It’s spam. Worse: it’s a forum signature, and killing those was one of reddit’s greatest achievements.
If those rights were yours to reserve, they would be so by default.
Anyway, training a network on publicly-available data is fine, regardless of copyright. I endorse feeding every published book, song, and movie into the blender that fuels the magical artwork robot. You think your one-sentence jibe about yesterday’s news deserves more protection than those?
Yeah it harkens back to seeing people make those posts on Facebook about how they don’t consent to having their data collected and urging others to do the same before some imaginary upcoming deadline.
Until now I was under the impression that this was the goal of these notices:
If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you must distribute your contributions under the same license as the original.
Because if an LLM ingests a comment with a copyright notice like that, there’s a chance it will start appending copyright notices to it’s own responses, which could technically, legally, maybe make the AI model CC BY-NC-SA 4.0? A way to “poison” the dataset, so that OpenAI is obliged to distribute it’s model under that license. Obviously there’s no chance of that working, but it draws attention to AI companies breaking copyright law.
Your first mistake was thinking the company training their models care. They’re actively lobbying for the right to say “fuck copyright when it benefits us!”.
Your second mistake is assuming training LLM blindly put everything in. There’s human filters, then there’s automated filters, then there’s the LLM itself that blur things out. I can’t tell about the last one, but the first two will easily strip such easy noise, the same way search engines very quickly became immune to random keyword spam two decades ago.
Note that I didn’t even care to see if it was useful in any way to add these little extra blurb, legally speaking. I doubt it would help, though. Service ToS and other regulatory body have probably more weight than that.
I should add that there is one approach that could be taken here. Take this with a huge grain of salt because I am not a lawyer.
When you are posting on Lemmy you are likely granting an implicit license to Lemmy server operators to distribute your work. Basically because you understand that posting a public comment on Lemmy will make it available on your and other Lemmy servers it is assumed that it is ok to do that.
In other words you can’t write a story, post it on Lemmy, then sue every Lemmy instance that federated the comment and made it publicly available. That would be ridiculous.
There is a possible legal argument that twists this implicit grant to include AI training. Maybe you could have a disclaimer that this wasn’t the case. I don’t know how you would need to word this and if it would actually change anything. But I would talk to a lawyer.
In other words you can’t write a story, post it on Lemmy, then sue every Lemmy instance that federated the comment and made it publicly available. That would be ridiculous.
I don’t see how what you’ve described is matching the situation of attaching a license to your own content/comment. Seems like a non-sequitur to me.
Take this with a huge grain of salt because I am not a lawyer.
Might not be best to try and give legal advice off of a hypothetical, if you are not a lawyer. Especially in a conversation that is already contested/heated.
Because people don’t understand how copyright works.
In most countries any copyrightable work that you produce is automatically covered by copyright. You don’t need to do anything additional to gain that protection.
Most Lemmy instances don’t have any sort of licensing grant in their terms of service. So that means that the original author maintains all ownership of their work.
So technically what these people are doing is granting a license to their comment that allows it to be used for more than would otherwise be allowed by the default copyright protections.
What they are probably trying to accomplish is to revoke the ability for commercial enterprises to use their comments. However that is already the default state so it is pretty irrelevant. Basically any company that cares about copyright and thinks that what they are doing isn’t allowed as fair use already wouldn’t be able to use their comments without the license note. So by adding the license note all they are doing is allowing non-commercial AI to scrape it (which is probably not what was intended). Of course most AI scraping companies don’t care about copyright or think that their use is not protected under copyright. So it is again irrelevant.
Ding ding ding. It’s basically the equivalent of that “I don’t give Facebook permission to use my statuses, pictures, etc for commercial purposes…” chain letter that boomers love to post. It has enough fancy legalese and sounds juuuust plausible enough that it’ll get anyone who doesn’t already understand the law.
Now that I understand it, I’ll be able to block the bloc of boneheads.
I know that a broken clock is right twice a day but using a broken clock is just dumb. Out of the 1440 minutes in a day, it gets 1438 of them wrong? Broken clocks get binned.
Definitely along the same vein, except it doesn’t drag a bunch of innocent people into it like SovCitizens do when they drive without a license or insurance or refuse to pay back loans/credit cards.
Ohhh come on now, you’ve got too see the irony here. Don’t you get tired of repeatedly adding that license? No, of course not. You just like the attention, it’s okay lol I won’t tell anyone your secret ;)
Don’t you get tired of repeatedly adding that license?
I’d prefer if Lemmy had a signature field as part of the account, so I could put it there once and forget about it, yes.
But otherwise it’s a long press copy, and a long press paste, and I’m done. It’s not rocket science.
No, of course not. You just like the attention, it’s okay lol I won’t tell anyone your secret ;)
No human being on this planet would want to be constantly harassed by, and having to defend themselves from, astroturfers/bots who are trying to prevent other people from jumping on the bandwagon of protecting their content by licensing it explicitly.
It’s a pain in the ass speaking with people like you, especially the when they think that they’re ‘Winning!’ with their assumed snappy replies.
I’ll be explicit, again. Leave me the f alone about my using of a license! If you don’t like seeing the license as part of my comments, FEEL FREE TO BLOCK ME. The repetitiveness is becoming harassment.
protecting their content by licensing it explicitly.
You can do whatever you want, of course. But any license you put on your content here protects it less than not putting any license at all. That’s after all what licenses are for, granting people use of your content.
So you’re not so much protecting your comments, but graciously allowing them to be used for training for non-commercial purposes, where most people are greedily keeping them to themselves. I suppose that’s admirable.
So you’re not so much protecting your comments, but graciously allowing them to be used for training for non-commercial purposes, where most people are greedily keeping them to themselves. I suppose that’s admirable.
You’re not telling me anything that I don’t already know.
I have no problem for my content being used for open-source reasons. Commercial reasons without compensation is another matter.
I don’t care about seeing your content. I’m sure its good. I just believed that the internet was a tool to end data scarcity and instead we’ve moved much further back and now with all this stuff we’re just putting nails in that coffin. I still hold out for a world were data is shared and people collaborate to produce new content.
It’s a fundamental misunderstanding of how you automatically have copyright on any written work you produce, and how it’s unclear whether any sort of licensing even applies to training data in the US.
Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration.”
Yes, so you have copyright when you make the work. I have copyright on this comment just for having written it. Pasting a CC notice would give me less control over the use of this comment, not more. Regardless, I doubt anyone is planning on suing a multi-billion dollar business over their comments on social media being used as training data.
Why wouldn’t it be? It’s just as much a textual medium as a PDF, or a book, for that matter. Hell, any file on a computer can be read as characters. I could type Homer’s Odyssey in a series of comments, or the source code to DOOM, or the color values of every pixel of every frame of a video I took of my friend chasing a duck.
What about when people paste copypastas, share memes, or reference age old arguments? The very culture of internet comments seems to be opposed to copyright.
As long as you aren’t committing copyright infringement by using a meme you don’t have the rights to, and otherwise meeting the standards of having a “modicum of creativity,” I don’t see why you wouldn’t have copyright on it. That being said, there are few goals more futile than that of trying to remove something off the internet for copyright infringement.
That’s why DMCA exists. For the most part, the Internet is full of copyright infringement that is simply never acted upon. DMCA shit makes it so the posters and the host aren’t liable for infringement, so long as they comply with official take downs within X period of time (with a chance to appeal).
Pasting a copypasta is probably actually copyright infringement. Same with memes.
The thing about copyright is that it really only matters if you choose to enforce your protection. Presumably the owners of the copypasta don’t care enough and the owners of the memes think it brings more popularity to the movie than any licensing costs they could possibly gain from selling the stills.
(Some memes may be considered transformative enough to be fair use, but some of them almost certainly are not.)
Video game streaming is a clear example of this. Almost certainly live-streaming or doing full gameplay videos are infringing the game owner’s copyright. The work is often commercial, is often a replacement for the original (at least for some people) and very rarely transformative. But most game publishers think that it is worth it for the advertising. So they don’t enforce their copyright. Many publishers will explicitly grant licenses for streaming their games. A few publishers will enforce their copyright and take down videos, they are likely well within their rights.
I don’t know if I would say the internet is opposed to copyright. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding and a lot of not caring. If the average internet commenter posts a meme it is of such minuscule cost to the owner of that work that it doesn’t make sense to go after them. So it sort of just happens. This makes people think that it is allowed, even if it probably isn’t. Most people would probably also agree that this is morally ok. But I don’t think that means that they are against copyright in general. I think if you asked most people. “Should I be allowed to download a CGP Grey video and reupload it for my own profit” they would say no. Probably similar for “Should I be allowed to sell cracked copies of Celeste for half price”.
Because certain types of text aren’t actually copyrightable. You can’t copyright a fact, for one.
Copyright does not protect facts, ideas, systems, or methods of operation, although it may protect the way these things are expressed.
For some of those (ideas, systems, or methods of operation) you need a patent. Even with the copyright clause in a comment, it might not be valid. At least concerning US laws.
Yes. However whether or not it has protections under copyright is not always clear. Likely your comment is too short and simple to be protected. But if it can’t be protected claiming to grant a license to that work doesn’t change it.
Basically by adding this note they are effectively granting a license to the work. There is no situation in which granting a license can restrict how a work (which is effectively maximum protection).
It’s a fundamental misunderstanding of how you automatically have copyright on any written work you produce, and how it’s unclear whether any sort of licensing even applies to training data in the US.
For what its worth, I do understand copyright, and how it works. Part of my including the link is for futures sake, as I know that right now as we speak type Congress is getting lobbied for new laws on who owns the content that AI models are being trained from, and who has to pay who for the privledge of using that data to do so.
Congress is getting lobbied for new laws on who owns the content that AI models are being trained from
Training AI from something definitely can’t change who owns that thing. This is ridiculous and I’m pretty sure isn’t being considered.
If I let AI watch Frozen does that change who owns it? No Disney still does.
who has to pay who for the privledge of using that data
IIUC most of the laws talk about if AI training is “fair use”. If it is fair use copyright protections don’t apply. But granting a license to your work won’t change that.
The only thing I could see potentially being done would be changing the default copyright protections to allowed a revocable default grant for AI training. But it isn’t even clear if granting a new license would implicitly revoke that default grant. It also seems unlikely that this is the way the law would work.
I remember that shit. Most of them thought that Facebook “going public” meant that everyone could publish their Minions memes without permission. 🤦🏻♂️
Check if you actually saw multiple people or if it was always just a single user called internetpersona. They are the only one I saw doing that but are quite active here, so you might get a wrong impression. Imo this is completely useless.
I dislike it but merely because it normalizes having to sign content with an anti commercialization license to refuse to have your data harvested. Contributing to AI should be opt-in.
I agree it should be opt in but most platforms take ownership of your words as soon as they are submitted allowing the platform to decide if they want to sell the data for ai.
I agree it should be opt in but most platforms take ownership of your words as soon as they are submitted allowing the platform to decide if they want to sell the data for ai.
Lemmy.World does not (at least I didn’t see that in the TOS).
And besides, because of federation, its better if I explicitly state my claim to my content inside of the content itself.
I dislike it but merely because it normalizes having to sign content with an anti commercialization license to refuse to have your data harvested. Contributing to AI should be opt-in.
Congress may (and probably will, one way or another) change that in the nearish future. But until then, you protect your content in the legal ways that you can.
I too would prefer not having to add the license/link to each of my comments. If Lemmy.World added a ‘signature’ field to an account, I could just put it there once and be done with it.
You don’t need to license each of your comments. By default you retain all ownership. So you applying a license is strictly allowing more use. Basically if AI training was not allowed due to copyright than they can’t use any comment by default. If AI training is fair-use (which seems to be most companies’ claim) then it is irrelevant how you have licensed the comment.
In no situation does granting an additional license to a work restrict the ways in which works can be used under other licenses.
No, it is more. You aren’t restricting anything, it is just a superset of uses. If you want to explicitly license your comments for wider use that is fine, but don’t misrepresent it as “Anti Commercial-AI”. Just frame it as licensed for non-commercial use.
No, it is more. You aren’t restricting anything, it is just a superset of uses. If you want to explicitly license your comments for wider use that is fine,
There are restrictions included in that license, you’re incorrect in that.
But my point, which you are ignoring, is that when someone includes a license it doesn’t have to be for more restrictive nature, or for more open one, but just different from the default if the content was not explicitly notated with a licensed.
but don’t misrepresent it as “Anti Commercial-AI”. Just frame it as licensed for non-commercial use.
I’m not misrepresenting anything, you’re the one getting overly hung up on that short layman’s sentence which describes my purpose for including the license in the comment.
The actual representation of the license it’s included to the right of that sentence.
I’m pretty sure we’re not going to agree on this, you really weirdly seem hung up on this, and I’m not agreeing with your opinion on the matter, so let’s move on from this point.
On a tangent subject, why does everyone push back so forcefully, why do they care so incredibly, why do they enforce group think on you, just for including a link for an open source license in your comments?
I truly don’t get the level of fevor, especially when they could just block the user if they don’t want to see the license link.
But even more so, why does it trigger people so, why just having that link brings out the worse in people?
Are people trying to format the Internet so they see it exactly how they personally want to see it?
I truly don’t understand why we’re wasting so much time discussing this.
Is it really just the AI modeling companies that are forcefully trying to keep this from becoming a thing, by astroturfing, because then they really would have to start honoring the license if everyone did it, and if they get caught not doing so fearing the political/marketing and legal ramifications of such?
It's annoying to scroll through and many people don't want to see this sort of misinformation spreading. Even if I can block a couple of people, I certainly don't want to see it become a trend.
Because it’s stupid and pointless, and I will assume that anyone who adds it to their comments is as well.
To clarify, I’m not anti-open source license. I’m also not anti-tin foil hats. Please feel free to wear them if you want. I completely support your right to do so, but it’s also my right to judge you and laugh behind your back.
Because it’s stupid and pointless, and I will assume that anyone who adds it to their comments is as well.
To clarify, I’m not anti-open source license. I’m also not anti-tin foil hats. Please feel free to wear them if you want. I completely support your right to do so, but it’s also my right to judge you and laughbehindyour back.
Look at your response to me, its rude, in a ‘killing the messenger’ sort of way. Why not just let it go by without attacking someone to their (virtual) face (not ‘behind’) for doing it?
Why does it trigger you so? Its just a link.
I thought Lemmy was supposed to be better than Reddit.
Sorry, I was actually trying to be as polite as possible, and despite what you might think, I don’t care. At all. Not enough to downvote your comments, nor enough to comment about it in another unrelated conversation.
You asked a question and I thought you honestly wanted an answer as to why you got so much hate for it.
I like to use emojis. Some people don’t respect that, and they have every right to think less of me because of it. It doesn’t mean that I’m anything that they think I am, and I can choose whether or not I care about what they think. I can stop using emojis to appease them, or I can 🤷🏻♂️🖕🏻😂.
Because you are effectively spreading misinformation.
Your behaviour leads people to believe that in order for their comments not to be used for commercial AI training they need to have a signature. But that isn’t true, at most the signature is allowing more uses of your comment, not restricting anything.
People already struggle to understand copyright. Adding more confusion is doing everyone reading your license a disservice.
I would very much like to not be astroturfed/brigaded every 18 to 24 hours because I’m licensing my comments.
Usually the first comment is someone asking me why I’m using a license, then the second comment replying to the first comment is someone else chastising my intelligence and my usage of the license and saying I don’t know what I’m doing, and then explaining the completely wrong terms why I’m licensing it, and then the first person from the first comment replies with the third comment saying how dumb or silly or funny I am for doing that, rinse / repeat.
(A funny aside, the pattern I described above, the third comment was identical text, with days separating the two occurrences, and then later on someone went back and changed the third comment on the second most recent occurrence to be worded slightly different, after the fact.)
Another one is I get someone who goes on very very long diatribes asserting law and legalities (even though when I ask them if they are a lawyer they never answer, or they say no), using many paragraphed comments to tell me in every way why I’m wrong, but then finishing their diatribe off with how they really don’t care about the subject, but are just giving a friendly explanation to me why I’m getting downvoted, when I didn’t ask, and when voting wasn’t even being discussed.
And finally, the 10-15ish downvotes on every comment I’m making. (The one that really made me laugh was the one where I reply with one word, “Thanks”.)
Just leave me the f alone. If you don’t like seeing my comments with a license link, feel free to block me.
I’m not very affected by it, honestly. It makes me chuckle that people get so offended about a link in a comment. Sometimes I respond, but quite often I block and move on.
Sometimes I respond, but quite often I block and move on.
You look through my history in the last fiveish days, you’ll see an excessive amount of people attacking me for using the license/link. You can only block so much before admins really need to and should step in and ‘tend to their garden’, especially if its being done by astroturfers and it borderlines on harassment.
Plus blocking here doesn’t keep them from seeing what you post and replying to it, only you seeing their replies. So I don’t consider it as actual blocking.
A) Talk to your admin about harassment and ask them to look into this when they can.
B) Start posting in communities that have a higher intolerance to this kind of behaviour (I’m thinking Beehaw communities)
C) Make a post on !anticorporate and see if you can get even more people doing it.
I’m actually thinking of adding these to my posts as well now just to see more people’s reactions. Do you know of a way to automatically add it to the end of your posts?
I’m actually thinking of adding these to my posts as well now just to see more people’s reactions. Do you know of a way to automatically add it to the end of your posts?
Lemmy.World doesn’t have a signature field at the account level, so I copy/paste the signature in.
This is the unformatted text that I’m copying/pasting …
As far as other communities goes, they’re following me around, and using seven-day old accounts to harrass.
At the end of the day, I’m going to keep doing what I’m doing. Its just a pain in the ass to open my inbox and see crap in there, is all. Wish the admins would step up.
FYI I’ve found that if you download a text expander it allows you to make shortcuts for these kinds of texts making it much easier to add automatically.
FYI I’ve found that if you download a text expander it allows you to make shortcuts for these kinds of texts making it much easier to add automatically.
Nice! Yeah I used my phone’s text feature to send myself a text one time, and then just long-press on the text to copy the message and long-press in the Lemmy editor to paste the text.
My phone actually has a copy and paste memory feature of some sort, but i only see it when I copy, I don’t see anything when I try to paste (only the last thing in the buffer that was last copied is pasted).
Oh wait I forgot lemmy.world isn’t federated with beehaw.org anymore so you can’t use those communities. Because usually most of the kinds of comments you would be getting would be removed by now.
Well you can get a second account to join beehaw communities or again just reporting and all that stuff.
But honestly I really think you should make a post on !anticorporate getting more people to do it because this is the kind of thing that would be interesting to them.
Yeah all of this hate just feels unnecessary. I’m sorry that @onlinepersona and you are going through this.
Its so, irrational, for a single link in a comment.
I’m still of the thinking that its astroturfers trying to prevent licenses from being used (which if true, would REALLY like Lemmy.World admins to start handling the astroturfers). Either that, or its the non-‘touch grass’ anti-social crowd, which seem to rule here on Lemmy.
Never expected this level of a Spanish Inquisition. /queueMontyPython
WARNING: Any institution or person using this site or any of it’s associated sites for study, projects, or personal agenda - You do not have my permission to use any of my profile or pictures in any form or forum, both current or future. You do not have my permission to copy, save, or print my pictures for your own personal use, including, but not limited to, saving them on your computer, posting them on any other website, or this one and passing them off as your own. If you have or do, it will be considered a violation of my privacy and will be subject to all legal remedies.
I am not reading your comment, I am simply traveling through it with my eyeballs. Also your comment doesn’t have gold fringe and therefore lacks jurisdiction.
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