Do lifetime warranties make something BIFL?

CaptainJanegay, 10 months ago

I don't think a guaranteed replacement is the reason why warranties can contribute to something being BIFL: rather, the lifetime warranty is the manufacturer putting money on the durability of the item, which increases my confidence that they genuinely believe their product is actually durable.

It's still no guarantee and there are lots of other factors to consider, but I think taking a warranty into account is reasonable.

mack123, 10 months ago

Life time warranties do contribute significantly to a buy it for life decision. Lets take automotive tools. I use mainly Gedore tools to maintain my vehicles. A few years ago I found a clapped out, worn, ratchet in a second hand toolbox I bought. Took it to my local dealer to find out about replacing the mechanism and they outright replaced the ratchet with a brand new one. At no cost to me and I was not even the first owner.

My own set Gedore of sockets and spanners are still in perfect condition after 20+ years of use. Yes I paid double store brand prices back in the late 90s for them, but I am sure they will be heirloom tools one day.

It really depends on what you are buying, but lifetime warranties does contribute to the decision.

grahamsz, 10 months ago

I work in the clothing space and most people are moving away from them because there's been a sudden very sharp uptick in abuse. We had a product that we made for a major retailer that have a lifetime guarantee against defects in workmanship. Certainly, there were always some consumers who'd legitimately wear it out and ask for a replacement every 5 years, but the number that would actually follow through was comparatively small.

However, the returns skyrocketed a few years ago and we actually went to the trouble of having all the product collected and shipped back to us so we could analyze it.

• Lots of it was filthy like consumers would get it dirty and then return it rather than washing it
• A significant portion was different products, some even from other stores. I guess store employees aren't willing to push back on customers, and frankly, I don't blame them
• Some were weirdly damaged - we've been in this industry a long time and know what normal wear looks like and know exactly where holes are going to show up if a product is badly made. I've seen things that were obviously cut with scissors or looked like they'd been dragged across concrete.
• A good chunk looked brand new, perhaps people bought it for a weekend event and returned it. Certainly, they could be dissatisfied with the purchase, but that typically only amounts to 1-2% of our buyers.

I don't really understand the shift, but it really feels like a few shitty people ruining a good thing for everyone else.

mack123, 10 months ago

I would not have thought lifetime warranty even existed on clothing. First time I have heard about it. Agreed that it mayl be abused.

Tools are in a different position, where the company rep can usually spot signs of abuse easily and then rhey will probably refuse warranty. It also helps if you are a frequent customer and is known by the store staff.

grahamsz, 10 months ago

Usually it's phrased as a warranty against defects in workmanship. I had American Giant replace a hoodie where one of the seams started to come unstitched, but I infer that they wouldn't have covered it if it were due to regular wear and tear. (also pretty sure they moved away from lifetime warrantis too)

vipaal, 10 months ago

Probably the hug of death is more due to most other clothing businesses not doing the lifetime guarantee than customers abusing. I see no motivation for buying at one place and taking it to another if both offer the same guarantees.

grahamsz, 10 months ago

I don't think the other returned products were lifetime guaranteed. Look like they found a worn out piece from their closet and returned it to the retailer claiming it was an older version of the product they were trying to replace it with - maybe they genuinely believed that but it seemed more deliberate

hiddengoat, 7 months ago

deleted_by_moderator

grahamsz, 6 months ago

Lots of that stock is made specifically for Rack - there's definitely some returns and end of line product that ends up there, but many of the branded goods at "outlet" stores is specifically designed for that market.

fazalmajid, 10 months ago

Economist George Akerlof explains the role of warranties in establishing customer confidence in his paper The Market for Lemons.

Keep in mind “lifetime warranty” often ends up being “lifetime of the company”, not yours. The Lindy Effect is relevant here.

kukkurovaca, 10 months ago

I think it depends to some on the nature of the warranty program. A lot of warranties are limited in scope (e.g., only on defects in worksmanship) and some companies just replace the item, especially if it is low-cost. However, other warranties are more comprehensive and the companies are actually repairing items to keep them in service. This contributes to the BIFL-ness of a product especially if it means that there will be parts or (paid) repair service available even after the warranty period is up or if you’re buying it second hand.

gonzoleroy, 10 months ago

I think having a rule against considering lifetime warranties is taking it too far. If a company believes in its product to the extent they offer lifetime replacement, it stands to reason that consumers can "buy it for life".

Sure there will be schemers who offer this deal to make short-term money, knowing full well they plan to fold. That's why I think it's important to look at both the product and company history before shelling out on something, and all of that makes for good discussion around here.