Homes, a maternity hospital, a shopping center, and a metro station were hit as part of the attacks. The attack may have been linked to the destruction of a Russian landing ship in Crimea.
Murdering civilians is what Russia does. Ukraine achieves nothing by doing the same, yet will have plenty to lose by doing so. Why are you suggesting Ukraine stoop down to their level, which will likely result in the loss of support from its allies and legitimize Putin’s warmongering?
Putin certainly doesn’t care, but the people do. Until this war comes home to them, they have no incentive to do anything about it. As you say, Putin will be there forever conducting war until the people stop him. Or until Ukraine can take Moscow. But the west won’t allow that.
How well did that work out during World War 2? Oh, wait… all it did was strengthen the country’s resolve to fight back. Way to legitimize the war further for Russia’s citizens.
They are already universally supporting the war and fighting it. You are delusional to think otherwise. There can’t be more support than there is now. As long as supporting it means no consequences for most of the people in Moscow and St Petersburg, it will continue to grow. The only way for there to be any opposition is for Russians to feel the consequences because they care only about their own situation and nothing else.
Support get any more solid in Russia, so leaving Putin to do as he wants with no real consequence to his supporters is not the way out of this. The only way out of this is if Putin is kicked out by force, and the only way for that to happen is for people to get fed up with this. We are already living in the worst case that you portray. Russians think this is a war that was started by NATO.
Yeah exactly, remember how American’s didn’t care about the actions of their government overseas until it came home in the form of the 9/11 attacks, at which point they rose up to demand an end to their government’s bad behaviour?
Dunno which clowns downvoted you. All attacking civilians does is make them resolve to destroy whoever attacked them. History has proven that time and time again, but some people are too dense to understand the concept. Military and war production are always valid targets, civilians are not.
The war really can’t have more support than it current does in Russia. Pretty much the whole country is actively or passively supporting it. So this theory has already been soundly debunked. The Russian people care only about their own situation, and until they feel the results of this war, there will be no real opposition. Support can’t go up from here, but with some help it can go down.
If you compare Ukraine to Palestine there have been almost 3 times less civilian deaths, 20 times less child death. That’s not percentages but pure death numbers. Ukraine has 25 times the population size of Palestine.
In percentages israel had killed 50,000% more Palestinian children and about 6000% more Palestinian civilians than Russia has done in Ukraine.
If Russia was really purely targeting densely populated Ukrainian cities, the civilian death count in Ukraine would be looking a whole lot worse.
Targeting civilians has never been an effective way to deter an enemy, it just makes them angrier.
Seems like they should really be negotiating a ceasefire and not dragging this out since even the US is ready to drop support for them and switch focus to full support for the genocide in Palestine.
Come on, let’s not deflect from whose to blame here. Russia is sending missiles where missiles don’t belong. When Russian missiles kill Ukrainian babies in a maternity hospital, that’s Russia’s fault. They knew full well what they were doing.
This war could have been over months ago or never even started if it weren’t for NATO encroachment and sabotaging peace talks. I’m not defending Russia here I am pointing out reality.
All this is because the west would not let eastern Ukraine exercise any self determination after couping the government in 2014.
Russian soldiers supporting Russian agitators invaded they did not coup. The referendum for separation from Russia was in the 90s and voted for. Anything after that is nonsense.
The referendum was a joke. I saw one piece of Russian television coverage where they were “counting” the ballots. They were holding up every paper and just saying “yes” “yes” “yes” (in Russian) without even looking at it. Also, how do you hold a fair referendum when it’s done at gun point? No one feels free to say no when the people conducting the poll could just open their ballot, see they voted no, and shoot them on the spot.
You mean the referendum just last year right. I meant the independence referendum of Ukraine after the collapse of the USSR. This one: …wikipedia.org/…/1991_Ukrainian_independence_refe…. Here the whole of Ukraine voted for secession from Russia.
NP, so much fuckery has gone on around there, and the Tankies are doing their best to muddy the water even more by switching the narrative as if the people of Crimea and the Donbas chose to be chess pieces in Russia’s imperial aspirations.
So here’s the problem with peace talks. What would Russia agree to? They currently occupy a massive chunk of pre-2014 Ukraine, something like a quarter of the country. If Ukraine agrees to that, it sends a signal to the Russian government that invading Ukraine pays. Russia already made a go at installing a puppet government in the initial 2022 invasion. Why should Ukraine trust it not to take the time following a peace agreement to regroup and invade again? And besides that, Ukraine’s never going to easily give up that much territory. Imagine that happening to your own country.
None of you NAFOs ever stop to consider the right of self-determination that belongs to the people who live in the eastern provinces.
It’s pretty clear that the people of Donbas, Crimea, etc, do not want to be ruled by this Ukrainian government.
A sustainable peace deal would be Ukraine agreeing to not cooperate or be supplied by NATO, agreeing to respect the rights of ethnic minorities, and giving up the provinces that do not want to be part of Ukraine.
Why is it worth sending tens or hundreds of thousands more to their deaths over that?
It’s an extremely reasonable peace and this is what they turned down at the start of the war when Boris Johnson derailed the initial peace effort. If the west wasn’t so war-thirsty then this war would have been over in a week, or wouldn’t have happened at all so cut out the pointless rhetoric about “we need to teach Putler a lesson” because you’re being blind to some basic facts about how this war could have and was attempted to be prevented when you recite that mantra.
“The right to self-determination” so long as that self determination is becoming Russian territory and nothing more.
Let’s not lie to ourselves that this is anything less than Russian Imperialism. It’s Russian vs Western Imperialism all the way down.
Edit: both Crimea and Donbas are currently under Russian control. In the case of Crimea it’s been almost 10 years now under Russian occupation. If you believe they will leave Russian control I would love to see why you believe so.
It’s pretty clear that the people of Donbas, Crimea, etc, do not want to be ruled by this Ukrainian government
Maybe if you listen to Russian propaganda only. I have both Russian and Ukrainian family and it really isn’t that simple.
Your “peace” would be stripping any self determination of a sovereign country to appease the imperialist nuclear power on their border. Even after they have shown not to be trustworthy.
Ukraine might as well just surrender the entirety of their country instead of being a foreign ruled satellite state like Belarus.
Why should the people in those territories that pled for help against the coup government that was slaughtering them for 8 years not be allowed self determination?
And also as an anarchist I don’t believe in any legitimacy of either state, but if the people there feel safer under the protection of the Russian federation against the clearly Nazi captured Ukraine government, who am I to tell them what to do?
You talk of Russia trying to install a puppet government but the US SUCCESSFULLY installed a puppet government run by Nazis in 2014.
Oh dang we left the door open and a LIB wandered in. Poor little fella.
It may be helpful for you to consider this piece covering the long running problem with the far right that Ukraine has been dealing with. A cursory search would show you that this is a problem reputable news agencies have been documenting for years before the current war.
Liberal, proud of it. I’m aware of the problems Ukraine has had with its far-right. That doesn’t make it a “Nazi government”. Speaking of, are you aware of the problems that Russia has with its far right? Or is only a problem when it’s Ukraine?
Okay sweet so you’re aware of the role they’re playing in the current government then. Not sure why you found that idea objectionable a minute ago but whatever.
And yes I’m aware, not a big Putler fan here. It’s too bad the left is so weak in the former Soviet nations.
Personally I just hope a peace can be negotiated soon to save lives.
A Jewish person being part of a Nazi government isn’t the oximoron you people are trying to paint it as.
Nazis are hypocrites who never hesitate to act contrary to their genocidal racist brain rot whenever it’s politically convenient for them to do so.
This includes the original Nazis.
If you weren’t aware, the German Nazi state had a title, so called « honorary aryan », which they gave to Nazi officials (or people useful to the Nazis in some way) of ethnicity that the Nazis would have otherwise sent to concentration camps, among the peoples who were granted the title were a number of Jews.
The title offered it’s recipient immunity to the racist policies and laws of the Nazis as well as sometimes outright favor treatment.
The title was also used to justify allying with the Japanese as well as, less famously, some middle eastern countries.
Side note but still relevant, the third reish supported Israel, since the Zionist goal of settling European Jews in Palestine aligned with the Nazi goal of riding Germany of Jews.
As for the claims about neonazis in the Ukrainian government, you just haven’t bothered to look have you?
It’s literally so easy to find outlets that couldn’t be less associated with the Russian government talking about the neo Nazi problem of Ukraine. Just search Nazi Ukraine and filter between 2014 and 2022 and you will find tons of them.
Add comment