from further warmongering, so your logic is largely disproven, anyway.
Who is saying this? Russia sure isn’t. You keep making up threats.
And on changing the subject, why are we talking about the US again?
If you actually believe that aggressive, militaristic countries should face retaliation to get them to back down – if you actually hold that as a principle – you would apply it to all such countries, and the #1 example of that is the U.S.
You don’t apply it to the U.S., which shows you don’t actually believe it. You only apply it to countries you’ve already deemed enemies.
You keep saying Russia is your enemy because they’re threatening you, but all you’ve mentioned are invented threats, not anything Russia has actually said or did towards your country.
Two days ago, a Duma member suggested nuking Rotterdam.
Show me a source. Earlier in this conversation you said something was the “stated policy of Russia,” then when you went to find a source it turned out it was not.
Russian soldiers also actually shot down an airliner
Presumably you’re referring to Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. That was not shot down by Russia, but by Ukranian separatists using a Russian-supplied weapon. I’m not aware of any evidence that anyone intentionally targeted it, either, much less intentionally targeted it because it had Dutch citizens. Non-Russians mistaking an airliner for a military target is not the same as Russia targeting you.
I didn’t say that I support US policy
OK, so what military retaliation against the U.S. do you endorse? Do you apply your policy of retaliation to everyone, or not? That’s what I’m getting at – you do not apply your policy of retaliation to everyone, only countries you’ve already decided are Bad Countries. This isn’t deflecting, it’s showing that you are not being honest when you say “aggressive countries should see military retaliation.”
Stated policy means stated policy, not “a bunch of bureaucrats were assigned the same book once.”
they are sourcing a Duma member on Russian state television
Fair enough. It’s still a far cry from anyone in a position to actually use nukes saying anything like that, though. Here’s the stated policy of Russia on the topic:
Putin reiterated Russia’s formal position on the use of nuclear weapons in a statement to the Russian HRC on December 7 with no noteworthy changes. Putin claimed that the threat of nuclear war is growing, but that Russia will not be the first to employ nuclear weapons. Putin added, however, that if Russia is not the first to initiate the first use of nuclear weapons, it will also not be the second to do so, because the “possibility of using [a nuclear weapon] in the event of a nuclear strike on [Russian] territory are very limited.” Putin reiterated that Russian nuclear doctrine is premised on self-defense and stated that any Russian nuclear use would be retaliatory… Putin’s statements support ISW’s previous assessment that while Russian officials may engage in forms of nuclear saber-rattling as part of an information operation meant to undermine Western support for Ukraine, Russian officials have no intention of actually using them on the battlefield.
Why does some random Duma member’s offhand comments mean more than this?
Ukrainian separatists in Russian “little green men” uniforms
So your theory is that Russia intentionally shot down a civilian airliner, targeting the Netherlands specifically… why, exactly? Do you think they’re mustache-twirling villains who do evil stuff because evil is fun?
Proportional retaliation for their aggressive actions.
Ok, what proportional retaliation does the U.S. deserve for Iraq?
Motherfuckers created a rule about how pointing out that overpopulation myths are ecofascistic lobbying is actually “bad faith” somehow so now every post, no matter what it is about, full of “this is why billions must die” bullshit....
Some of Donald Trump’s allies are assembling proposals to curtail the Justice Department’s independence and turn the nation’s top law enforcement body into an attack dog for conservative causes, nine people involved in the effort told Reuters....
You’re not really engaging seriously here, but “if voting doesn’t work, what is to be done?” is actually the first (and too often last) political thought most people have outside of our mostly useless sham democracy. And you’re right that fascists deserve to be shot (though you aren’t yet asking why Democrats’ don’t seem to believe that), so it’s understandable your thoughts would go straight to shooting them.
What you’re missing is that this whole conversation has happened countless times before, to the point where there’s an established name for “well why don’t you just go shoot the bad guy?”: adventurism. A bunch of anarchists tried it against high-level state actors 100+ years ago and it accomplished nothing of note, and the consensus among communists is that it’s a bad strategy. It lacks “stable or serious principles, programme, tactics, organisation, and… roots among the masses,” so it doesn’t develop into any systemic change (and makes your organization vulnerable to bad actors). Turns out you can’t take a shortcut around building a mass movement.
Building that movement is the logical conclusion you’re looking for, not random outbursts of violence.
Make it way worse quicker, so more people become friendly to the revolution.
Why would people join a movement that is making things worse right now? Why would you want to race towards increased state repression when your movement is small? Accelerationism isn’t a good idea in this situation, and it’s hard to think of a successful leftist movement that employed it ever.
The reason democrats don’t like shooting fascists is because they are have bought their own lies about the current system working
Agreed. I’d say this makes Democrats useless at best (at least with respect to the “uh so what about all this fascism we have going?” question) and enablers at worst.
One of the principle contradictions of capitalism is that any capitalist who thinks of heading off long-term problems gets replaced by one who can juice up the numbers in the immediate future. Who cares about sustaining a great position when you can make a shitload of money next quarter?
You want to throw someone in jail without a trial or having their day in court?
Lmao hell yes I do, this happens for literally every serious criminal case (and a bunch of not-so-serious ones, too). If you actually took the idea that Trump is a fascist seriously, you’d be asking why shouldn’t he simply have been shot.
Everybody knows he’s guilty, however if you don’t get everything just right then he gets away on a technicality.
If everybody knows a fascist is a fascist and your only solution is to follow the rules real hard and hope, you are a danger to the country and should be nowhere near the levers of power.
So to take [Jeb] Bush down, Clinton’s team drew up a plan to pump Trump up. Shortly after her kickoff, top aides organized a strategy call, whose agenda included a memo to the Democratic National Committee: “This memo is intended to outline the strategy and goals a potential Hillary Clinton presidential campaign would have regarding the 2016 Republican presidential field,” it read.
“The variety of candidates is a positive here, and many of the lesser known can serve as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right. In this scenario, we don’t want to marginalize the more extreme candidates, but make them more ‘Pied Piper’ candidates who actually represent the mainstream of the Republican Party,” read the memo.
“Pied Piper candidates include, but aren’t limited to:
Ted Cruz
Donald Trump
Ben Carson
We need to be elevating the Pied Piper candidates so that they are leaders of the pack and tell the press to [take] them seriously."
…
An agenda item for top aides’ message planning meeting read, “How do we prevent Bush from bettering himself/how do we maximize Trump and others?"
deleted_by_moderator
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long-corbyn lets-fucking-go
r/collapse is the most insidious fash cesspool on reddit and they're not even hiding it anymore
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The Tweet reads:...
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