As an example I've paid for a copy of Breath of Fire 3, 3 times in my life, because the disc broke twice over the years. Now my ps1 & 2 are caput. I still own a copy of the disk. Would it be illegal to download an emulator (I've boughten 2 ps1 and 4 ps2 in my lifetime) and a rom of BoF3? Sony got their cut 9 times already.
If buying isnt owning then pirating isnt stealing in my humble opinion.
Reminder to install ProtonDB Badges on your Steam Deck (via Decky Loader). ProtonDB has a vastly larger database of reports, with hints how to improve performance or e.g. fix issues with cutscenes.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe ProtonDB Badge and PowerTools are both plugins for Decky Loader. Still both useful, but PowerTools isn’t required for ProtonDB Badge to work
While I appreciate the efforts Valve puts into improving WINE/Proton, lets not forget that they are standing on the shoulders of giants and gaming with WINE was not that bad before the integration in Steam either.
13 year linux vet here, yes it was. Literally nothing worked without troubleshooting and dicking around with configs. Even running the windows version of Steam in WINE was hit or miss and was constantly plagued with issues. If it “was not that bad” nobody would of recommended running a Windows VM with GPU passthrough like they did back then.
I didn’t even know that Proton was Wine, until somewhere else pointed it out here on Lemmy… (granted, I am not a proton user, that’s why my lack of context was there, but I follow the Chinese retro handhelds community so that’s why I knew why Proton is awesome).
I think their efforts are more for bringing gaming on Linux to more mainstream attention. Not knowing you can game on Linux is a major factor for a lot of people in not switching.
The results were fine, but the work to get there was quite bad quite often.
UX polish is one of those things that just isn’t as fun to do, and isn’t as rewarding either. So pumping a bunch of money into it is going to go a long way towards making all the other hard work come out better.
What? I’ve exclusively used Linux since 2006 and gaming outside of retro emulation was absolute trash until proton. Of course WINE and code weavers were doing great work but it was overly complicated to use and the compatibility was abysmal.
I am on Linux even longer than you and native Linux gaming was not trash at all, it worked great, just the selection of games was very small (edit: before Steam was even a thing on Linux). WINE was always a bit hit or miss, but once you got something working, it was usually ok. Sure Proton made it more convenient, but it was more of an gradual improvement than the quantum leap some people claim it to be.
Going from a miniscule library of games that could work (I remember Linux Steam back before Proton having almost nothing of note) to opening up something pretty close to the entire Windows library and running Linux on Valve/Steam’s own handheld console for their games is indeed a quantum leap. That’s what Proton has done for Linux gaming. It may have gotten there eventually just with Wine and community contributions, but it would have taken possibly quite a few years longer to get there without Proton.
I think that is very subjective to the types of games you are interested in. For me Steam before Proton had so many native (indie) games that I literally couldn’t find the time to play all of those I was interested in.
Most people want to play aaa games by your own argument gaming on Linux before proton wasn’t easy you just happen to really like indie games but most people aren’t like you
I’ve tried three times to fully convert my gaming rig to Linux, sticking with the effort at least 3 solid months minimum each time. The first time was back in 2015. Only a small subset of my Steam Library worked, despite all of my best efforts hacking on bottles, and there was no way I could stick with it if I intended to play anything with friends. Community aside, Valve and Feral were leading the charge, but I could not stick with it.
My second attempt was around 2019. Almost half my library ran, some in need of care and feeding, others barely functional, but running nonetheless. This was primarily due to my curation efforts of trying to make sure the games I bought offered some slim hope of compatibility. Wine was still a very inexact science, so attempts to get things running outside of native ports or Valve games was a poor facsimile. WineDB representation of compatibility layers was a wide gradient of colors, with most AAA titles still squarely in silver territory or worse. Anything with anti-cheat was a fool’s errand.
My rig’s now been on Linux for 4 months solid, and the state of Linux gaming is nothing close to what it used to be. The state of EAC support thanks to Steam Deck represents a quantum leap all its own, and that wouldn’t have happened without Proton. The overwhelming majority of my Steam Library runs with no effort, each game running nearly as good or better than it did on Windows. This shift did not feel incremental.
Well, obviously if you were jumping on and off the improvements look big, but as a continuous user of Linux since the late 90ties I can assure you that is was mostly a gradual improvement.
Sadly multiplayer compatibility due to anti-cheat is still a sticking point as has not improved that much overall.
Sadly multiplayer compatibility due to anti-cheat is still a sticking point as has not improved that much overall.
It seems to have gotten a lot better lately with EAC games at least. Hunt Showdown getting official anti-cheat support due to the Steamdeck was a big one for me. And a bunch of other big games that I personally don’t play got support too, like Dead By Daylight and Apex Legends.
Let’s not forget that Valve released a Linux port for TF2 in 2012, released their native client in 2013, released SteamOS in 2013 and in the end ported nearly all their games to linux. It didn’t start with Proton.
But Humble Bundle pushed ports before that, because games had to have a Linux port in order to get into the bundle.
Yeah, that’s not necessarily the case. Did it kind of work? Sure, if you knew what you were doing. Was it at all the seamless experience that Proton is now? No.
Please don't spread misinformation Valve does not put in effort, they paid people to make Proton, it's the community that makes the code NOT VALVE. A simple github chart can tell you everything.
It sounds dumb because no one’s saying that, you just made it up. That would be like if someone was directly crediting Gabe Newell with, idk, CS:GO battlepass sales or something. That’s not what anyone’s saying.
A better comparison would be crediting McDonalds as a company for their work in the handheld apple pie space. Did they outsource the work? Maybe. Did they come up with the recipe themselves? Probably not. But without McDonald’s involvement, we wouldn’t be able to enjoy hot, fresh, fruit-filled pastries with our Big Macs, and our fast food dessert choices are better for it. See? Much less dumb.
No it still sounds dumb, we know they were built by machines and were sold in packs. You lack basic understand in how certain things work. Game development also applies, Github is still the number one source for the information on Proton Contributors, GitHub data doesn't lie, Valve employees do nothing.
So paying someone to do something doesnt give you any credit? How does companies work then. Please don’t credit any company for anything, they just paid people who put in the work? Who are you kidding?
You’re correct in giving WINE the credit it’s due.
But I couldn’t disagree more with the “gaming with WINE was not that bad” statement.
It was horrible. Game updates broke compatibility a thousand times, outdated Wine wrappers were a mess, setting up most games involved convoluted scripts, and even when things magically just worked performance was usually lower (except for some specific CPU bound games).
With software, it’s always the last 10% of the job that takes 90% of the work, and that’s what Valve stepped up and did.
Yes, Wine and Crossover mostly worked, if you were willing to put in a ton of effort. Valve took the time to make it damn near as easy to game on Linux as on Windows, using Windows programs.
It probably wasn’t actually 90% of the total effort, but I’m sure it took a ton of work, far more than you might otherwise think.
The 10 developers Valve hired have nearly nothing in their Github profile. Proton history is nothing but community based code and a copycat of Wine, just like everyone said in the very start of Proton.
Gaming with Wine was decidedly far worse before Valve started pumping money into it. Back before Proton was officially announced, there was a silent acceleration in Wine compatibility, getting better a rate we weren't used to, and it's in large part due to Valve partnering with CodeWeavers.
I think the point isn't to say Valve's help isn't appreciated, but to give a little reminder to share some gratefulness with the amazing people developing Wine before Valve got involved as well. It was and is an impressive piece of software in its own right. :)
That doesn't mean Valve wasn't a complete game changer. The fact that they managed to make a handheld Linux gaming device popular among gamers rather than just open source fanatics is impressive as hell, and we're all better off.
Oh of course, but I was particularly addressing "gaming with WINE was not that bad before the integration in Steam either", because it really wasn't great, as important and foundational as it was.
Apple in the 21st century are exactly like Microsoft in the 20th: they view open source and public protocols as an active threat to their business model and will go miles out of their way to ignore any FOSS project even if it could be hugely beneficial to them.
How horrible is it that 99% of any crypto project can be dismissed as harmful scams without even looking at it - and except for 1% they always turn out to be libertarian wet dreams/scams.
Unfortunately, these Capitalist Psychos uses the same techniques as ‘Scientology’ et al. and are increasingly hiding their true identity/incentives behind their shit project.
They are Capitalist scammers that have found a new revenue stream, and It IS incredible how far these people will go just to protect their initial investment - no matter who’s scammed bco it.
I wasn’t calling out anyone on anything! I’m perfectly aware “1%” was a hyperbole, but I’m genuinely curious about crypto projects that aren’t snake oil.
I read the comment as 1% that you have to look info it to tell that it’s snake oil.
Monero has value if your threat model includes people who can legally compel banks to give up your information. Cryptos allow for bypassing state sanctions.
Smart contracts are a decentralized alternative to escrow services and maybe allow for the conducting of business without relying on the threat of state violence, provided your use case is something where completion can be determined automatically by a machine (or theirs infrastructure that accommodates for that, but then essentially you’ve just recreated escrow with extra stemps).
I just learned that PROTON_ENABLE_NVAPI=1 to enable DLSS got changed to PROTON_FORCE_NVAPI=1 in Proton 9.0 (including Proton Experimental). Just in case this helps someone in the future.
On another note: Feel free to let me know if you've got a good way to keep up with necessary/useful launch options. I've simply been having a look at what people use on ProtonDB. But I've come to the conclusion that a lot of the posts there use outdated or simply false launch options.
Does it really make sense to complain about fragmentation here when many distros are just downstream from others? I was on Pop! And have used Ubuntu but am on Debian at the moment. Nothing’s really changed. I installed the same application versions, I’d read the same tutorials to get things done. What am I missing here?
The shops do not need to be connected to industry nor to residential or outside connections to function. It just fakes all of the commerce information.
The devs might call that a bug to save face, but it doesn’t mean they didn’t deliberately ship it like that.
Yes, they likely intentionally shipped a buggy simulation due to a variety of factors. That doesn’t mean the simulation is fake, it means it isn’t finished, much like a lot of the rest of the game (missing LODs being a big one).
I’m guessing they had a start on the simulation, but it wasn’t complete enough for release so they shipped with it partially enabled.
No it wasn’t finished but they shipped it as a full priced finished game and deceived a lot of people.
They weren’t honest about the state of the simulation either, the UI updates as if there’s a full simulation running but it’s all magic fairy numbers to appear as if the simulation is functional. They faked it and just hoped nobody noticed.
It’s like releasing a factory game but you don’t have to link anything up to churn out products, instead you can just plop down the final stage factory and call it a day. This isn’t just unfinished, it’s deceitful and unacceptable.
Yes, the game absolutely failed to live up to the advertising on launch, and still falls short to this day. That’s a fact.
That doesn’t mean the economy is fake, it just means the implementation of the economy at this point is buggy. The game has high CPU usage, so it’s obviously calculating something, I’m guessing it was just not well tested (if at all) like much of the rest of the game. The game was not ready for release, yet they released it anyway, and they seem to admit it (look at the last minute perf revision at launch as an example).
I think the game was half baked and the execs decided to release anyway. The systems seem to be there, they’re just not properly hooked up/implemented, and they’re definitely buggy. That’s a very different thing from not existing whatsoever.
The difference isn’t particularly important to players right now, but it is important for the game in a year or so down the line. If they acknowledge it as a bug, there’s a good chance they’ll fix it (and for something that big, that means it’s probably already partially implemented). If they say “working as intended,” it’s incredibly unlikely.
No, from the evidence I’ve seen, they’ve partially implemented the simulation. It seems the code is there (from high CPU usage), it’s just not working properly.
So it’s a bug. It’s not working as the developers have said it should, and they seem intent on fixing it.
please don’t use the code formatting for non-code things. it’s a pain to read on mobile because the lines don’t wrap, so you have to scroll horizontally back and forth when reading long lines.
can now call the winetricks gui using util.protontricks(‘gui’)
winetricks now performs an internet check before attempting any downloads
fixed long standing issue with protontricks not being able to install dotnet4* using anything newer than proton 5. works now and no longer requires proton 5.
fixed dll overwrites in winetricks, no longer need to maintain a massive list of specific overwriteable dlls in proton
protonfixes added for Catherine Classic – videos now fully working
protonfixes added for Ys Origin – videos now fully working
protonfixes for Age of Wonders – videos now fully working
protonfixes added for Model 2 emulator
protonfixes added for Alien Breed: Impact
protonfixes added for Alien Breed 2: Assault
protonfixes added for Alien Breed 3: Descent
protonfixes added for Black Desert Online NOSTEAM=1 option. Launch game like NOSTEAM=1 %command% to launch non-steam standalone version. Files will auto-attach to release when finished building in Actions: github.com/GloriousEggroll/…/actions
There are two ways of doing doing bullet points (unordered lists) in markdown:
<span style="color:#a71d5d;">- </span><span style="color:#ed6a43;">now using ULWGL-protonfixes
</span><span style="color:#a71d5d;">-</span><span style="color:#ed6a43;"> can now call the winetricks gui using </span><span style="color:#a71d5d;">`</span><span style="color:#323232;">util.protontricks(‘gui’)</span><span style="color:#a71d5d;">`
</span><span style="color:#a71d5d;">-</span><span style="color:#ed6a43;"> winetricks now performs an internet check before attempting any downloads
</span><span style="color:#ed6a43;">[…]
</span><span style="color:#a71d5d;">*</span><span style="color:#ed6a43;"> protonfixes added for Alien Breed: Impact
</span><span style="color:#a71d5d;">*</span><span style="color:#ed6a43;"> protonfixes added for Alien Breed 2: Assault
</span><span style="color:#a71d5d;">*</span><span style="color:#ed6a43;"> protonfixes added for Alien Breed 3: Descent
</span><span style="color:#a71d5d;">*</span><span style="color:#ed6a43;"> protonfixes added for Black Desert Online </span><span style="color:#a71d5d;">`</span><span style="color:#323232;">NOSTEAM=1</span><span style="color:#a71d5d;">`</span><span style="color:#ed6a43;"> option. Launch game like </span><span style="color:#a71d5d;">`</span><span style="color:#323232;">NOSTEAM=1 %command%</span><span style="color:#a71d5d;">`</span><span style="color:#ed6a43;"> to launch non-steam standalone version.
</span>
It also supports ordered lists:
<span style="color:#ed6a43;">1</span><span style="color:#a71d5d;">. </span><span style="color:#ed6a43;">fixed </span><span style="color:#a71d5d;">`</span><span style="color:#323232;">[S_API FAIL] SteamAPI_Init()</span><span style="color:#a71d5d;">`</span><span style="color:#ed6a43;"> failed; no appID found. from being reported when running non-steam games
</span><span style="color:#ed6a43;">2</span><span style="color:#a71d5d;">.</span><span style="color:#ed6a43;"> non-steam games will now run using wine inside proton rather than calling steam.exe with wine then the game inside steam -- this goes alongside the API failure fix
</span><span style="color:#ed6a43;">3</span><span style="color:#a71d5d;">.</span><span style="color:#ed6a43;"> controller axis patch added from 8-27 has been removed as it is now properly upstreamed
</span>
The article also is too favorable for Valve and doesn’t mention alternative methods. The billion dollar company should allow people to install games on their browsers. The client is nothing but an analytics and tracker. There’s no benefit, just like there’s no benefit in XBox or PS4/5 achievements or their features.
Why is it Valves responsibility to provide alternative install methods? If you genuinely believe it isn’t providing value just don’t use Steam to buy games if you don’t want to install using it.
You’re kidding right? The Steam client is overflowing with features, beyond the nice and simple mod manager, multiplayey systems for easy joining it also has a full featured discord alternative inside the chat system with voice and text chat and I think even screen sharing. To compare it to Xbox achievements is just insane for how much the steam client provides.
XBox does the sane thing, why do you think it costs money to play multiplayer. Steam multiplayer isn’t even used because corporations have their own servers. The Client really is useless as it’s just a copy of XBox/PS+
Not really, usually Steam packages on distributions aren’t maintained by Valve. The only exception are .debs from their website. Even the Steam flatpak is community maintained.
I’ve had no issues with steam on nixos/nixpkgs. Flatpak also had it’s fair share of bugs and games not working because of flatpak and proton using bubblewrap for sandboxing. Snaps sandboxing might cause those issues too, so hopefully they’ll be fixed at some point (or even better, Ubuntu switches to flatpak for desktop apps).
How would I check which version I have installed? I just used Fedora software to install. I’ll have to check when I get home. Haven’t had issues, though, so probably not worth the trouble.
On Fedora you could do flatpak list --app to look whether Steam is installed as a flatpak. If not it’s installed through dnf, but that can be tested by running dnf list installed | grep -i steam. You could also open Fedora Software and I believe in the top right is a button to select where a package should come from. There’d be the option to choose between flatpak or rpm. Another way to test is to open a terminal and type in steam. If Steam opens, it’s a rpm, if the command is not available, it’s a flatpak (you’d need to use flatpak run com.valvesoftware.Steam, iirc).
Packaging software is usually not that difficult, especially if it’s already packaged in another packaging format. E.g. .deb and .rpm put the same files in similar places, the difference is mainly how It’s specified where a file goes. Because Snap and flatpak are providing a sandbox, complex software like Steam can behaves unexpectedly (fixed a few years ago for flatpak).
tl;dr
You’re right, it’s not worth the effort. Both rpm and flatpak should work flawlessly. If multiple games actually have issues running trying out a different package might help, but I didn’t have issues for many years, so you probably won’t either.
I know it’s because it’s horribly insecure, but it’s kinda funny that fucking winget of all things is one of the only package managers that install Steam without issue.
P.S. I’m a hybrid Windows/Linux user, pls don’t kill me
Edit: insecure and barely a package manager, but works roughly like one for an end user
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