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jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Even if they passed the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban (which expired in 2004), the current Supreme Court would not allow it. They’ve made that clear in ruling after ruling since 2008.

Rulings in question:

…wikipedia.org/…/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller

“(1) The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.”

and further:

“(3) The handgun ban and the trigger-lock requirement (as applied to self-defense) violate the Second Amendment. The District’s total ban on handgun possession in the home amounts to a prohibition on an entire class of “arms” that Americans overwhelmingly choose for the lawful purpose of self-defense. Under any of the standards of scrutiny the Court has applied to enumerated constitutional rights, this prohibition – in the place where the importance of the lawful defense of self, family, and property is most acute – would fail constitutional muster. Similarly, the requirement that any lawful firearm in the home be disassembled or bound by a trigger lock makes it impossible for citizens to use arms for the core lawful purpose of self-defense and is hence unconstitutional.”

Because that was decided against Washington D.C. and not an actual state, there was a 2nd ruling making it clear that this applies to states as well:

en.m.wikipedia.org/…/McDonald_v._City_of_Chicago

““the Second Amendment protects the right to keep and bear arms for the purpose of self-defense” (id. at ___, 130 S. Ct. at 3026); that “individual self-defense is 'the central component’ of the Second Amendment right” (emphasis in original) (id. at ___, 130 S. Ct. at 3036 (quoting Heller, 554 U.S. at 599)); and that “[s]elf-defense is a basic right, recognized by many legal systems from ancient times to the present day” (id. at ___, 130 S. Ct. at 3036).[21]”

2016 had my favorite ruling in all this because it wouldn’t INITIALLY seem to deal with guns. A woman bought a taser to protect herself from an abusive ex. MA ruled the 2nd amendment didn’t apply because tasers didn’t exist when the 2nd amendment was written.

Enter the Supreme Court:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caetano_v._Massachusetts

“the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding” and that “the Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States”.[6] The term “bearable arms” was defined in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008) and includes any “”[w]eapo[n] of offence" or “thing that a man wears for his defence, or takes into his hands,” that is “carr[ied] . . . for the purpose of offensive or defensive action.” 554 U. S., at 581, 584 (internal quotation marks omitted)."[10]

The most recent is the New York ruling where you needed special permission from the state to get a concealed carry permit, which was often denied, even if you were a law abiding gun owner.

…wikipedia.org/…/New_York_State_Rifle_%26_Pistol_…

“The constitutional right to bear arms in public for self-defense is not ‘a second-class right, subject to an entirely different body of rules than the other Bill of Rights guarantees.’ We know of no other constitutional right that an individual may exercise only after demonstrating to government officers some special need.”[28]

Where this ruling is especially different is that it sets the grounds for striking down other, in place, gun laws all over the country:

"When the Second Amendment’s plain text covers an individual’s conduct [here the right to bear arms], the Constitution presumptively protects that conduct. The government must then justify its regulation by demonstrating that it is consistent with the Nation’s historical tradition of firearm regulation. Only then may a court conclude that the individual’s conduct falls outside the Second Amendment’s “‘unqualified command.’”

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Unfortunately, we can’t require licensing. The Supreme Court already ruled that the core tenet of the 2nd Amendment is self defense and that can’t be burdened.

What I PERSONALLY would like to see is a full root cause analysis on every shooting and plugging the holes that allowed it to happen.

For example:

In the Maine shooting, he bought the guns he used 10 days before being reported for abberant behavior and being involuntary committed for 2 weeks.

Background checks wouldn’t work because he bought the guns before there were any reported problems.

Being involuntarily committed should have resulted in a seizure of all weapons. It did not. Why not? In most cases because seizures require a court ruling and if the commitment wasn’t court mandated, that doesn’t happen.

Bonus - if the commitment isn’t court mandated, that also won’t turn up on a background check, a common problem with other mass shooters.

That needs to change, and it doesn’t involve the 2nd amendment or a change in gun laws, it just has to expand what already happens in court adjudicated cases to non adjudicated cases.

Alternately, you push ALL mental health commitments through court to ensure guns are withdrawn and the commitment shows up on background checks.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

All it takes is 50 years and a polar shift in opinion…

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

This one happened at a private house, still classified as a mass shooting.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Reversing Roe took 50 years because it took that long to get enough conservative judges appointed. It could not have happened sooner.

In my lifetime, Democratic presidents have only been able to appoint 5 justices to the court compared to 15 for Republican presidents.

If we want to change the gun rulings, that needs to be reversed, which should only take, oh, another 50 years or so.

www.supremecourt.gov/about/members_text.aspx

Burger, Warren Earl - Nixon
Blackmun, Harry A. - Nixon
Powell, Lewis F., Jr. - Nixon
Rehnquist, William H. - Nixon
Stevens, John Paul - Ford
O’Connor, Sandra Day - Reagan
Scalia, Antonin - Reagan
Kennedy, Anthony M. - Reagan
Souter, David H. - Bush, G. H. W.
Thomas, Clarence - Bush, G. H. W.
Ginsburg, Ruth Bader - Clinton
Breyer, Stephen G. - Clinton
Roberts, John G., Jr. - Bush, G. W.
Alito, Samuel A., Jr. - Bush, G. W.
Sotomayor, Sonia - Obama
Kagan, Elena - Obama
Gorsuch, Neil M. - Trump
Kavanaugh, Brett M. - Trump
Barrett, Amy Coney - Trump
Jackson, Ketanji Brown - Biden

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Again, not the same class of shooting as a random attack in a public place.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

We haven’t been to the moon since 1972 and don’t even have our own shuttle program anymore. Our bridges and roads are falling apart, we have absolutely no plan for climate change, and this ass-hat is speaker of the House of Representatives:

cbsnews.com/…/speaker-mike-johnson-legislation-ho…

But here’s the crux of the problem that folks outside the US don’t get:

The right to own a gun is guaranteed in our founding document. It doesn’t matter if you agree it should be or not, it’s there and it’s been upheld by the Supreme Court multiple times.

We could amend the Constitution again… but doing so starts in the House and takes 290 votes.

They took 22 days to get a simple 217 vote majority to decide who their own Speaker would be, there’s no WAY they get 290 votes on removing the 2nd Amendment.

But let’s say some miracle happens and we get 290, now it goes to the Senate where we need 67 votes. Same problem, the Senate is incapacitated by a minority who require 60 votes to do ANYTHING and that hasn’t been attainable.

But lets say some billionaire swoops in and pays off enough people to get 67…

Now it goes to the states for ratification and we need 38 states for it to become an amendment.

Look at 2020 as a guide - Biden won 25 states + Washington D.C., Trump won 25 states.

You would need all 25 Biden states to ratify + 13 Trump states. For every Biden state you lose, you need +1 Trump state.

Take a look at the Trump states and count up 13 willing to give up their gun rights…

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

“In 2021, there were 2,571 child deaths due to firearms”

kff.org/…/child-and-teen-firearm-mortality-in-the…

2,571 / 330,000,000 = 0.0000077909

Yeah, pretty much.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

The trend is for the court to get more and more conservative. This is NOT accidental. It’s intentional.

propublica.org/…/we-dont-talk-about-leonard-leo-s…

Which gives us:

www.npr.org/…/the-supreme-court-conservative

In a fair world, the number of conservative vs liberal judges would be evenly distributed, it’s NOT a fair world. So we get 15 Republican judges vs. 5 Democratic ones.

Going by age, the next two justices to be replaced should be Thomas and Alito. Unless that happens under a Democratic President, the people who replace them will be younger and more extreme, locking in the court for the rest of our lives.

Even under a Democratic President, it’s still not guaranteed as we saw with Merrick Garland, you need a Democratic Senate as well.

If we’re super lucky, we’ll get Biden in '24, but his chance of replacing another judge is unlikely. Thomas will be 80 in 2028 and Alito will be 78. So whoever gets elected in '28 will likely get to replace them.

Harris? Yeah, no. Snowball’s chance.

thehill.com/…/4103153-kamala-harris-is-far-from-t…

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Each death, individually, is a tragedy. Collectively? On a population of 330 MILLION? It’s literally NOTHING. That’s how statistics work.

In the big list of the top 59 ways Americans die, accidental gunshot is , fewer than those killed by cops, btw, which is , homicidal gunshot is and suicidal gunshot is .

cbsnews.com/…/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-d…

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

I guarantee you don’t want a private company like Amazon handling gun confiscation, public policy should not be up to private companies to enforce. Might as well ask people to drop off their guns at the local WalMart and ask untrained staff to deal with them. No good will come from it.

Elections are a different deal because all you’re processing is bits of paper and data, you aren’t running the risk of, you know, explosive ordinance.

Even if we had the logistics, which we don’t, there’s still the 2nd amendment to contend with. We can’t force people to give up their guns, that’s a right the Australians didn’t have.

Repealing the 2nd Amendment can be done, but it starts with 290 votes in the House. You did watch the struggle it took to get the 217 they needed to elect their own leader, right?

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

No, I’m saying the conservative think tanks that manipulated the past are, right now, as we speak, manipulating the future and it’s not changing.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

We don’t have the same environment now that we did then. We can’t currently get an amendment to do ANYTHING at this point. Everything is too divided.

290 votes in the House, that couldn’t get 217 to decide their own leadership.

67 votes in the Senate, that can’t get 60 to over-ride a filibuster.

38 state ratifications where 25 states can’t admit Joe Biden won the last election.

It’s untenable, even on topics lots of people can agree on, like, say, term limits for Supreme Court Justices, or barring convicted felons from public office.

And those should be the uncontroversial topics…

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

The amendments are there because a 2/3rds vote of the House and Senate voted for them and 3/4 of the states ratified them. Until a similar vote un-does them, they are the law of the land.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Well, we already know we aren’t every other developed nation, that’s why we don’t have universal health care either. Or guaranteed vacation time, or paid parental leave, or dozens of other things that just might, you know, make people not want to shoot each other. :)

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Not all gun violence is a mass shooting. That’s the point.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

The worst part, the absolute worst part, is the morons keeping us from having these nice things insisting that we’re the greatest country on the planet. Clearly that’s not true, but man, try to convince them of that…

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

That and they make money by keeping people scared. “ZOMG! MORE MASS SHOOTINGS THAN DAYS IN THE YEAR!!!” and news orgs repeat it without questioning their methodology.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

It does though, because certain types of shootings don’t put the public at risk. A shootout between two rival gangs is not the same as some psycho shooting up a grocery store.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, because other folks in his unit reported him.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

That’s the problem… the word “adjudicated”. Unless it goes through a judge, the guns are NOT confiscated and it does not show up on a background check.

So the Maine shooter was held, it didn’t go through a judge, was not “adjudicated”.

Same for Jacksonville:
en.m.wikipedia.org/…/2023_Jacksonville_shooting

“In 2017, he was the subject of a Baker Act call, used to place persons under involuntary detainment for mental health examination for up to 72 hours.[6]”

Same for Allen, Texas:
…wikipedia.org/…/2023_Allen,_Texas_mall_shooting

“Garcia was then enlisted in the U.S. Army in June 2008, but he never completed basic training: he was terminated after three months due to mental health concerns.[39][40] Because this was an administrative separation, rather than a punitive discharge, Garcia’s termination by the Army would not show up on the National Instant Criminal Background Check System.[41]”

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

It’s not that it will be hard, it’s that this is the same body that took 22 days to build a simple majority to decide who their own leader is. 290 is out of reach.

That same speaker, BTW, has already said he won’t allow gun issues to come to the floor.

The Republicans will not vote for it, which is the majority. Some Democrats won’t vote for it either. It’s a dead issue.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Evansville? Or 11 year olds? Gotta keep 'em out of trouble somehow…

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, he had been a bat boy for a team of 10 year olds, which folded for some reason, now he’s bat boy for a team of 11 year olds.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

2 hours seems normal to me, but I could definitely see it as you get closer to three.

Hateful Eight had one and that was 2 hours 55 minutes.

I bet the internet has a list of movies with intermissions:

(looked, lots of lists, but not correlated with run times)

Cleopatra was almost 4 damn hours!

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