What I think happened is one of my ships must have hit a terran patrol ship by accident and triggered the whole thing.
I'd be inclined to agree with this, I can't see much of any other way that the situation could have come to pass if your rep was 30 at the start of all this.
As for how to get them to stop being hostile, you can't really do anything there (there was a handy mod for this but it hasn't worked for a while now). They will calm down on their own though after some time. Just stay away from the Terrans for a while so that combat doesn't keep happening and they'll go back to non-hostile after a little while.
As for how to actually do the above? Well, if you're based in Getsu and Asteroid Belt... Well, shit, that's a tough one. Are a lot of the Terrans over there hostile to you, or just a couple of patrols? It's not like you're at war with Terra or anything, but if there are too many of them showing red in sectors where your stations are based then avoiding conflict could be difficult.
The standard way to handle this is to just wait it out and 30-60 minutes later it isn't a problem anymore. Eg: You've pissed off a station and it's red and hostile now, just stay away from the station for a while and it resets. I'm not certain of how you'd manage that when the situation is reversed. Thankfully, I've never been in this position.
If we weren't talking about Shipyards here I'd be tempted to just tear down the stations in question and re-build them later once the bullshit has blown over, but that's really not an option when discussing things of that scale.
And yeah, you're doubly fucked that this is happening with Astroid belt, that's some really bad luck considering its particular location.
If you can avoid combat for long enough, the hostiles will reset and become friendly again... Good luck!
Now, prevention. There you do have a valid path ahead of you. The only way you could have gotten into this would have been if your forces were shooting at someone, so it'll be KHA or XEN. In Getsu Fune XEN are the more likely culprit anyway. Easy fix for this problem, bring your war machine to Getsu Fune and pacify the shit out of the whole place, then place defence stations at the gates to The Void and Savage Spur. If you make Getsu as safe as possible then you can avoid unhappy accidents entirely. With no XEN, that just leaves periodically nuking the KHA installations once in a while, which is trivial enough as you know.
Are you hostile or at war with any of the Commonwealth factions too? That could complicate things a lot if so.
Thanks again. Luckily it was just one patrol that is hostile.
I pulled everyone out of asteroid belt and basically put that station on hold. I built a new factory to supply the shipyard in getsu fune and a backup one in savage spur with heavy defenses.
The terrans attacked my station in asteroid belt, brought it down to about 50%, but I think it managed to kill the patrol. My reputation dropped down to 27, however I haven't heard any angry terrans reporting me to the police in a while.
I'm only at war with ZHA and I've taken oven everything but one sector. I am going to focus on building up my own sectors until the terrans calm down.
Lol, the joys of trying to live with the Space Nazis.
I should just stfu there though, I'm based in Split space so I can't say a damn thing since I've made my billions supporting the expansion of literal slavers. :D
Haha. So I'm an idiot and started mining in asteroid belt again and started the whole damn fued over again after an hour or so. I'm now below 25 reputation and can't teleport to terran stations anymore. I think I just need to abandon that station.
Well, I don't play Terran but I'll chip in as regardless of faction, the differences between a carrier and a non-carrier will still be clear enough even taking into account the fact that one of them is an Asgard.
So, principally, one is a carrier and one isn't. Seems like it's just a word, but it matters. Whilst they both can house 40 S class ships, the Tokyo has 18 actual docks for them, vs the Asgards 3. Meaning that when the shit needs shoveling, the Tokyo can launch the whole lot in 2.2 waves, vs the 13.33 waves needed for those same ships to launch from the Asgard.
Lets say that it takes 30 seconds to launch a wave (guessing, but it's probably fairly close), the Tokyo has everything out and ready in just over a minute, probably less considering that the first wave will be on the pads and ready to go anyway, vs the almost four minutes needed for the Asgard to ready its fighter complement.
If you're running with flight wings of torpedo bombers, that's enough of a time difference to destroy 3-5 Xenon K's should they have tried to ambush your capital ship. Of course, the Asgard has its Bullshit-CannonTM to help it in this respect, but even that isn't taking out 5 K's in under four minutes due to the recharge time. Of course, sending in either class of vessle without an escort fleet would represent an almost criminal negligence of acceptable fleet doctrine anyway (normally, there are edge cases though). In real terms, there is an issue of only having a wing of 40 torpedo bombers, meaning that they may run out of ammunition before all 5 K's are dead, I can't say that I've ever been ambushed by 5 at once so I'm not sure exactly how many one wing of 40 can take out. I know that 30 Chimera's setup that way can take out at least 3 without running dry though, so I'm confident enough about the numbers. I'm not sure what the Terran equivalent ship to the Chimera would be, pick a heavy fighter and you're probably good to go.
There's also the question of wether or not your capital ship can even survive for those four minutes under that kind of fire... Much would depend on how good the pilot is at tactical maneuvering, etc. I've not ever actually used an Asgard, but I'm sure they have some survivability here, they're almost legendarily tanky so far as I know.
Yes, carriers are massively OP if you have all of the fleet logistics and support industry setup correctly, even moreso than the Asgard.
Of course, getting amubshed by fleets of K's isn't exactly the standard use for a carrier/battleship, so what about the difference between the two in more normal situations?
The main thing here is that because the Tokyo is an actual carrier, it has access to all of the carrier AI that comes with one, such as Position Defence, allowing you to deny specific areas from enemy access, setup rapid response forces from a central location that will strengthen other areas on an as-needed basis, etc. This is all remarkably useful and cannot be done from a non-carrier platform regardless of how much ship storage space there is. It all adds into the actual worth of running a carrier group, which is force projection over an extended area, whereas an Asgard is about being an unstoppable removal tool against specific targets.
Also, as a carrier the Tokyo can automatically repair docked ships, ships which will automatically re-dock when combat is finished when using normal attack commands, or re-dock on an as-needed basis when using Position Defence points, etc. An ability which will greatly increase the resilience of your fleet when on a protracted deployment. None of that is going to happen with an Asgard as it isn't a carrier and has no capacity to do any such things.
Of course, unless you have specific reasons such as doing a Terran Only run, you should just use a Raptor instead of a Tokyo, but you're literally doing a Terran Only run, so...
The carrier specific things going on in the Tokyo (and all XL carriers) make it effectively a mobile airbase, with all of the maintenance facilities and command and control capacity which comes with that. When considered for the same purpose, the Asgard is merely a large box that can carry a bunch of ships. That's your main difference there.
That makes sense. My asgards bleed fighters. I built a second carrier group to try it out a little more for defense. The auto repair is great. I'll probably load it with 20 interceptors and 20 torpedo ships.
I'm still a bit confused on the logistics. I can't assign a trader to the carrier. Does it need materials for repairs? Can I skip auxiliary ships in carrier groups?
Ok, so fleet logistics is a little more involved once you're using fighter wings, and more so again once you're using torpedo wings.
The carrier will repair docked fighters, but that's pretty much it. Even that much is game-changing though when it comes to fleet resilience.
To do fleet logistics right, especially once you start using fighters with torpedos (which you absolutely should, as it's the most powerful doctrine in the game), you need a multi-tier logistics approach.
Firstly, there's your carrier, this would be the fleet command vehicle. You'd have your fighter groups attached to this via their intercept/bombard orders, let's call them alpha and beta groups.
Then get yourself an auxiliary ship (the big XL ones that cost about 60 million credits to buy), attach this to your carrier as one of the later groups down the list, kappa or epsilon iirc, so that it doesn't get in the way of your other flight groups, like destroyer groups or extra fighter wings and such that you may want to also attach to the carrier. (having it at the bottom of the list here isn't necessary at all, but it's a nice quality-of-life thing when it comes to organization). When attaching the auxiliary ship to the carrier, it should be attached under as "Supply for Commander", rather than the usual attack/defend orders you use for your fighters/destroyers. This will tell it that its job is to see to resupplying/repairing the fleet under that carrier.
Now, attach to the auxiliary ship a number of M class trade ships, and group them as whatever group, let's do epsilon again here as they're non-combat, and add them under the order "Trade for commander". This will make them go out and buy the necessary resources to fill up the storage of the auxiliary ship with whatever's necessary. You can see the space that it has assigned to various resources in its info tab.
What this all does is that when your fighters need to repair, they can just go to the carrier and do it. When they need to resupply missiles, they'll go to the auxiliary ship which will build them missiles out of the stored resources that's in its cargo bay. When the auxiliary ship runs low on resources, the M-class traders attached to it will head out and find the resources to buy, then bring them back to the auxiliary ship and deposit them there, ready to make more missiles, etc.
The whole thing will work passively if you have the money to pay for everything. Once you start with torpedo wings, attacking things starts costing money so you need the financial foundation to back up a carrier group like that, presumably, that isn't a problem if you're on a long-standing playthrough. The auxiliary ship will also make its own open buy orders so that NPC traders will just come along and sell resources to it like with a station. It's a good help to your own logistic traders.
On top of the above, the auxiliary ship can also happily repair your other capital ships should it have the required resources for it, they'll head over and link up with the auxiliary ship as needed for repairs/rearming.
EDIT: A couple of additional points here would be that, along with repairing/resupplying everything in the fleet, the auxiliary ship will have good docking storage for ships, so you generally put spares in there for when your flight wings eventually take actual losses. The Honshu (Terran auxiliary) can store 40 S-class and 10 M-class ships inside. So, you can bring a mixture of spare fighters for your various flight wings so that you can replace losses instantly when in theatre. The 10 M-class slots can be used to store extra M-class transporters which can be kept permanently in there to expand the cargo space of the Honshu itself. You can transfer cargo from the M-class ships to the Honshu itself while they're in storage by using the wares transfer menu, they don't need to undock or anything. This is important as it greatly increases the amount of missile resupply that you can handle without having to get restocked from external sources using your fleet of M-class traders. Large wings of heavy torpedo bombers take enormous amounts of resources to resupply, so supplies tend to get stretched thin at some point.
Wars, after all, are won by logistics. This isn't so true in X4 when using energy weapons, but once you move up to Heavy Torp wings it becomes an absolutely inviolable Law to live by.
Launch rate is actually very useful for overwhelming enemies and minimising fighter losses in my experience.
Also the Tokyo can repair and resupply ships while the Asgard cannot (as far as I know).
Asgards are an OP endgame ship anyway.
The Tokyo is available earlier, provides a different set of strengths that works well with Osakas and most importantly to me, effectively denies enemy S and M ships from an area.
I usually stick a honshu with my asgard to act as support. Could I skip the honshu on my carrier fleets then? If you can't have a trader assigned to the carrier it's hard to resupply though.
I do find I lose my tako interceptors quickly and usually leave them docked on my asgards unless I'm chasing down faster ships.
I have hundreds of hours in these games and still have no idea what I'm doing.
Yeah, I was pretty much in awe the whole way through.
Hell, even just the start where he's just raging into the fight at that speed with that ship and no backup... You can already tell that things aren't going to be at all normal.
great that there is something here for X4 now, there wasn’t initially when I’d looked
Yeah, same. I mean, when I came here I wasn't really expecting to find anything either, but then thought about it and realised that at some point someone was going to just have to go ahead and do it. I wondered about it for a bit and eventually was just like "Ah, fuck it, why not? Lets just set up a community and see what happens"
but in addition I’ve added the Waypoint Fields for Deployment mod
So that's how everyone's posting pictures of those beautifully tidy satellite arrays. That's awesome!
Jesus, it even gives you the ability to finally deploy working minefields?! I may have to get that up and running, looks great.
My first game was vanilla and I only now started looking into various mods, but I don't want it to feel too cheaty though.
How long does it take to get to 5 star pilot with Faster Crew Leveling? I hate how slow it is in vanilla but I also dont want to end up with 5 star crew overnight.
This is what I've got so far:
Inventory Collector
Faster Crew Leveling
Crystal Rarities
Secret Stash
Fly-by Looting
X4 Fire and Smoke
Better Kill Credit
Head Hunter
I set this community up because I couldn't find one on here when I switched from Reddit, but, not gonna lie, I wasn't expecting anyone to actually find it. Welcome, I guess.
How long does it take to get to 5 star pilot with Faster Crew Leveling?
Honestly, a while. Three stars is relatively easy but five takes some time. It's a pretty good balance of still having to work towards having good staff, but at the same time be able to actually have the mechanic exist.
I haven't timed it, but, to give an idea:
I set up a ton of stations in a system recently to run a self-sufficient shipyard and wharf. Probably around 20 stations or so spread around one sector, each station started with four M class freighters. High volume stations like refined metals, hull-parts, microchips, etc, got swarms more ships, probably 15-20 each, plus a couple of fleets of L transports to help out, then another 40 or so M's for the shipyard and wharf logistics... Some stations had a few more M transports added where needed, not too many though.
That was probably started around 60ish hours ago?
A couple of days ago I made two fleets of five Behemoths each and wanted five-star pilots for them so I started the internal promotions, I struggled finding pilots for the last three destroyers. I got 10 five-star pilots in the end but definitely had to look around. Most pilots were around mid-three to mid-four stars. I assume the fives were some of the first ships for the first stations built.
It's a fairly similar timeframe to how the universal trader software would skill up in X3, if you have any experience with that. I'm fairly sure that you can tweak the mod too, if you want.
Hahah I know the feeling, I keep stumbling upon desolate communities and I'm never sure if there's anyone else there but it's worth giving them a try. People do tend to slowly trickle into them even if they are not 'marketed' too much, as long as they see at least some activity. It's hard to match the amount of content that reddit has but so far I found that you don't need thousands of people to have a nice vibe going on (but it helps to have at least 10-100).
Thanks for the details, tbh I'm not that far into the game to have fleets of capitals but I have a few stations with basic productions, a dozen or two miners (M and L mostly) and dozens of S-scouts doing the exploring and price-updating for me. I remember reading about a mod that scaled xp gain for larger actions (so a freighter selling a full cargo for huge profit gets more xp than a scout selling 1 energy cell), but also saw comments that said this made it completely OP and they were swimming in 5 stars IIRC. If FCL is reasonably balanced it's definitely something I'd like to try out. I did play a lot of X3 but that was like a decade ago ^^
Yeah, during the first week or so of the big surge from Reddit I was watching the new magazines panel and I was seeing people arrive and immediately make dozens of new magazines for all of the big Reddit subs. Not sure if they were bots or whatever but I'm pretty sure most of them just got squatted, so they're mainly dead.
Kinda glad that the X games are niche enough that they seem to have been missed. Depressing that it happened though.
As for content, I don't think there's really a need to compete for quantity. One thing that seems fairly prevalent here on Kbin/Fedi is that people seem to be having actual discussions. There's decent quality content here even if there isn't the vast torrent of it like back on Reddit. I quite like it tbh, there's less seeing a thread that you'd like to engage in and realizing that since it was made two hours ago, there are now 13,000+ replies and no point in posting anything. I'm enjoying being able to actually "Take part" here a lot more than was possible on something the size of Reddit.
I think we just need enough content of actual quality, and it'll be good enough.
I did play a lot of X3 but that was like a decade ago ^^
I know what you mean, but if you remember how sector traders would eventually turn into universe traders and use the jump drive, this feels similar in how it's balanced.
I'm halfway positive that most of the legitimate complaints about the AI in this game come from the implementation of the glacial skill leveling for pilots though. Five-star pilots are hardly perfect beings, but Jesus Christ they at least work.
In case you're wondering, in the current patch, having a fleet of destroyers attack a station OOS actually works if you're using five-star pilots. Like, it works consistently. If you have other forces to handle enemy reinforcements coming to help the enemy station, a fleet of destroyers is literally a guaranteed kill on that station by just issuing an attack order. If the pilots are 5-star and you have destroyers with 10km main guns.
Meaning, the AI works, but is artificially broken on lower-star pilots, which are all you can really get without mods... Egosoft, there's always something, isn't there?
How are you finding Better Kill Credit? I was thinking that it sounded pretty good but then I saw some posts about just how much money people were getting and backed off as it seemed like it would be inadvertently a bit exploity. I like the idea of it, I just didn't want it to break the game progression the first time I place a defense station.
My only fleet combat experience was sending my ragtag group of a destroyer i got from the terran story, some medium ships and a few fighters to defend miners from khaak - thanks to their low patrol / defend range i had to manually instruct them on how to find enemies. My other experience was sending them to grind xp by participating in gate defense against xenon (one of the chokepoints that is always contested) and I think I lost half of the fleet almost instantly due to the explosion from a larger capital ships.
So for now I'm just hiring L ships immune to khaak, and letting argon and terrans defend from xenon that can't really do much anyway. Good to know about how much skill level matters, but is it just for "leaders" of fleets and wings or does every individual pilot need to have it too? It really seems troublesome without the mod.
Egosoft, there's always something, isn't there?
I really feel like at some point they just need to dedicate a month or two to playtesting and fixing some of the nonsense in the game, from crew management to mission design or similar basics. I know it makes sense to veterans by now but it is just so counterintuitive at first, you really can't play the game the way it would make sense - you have to figure out what the devs intended and then just follow that instead.
At one point I wanted to setup constant transfer between my two stations. The logical solution to me was to create a repeat order of a transport "loading resource to max at station A, then unload resource to 0 at station B". There was no indication in the game at all why this doesn't work, I had to google to find out that repeat order won't work with it and instead I had to use the cumbersome warehouse station UI, blacklists and whitelists, setup trade prices, and all of this messed up my regular trade orders with NPCs as well ofc. Or why my L ships wouldn't unload wares despite everyone being loaded with cargo drones (you still need the dock apparently, but there's no warning for that anywhere). The game hates me 😁
Loool, stop or you'll trigger my PTSD from the time a few versions ago when I tried to get a combination of the following to work when trying to funnel mass resources from FRF space to ZYA with about 40 L transports:
Repeat orders,
Mimic Commander,
Transfer Wares,
I must have spent two or three hours trying to figure out why nothing seemed to work like it obviously should, only to find out that it was because you just can't, and fuck you if you ever wanted to.
Instead, it's setting up trade routes with buy/sell prices between point A and point B, Repeat Orders, do it again but reversed, with reversed buy/sell prices for point B to point A, then do it again 40 times because there was no way to do any of this to a fleet of ships at once... Oh, and if you, for whatever reason, like pirates or xenon or anything, have to issue an actual order to one of these ships in an emergency, you'd best remember exactly what they were doing, their prices, their destinations, wares etc, because you'll almost certainly have to nuke their order list in order to make the pilot actually do what you want at the time so that he doesn't die. Fml.
All I wanted to do was to stick 39 ships into a fleet with the 40th being the commander, and have the commander do a thing, with his fleet mimicking that thing. The "thing" was move shit from one place to another. Was that too much to ask? Was it? They must have wanted to do something like that at some point and realized that it was necessary, surely?
Hilariously enough, I think that they actually added something like that in a more recent version. I wouldn't know for sure, I've been too scared to go back and touch the idea again. :p
Yeahhh, I gave up on mimic commander and wings for non-combat ships completely, it's an absolute nightmare! And they didn't even think of folders or groups so my fleet window is just a flat list of miners, transports, traders, scouts sorted alphabetically! I really expected more from german engineering and like half a dozen games in the franchise, instead even the basics are a struggle :P
Like, not sarcastically at all, I've been playing them since XBTF back in 2000/2001 (I skipped X2 because I didn't have a PC at the time, and Rebirth because... well...). But if there has been one phrase that has always sprung to mind in every iteration of this series when using the UI it would be "Built by engineers, for engineers".
And as messed up as the X4 UI can sometimes be, it's by far their best shot so far.
X4 Foundations
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