grist.org

Lemonparty, to climate in New documents show oil executives promoted natural gas as green — but knew it wasn’t | It's the first evidence of an oil company acknowledging that gas wasn't as climate-friendly as promised.

Not that long ago, I got downvoted to hell (by shills) for pointing out that oil companies latched on to the term “natural” and paired it with “clean burning” and then deliberately obfuscated the fact that natural gas is methane. There is nothing clean about it, it is burning methane.

So for anyone that doesn’t know, natural gas is methane and oil companies have ALWAYS known it’s terrible to burn and worse to drill for because it leaks directly to the atmosphere where it’s significantly worse than CO2.

rayyy,

Natural gas fracking pushes pollutants into the underground water system too.

admiralteal,

Even without accidental site leaks, the infrastructure itself leaks terribly. Residential fossil gas systems are constantly venting tiny amounts of methane from throughout the system, with occasional major issues that can go days or weeks without notice until a sniffer van or something like it catches it. This happened at my house just recently -- my gas was fully capped off the week I moved in, but a guy showed up now several years later from the utility and said he was there for a detected leak and he had to remove the meter and re-cap everything. The whole time trying to convince me that gas stoves are better than my undeniably-superior induction one.

For all I know it was venting at a decent clip this whole time. Nothing I could really do about it. It's not like I was checking the meter what with my no service, and as far as the guy could tell the leak was from before the meter anyway.

And it'll get worse as the systems are used less. A smaller subscriber base means these companies will inevitably cut repair and maintenance budgets, leading to more leaks. More methane. The only safe and sensible thing to to have public takeovers on them and then immediately start working to decommission.

Maeve,

I'm wondering about all the campers and RVs that are propane reliant, and heating around the globe that is propane reliant. I guess occupants of dwellings will largely be left to sort things, without much financial aid incentives.

admiralteal,

Propane's a different thing. It's just trading in bottles. Those bottles will keep being available for a long time and are, frankly, not a major emissions source. Still one we should get rid of, but it's not a low-hanging fruit. Propane is also still one of the more climate-friendly refrigerants, so it's definitely sticking around.

As far as people in situations like that relying on fossil gas distribution infrastructure... one way or another they're going to be left holding the bag.

Electrified appliances are almost universally better for consumers both in quality and economics. Electrification and gas-free new construction will keep happening. Keep accelerating.

The infrastructure of gas is already built. It costs a lot to maintain it even as poorly as they do. As fewer ratepayers are using the system, the remaining ratepayers have to pay a larger and larger share of that cost -- making the gas even more expensive and an even worse choice for consumers. Inevitably, the poorest folks who cannot afford to replace their appliances but also cannot afford to keep using gas will be left behind. That's the reality of the privatized system we have.

I feel bad for all the people who are going to get fucked, especially since for many it was bogus that they were saddled with fossil gas in the first place (e.g., bribes to builders/subdevelopment managers).

Pilgrim, to climate in New documents show oil executives promoted natural gas as green — but knew it wasn’t | It's the first evidence of an oil company acknowledging that gas wasn't as climate-friendly as promised.

We need to just stop digging stuff out of the ground and burning it for energy. Until that fundamental realization sets in, we’re stuck with an increasingly worsening climate crisis.

Maeve,

Only until we reach, for lack of a better term, event horizon. So not too long, now.

ryannathans, to climate in Taking Big Oil to court for 'climate homicide' isn't as far-fetched as it sounds

Deflecting a bit from legislators claiming that it was oil companies “blocking legislation”. Sure, they lobbied but who are the ones with the pen in hand?

Dramaking37,

I assure you that system is by design to reduce accountability

dangblingus, to climate in Decades after the US buried nuclear waste abroad, climate change could unearth it | melting ice sheets and rising seas could disturb waste from U.S. nuclear projects in Greenland and the Marshall Isla

“iTs ToTaLlY sAfE!”

Drusas, to usa in Will Arizona close a loophole that lets developers build without water?

We as a country, and especially places like Arizona as individual states, need to crack down on people building in locations like this. It is not sustainable and they should not be catered to. Those people wanted luxury properties with all of the amenities of a city but without the same taxes that the city has. This is exactly the sort of situation that the expression "they want to have their cake and eat it, too" is for.

Stop developing homes and (most) farms in the desert. Stop enabling this sort of selfish, short-sighted usage. Kick people out if you have to; eminent domain is a thing--rarely good, but this could be a good use case for it. They will only have less and less water over time while still demanding similar levels at low prices. It is not sustainable even in the short term.

shalafi,

Imma take the opposite tack. Let them build! Hell, go nuts, go absolutely ape shit. Let the suckers buy it. But ZERO public funds go towards bailing them out. Find a way to get your own damned water, and not by tapping public waterways, or get fucked. And that especially includes farms.

We can’t make laws to cover every sort of human stupidity. This is the sort of foolish regulations conservatives rail about, or used to… This isn’t about how an established city, a capitol city like Jackson, MS or even a smaller one like Flint, MI got fucked on basic human resources. These assholes are building suburbs in a desert. I have zero care for what happens to the contractors or buyers.

I bought a couple a acres of Florida mud and swamp for my own personal playground, SHTF spot and maybe a retirement place one day. It’s totally shit land, but my inheritance covered it (mom, COVID). Guess what it has on it? Water and flora and fauna. Food and fucking water. Hell, I’m trying to figure out how to drill my own well on the cheap. How dumb do you have to be to buy land and/or build a house in an environment lacking basic human needs?!

tl;dr: No new laws needed. Let the buyers experience that rugged American spirit themselves.

(We’re pretty much on the same page OP!)

teamevil,

I have to say…your plans sound good until you get to Florida …it’s awful here. But there is water, but also Florida man

DessertStorms, to climate in Most Americans want to electrify their homes — if they can keep their gas stoves
DessertStorms avatar

People here seem unaware that there exists a 3rd option that isn't either gas or induction - a ceramic hob is electric, heated coils under glass, but you can use it with any pot or pan, so there's no need to spend all that extra money replacing all your cookware, and the hob itself is cheaper too.

calypsopub,

Not unaware, just not mentioning it as an option because it’s so inferior.

Schmuppes,

I got an induction system yesterday and ripped my old ceramic one out. I mean, it worked okay apart from the fact that it was slower and would take a while to cool down again.

What always bothered me was not always having the ideally sized one and seeing all the red glow around the bottom of the pot or pan. “Fuck, I’m wasting 30 % energy right now…”

Phrodo_00,

And they’re terrible at cooking: any change in temperature, including heating up takes a ton.

yildo,

I like my 2012 electric stove. I don't notice any difference in cooking experience when I use my parents' gas stove at their place, except the flames require more aggressive ventilation

DessertStorms,
DessertStorms avatar

They've served me perfectly well for over a decade.
The difference in supposed quality wouldn't be noticeable to most while the difference in cost definitely would be. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

huginn,

How much do you pay for electricity?

Because with an induction stove you’ll be paying 30% less in cooking costs.

Bonehead, to news in New York calls PepsiCo's plastic pollution a 'public nuisance' in first-of-its-kind lawsuit

They should just create a bottle exchange like they do with glass bottles and aluminum cans. Charge the same 5 cents, and people will go out of their way to collect bottles to return for that 5 cents. Most people won't even notice the bump in price, and their habits won't change. But there's always others looking to make money, and this opens a new avenue to keeping more plastic out of the environment.

WarmSoda,

Or, OR the company takes responsibility and doesn’t dump trash in the environment instead of some trash return scheme that pushes the responsibility onto the public.

Bonehead,

Yes, the company should be made responsible. But do you want a solution that may actually work, or do you just want to complain that it's not perfect?

WarmSoda,

The company not causing the issue is the solution that will work.

Bonehead,

Great...work on fighting to make them do that. I truly hope you win. In the meantime, how about we do something about the existing problem before it gets worse?

WarmSoda,

If only there was a lawsuit brought to the company in question by the government to force them to do it…

Bonehead,

You still have to win it first. But until then, how about we just actually do something about the problem?

WarmSoda,

You seem to think they’re dropping empty 2 liter bottles down the hill and people can walk over, pick them up, and return them at a bottle return.

It’s literally plastic trash, not something you can hike over with your kids and collect for a few cents.

And again, the public should not be held responsible for a giant company’s horrid acts.

Bonehead,

Right, so you just want to complain...

WarmSoda,

No. I want the company to own up and take care of it. Not the regular people that live in the area.

Idk why that’s such a difficult thing for you to understand.

ExLisper,

What do you mean? The existing problems is plastic packaging and the solution is to ban it. Make an exception for water and that’s it. No one needs any other drinks. If someone really wants to drink Pepsi make them pay extra and carry glass bottles. Let’s stop behaving like plastic bottles are essential for life and get rid of this shit.

FireTower,
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

The problem here is individuals littering. IMO a law that forces companies to instead use a different type of packaging that can degrade naturally would be more effective at imparting change.

EmptySlime,

Those bottles already have that deposit on them in New York State. I regularly see tons of people going around Buffalo picking up bottles and cans to take back to redemption centers for the deposit. All that plastic in the river is happening in spite of that 5 cent redemption.

Now this part is just an anecdote but the people I personally see most often chucking their bottles on the ground are Canadians tossing them out their car windows. Which makes sense since you can’t take them back across the border with you and still get the deposit back. They’d have to do it before heading back to Canada.

grue,

All that plastic in the river is happening in spite of that 5 cent redemption.

Sounds like they should adjust it for inflation: apparently the first bottle deposit started in 1971, so the correct price for the deposit in 2023 should be closer to 38¢. (Or maybe even more: Michigan’s bottle deposit has been 10¢ since 1976, so the inflation-adjusted price there would be 54¢).

DirigibleProtein, to urbanism in One solution to fight climate change? Fewer parking spaces - Grist

Getting rid of parking spaces just creates frustration among commuters unless you provide real practical alternatives to driving — dedicated bike lanes; proper public transport that has enough seats, runs frequently and on time, and arrives close to where people are going; and/or formal car pooling.

Bicycles aren’t practical for everyone. Public transport that requires passengers to stand for 20 minutes or more while crammed in like sardines; or public transport that runs every half-hour or more, isn’t useful — it actually discourages use of public transport. The only car pooling that I’ve seen work is when it’s organised within large companies so that people are going to the same destination and have something in common to talk about on the ride.

Waving a magic wand and canceling car parks is most definitely not useful unless proper alternatives are available.

Edit: Also, the plural of “minimum” is “minima“.

HobbitFoot,

Yeah, but at minimum, it may be good to get rid of mandatory parking minimums and the prioritization of good parking next to mass transit.

It doesn’t have to be a lot of pain, but a little can help.

htrayl,

Yup, this can easily be a 10 year + project.

TeaHands,
@TeaHands@lemmy.world avatar

I despise car-reliant infrastructure as much as anyone but yeah, this has to be approached from all sides you can’t just punish people who use cars due to there being no alternative, and then STILL give them no alternative.

That said, the article implies that this is in fact part of a larger plan and just removes one blocker, so I guess we’ll see if that ends up being true or not.

htrayl,

Yeah, don’t buy into the strawman. At no point did anyone say “let’s not do anything else”. Removing the parking minimum tax enables the rest of it.

aniki,

deleted_by_author

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  • soloner,

    Not when the weather is shit. You’re not gonna get humanity to get up for a bike ride and have to take a shower on arrival just to go get groceries, for example.

    There are a lot of different things that impact this, not just weather. The point isn’t about not picking one thing but to recognize it’s not feasible for everyone, full stop.

    ProdigalFrog,

    If there was really solid bike infrastructure, I think covered electric tricycles capable of towing small capsule trailers could fill that gap fairly well. Something like this or this.

    htrayl, (edited )

    People do this all the time in communities that emphasize biking. Easily. And actually, it isn’t that difficult to do.

    Further, driving isn’t feasible for everyone, but driving is emphasized in such a way that alternatives cannot thrive.

    See: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU

    JJROKCZ,

    I work 20+ miles from where I live due to what I can afford. I’m not biking that lol I’d consider taking a train if I could take the bike to the train and from the train station to work. But I’d still be biking on busy roads not safe for bikers

    htrayl,

    Part of why you have to live so far is because parking minimums create vast amounts of space that sits empty 90% of the time.

    The other part is because of stringent zoning regulations that kill real housing options.

    htrayl,

    Oh the Urbanity had a great video on how a large portion of non-commuting trips can be made by bicycle.

    sonori,
    @sonori@beehaw.org avatar

    Depends quite a lot o the climate and time. If your in a place where ice and heat stroke aren’t common, and have a shower at work, and don’t have to travel at night, and don’t have to deal with sharing the road with fifty mile an hour traffic, and can afford to spend the extra hour or so a day, and can find a place to stash your bike where it won’t be stolen immediately, etc…

    Bicycles require a lot of infrastructure and time, as well as an amenable climate. As much as i would like for the vast majority of humanity to be able commute every day by bike, the infrastructure simply isn’t there even in the places where you don’t have harsh winters. The goal of all transit, be it bike metro bus or car, is to get people from point A to B in the most effective way practical.

    Build the infrastructure, and they will come. If they don’t, then figure out what you did wrong with the infrastructure.

    grue,

    Getting rid of parking spaces just creates frustration among commuters unless you provide real practical alternatives to driving

    Good. Let them be frustrated, because that’s how you get public support for real practical alternatives to driving!

    Quit bending over backwards to accommodate cars FIRST and the good urbanism will follow.

    htrayl,

    Adjusting parking minimums and reducing parking over time is absolutely the way to promote alternatives. It promotes higher better access to services (as land can be used for alternatives) and cheaper housing (meaning you can live closer to where you work).

    The reality is we are vastly overparked. Depending on where you live, there can be 8 TIMES the number of parking spaces than cars. You can pretty easily reduce parking by 1/3 and have near zero impact for drivers 99% of the time (maybe on black Friday you may need to take a ride).

    Also, just want to point out to the conservatives and libertarians in the crowd: Parking Minimums are a TAX. Worse, they are a tax that overly affects small business that is less likely to be able to get the support they need endure the taxes effect on their finances.

    vivadanang,

    nothing can be done, so let’s just stick our heads in the sand and wail.

    oh wait, no, human behavior and values change over time. so we can use that to our advantage by not enabling selfish fucks who refuse to change with the times. No one’s expecting metro service to rural households, but also, it’s insane to expect your right to your own single person transport while the world is on freaking fire.

    so you do you bud, but understand the rest of society is going to change and you can fight it, but it won’t make you right.

    Changetheview, to climate in US Workers are dying from extreme heat. Why aren't there laws to protect them?

    “OSHA regulations take an average of seven years to be finalized. In July, Democratic representatives introduced a bill that would force OSHA to speed up this process. It was their third attempt. They have failed to secure enough votes every time.”

    That is insane. Not only do private interest groups “lobby” (bribe) our leaders to avoid regulation, even if it something miraculously goes through legislation, OSHA takes another 7 fucking YEARS to finalize it. That’s downright pathetic.

    Nudding,

    Written in blood.

    TonyTonyChopper,
    @TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz avatar

    a 3 year old in OSHA time is starting their career

    ptz, to environment in Across the Midwest, communities grapple with the idea of a future without coal
    @ptz@dubvee.org avatar

    My state has many ghost/zombie towns that have all but died out because the local coal mines closed. Speaking from experience, clinging to the past is not going to do them any good because what’s coming is coming one way or another. And it doesn’t even have to be because coal is displaced by renewables.

    For better or worse (cough worse cough), coal is still huge in my state, but when there’s a disruption such as the mining company going “bankrupt”, the mine becoming unprofitable, mining permit revoked, etc, the communities that rely on it often fall into squalor because that’s their only livelihood.

    It’s truly sad to see, but it’s an obvious danger for any community to rely on one finite industry for sustenance.

    RickRussell_CA, to environment in Mobile homes could be a climate solution. So why don't they get more respect?

    Well, watch Last Week Tonight’s expose’ on the mobile home industry.

    These homes are built to shitty, even dangerous, standards. Or no standards at all.

    Five, (edited )

    Interestingly, John Oliver said nothing about construction standards, though I’d be surprised if it’s not as huge an issue for mobile homes as it is for other recently constructed homes. The primary problem seems to be people not owning the land beneath their homes.

    Obligatory fuck Frank Rolfe and the The Carlyle Group.

    RickRussell_CA,

    Admittedly I was working from memory, I could swear that his piece had at least a short discussion of the low quality materials and workmanship of mobile homes.

    Jaysyn,
    Jaysyn avatar

    Unless something has drastically changed recently, they literally use building scrap to make mobile homes.

    I've worked on several of them, all of the construction is sub-par. Interior wall lumber is often shorter pieces, scabbed together.

    Fried_out_Kombi, to climate in Amazon deforestation continues to plummet
    @Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.world avatar

    Elections have consequences. In this case, good consequences.

    Veltoss, to technology in Hackers already infiltrate EV chargers

    As bad as this may seem, and not to try to downplay it, this seems like a good time to remind people that this kind of vulnerability isn’t limited to cars charging at public spaces. Any time you connect devices to anything in a space you don’t control, you’re vulnerable. That goes for public wifis (many of which are just businesses farming your data + hacker risks), and public charging stations that could have compromised chargers with malware.

    Bootheal0179,

    My mom always told me I should clean public toilet seats before I sat down, otherwise I’d get an STD or something worse.

    Earthwormjim91,

    Also, people have been putting skimmers and other things on gas pumps for a loooong time and stealing credit cards.

    PlaidBaron,
    @PlaidBaron@lemmy.world avatar

    Can confirm. I had my CC skimmed at a gas pump before I bought my EV.

    The thing is, I have only used public chargers maybe 10 times total. 99% of the time I plug it in at home where I know no one is gonna steal my CC number.

    Lemonparty, to climate in Northern Michiganders are getting off propane — and on to natural gas

    So switching from propane to methane. Cool. Coooool. Cool cool cool.

    riodoro1,

    But it’s natural. It must be good for you.

    someguy3, to climate in Northern Michiganders are getting off propane — and on to natural gas

    The problem with heat pumps in northern areas is they work until it’s cold outside.

    admiralteal,

    They work basically unimpaired into zone 4b, which includes all of northern Michigan. This encompasses something like 98% of the entire human population of North America and even the vast majority of Canada.

    They will need some support on the coldest days in up to zone 2b, at which point their efficiency drops to a mere 100%.

    You're spreading fossil fuel industry-driven FUD. Stop it.

    Squizzy,

    So get a hybrid system, likely to get your money back in a few years of savings.

    Also how cold is it, mine is productive up like -35°

    dogsnest,
    @dogsnest@lemmy.world avatar

    Above the Arctic Circle North?

    Otherwise, you’re full of shit.

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