Daughters and Fathers

This is a serious question, mostly addressed to the adult women among us but also to anyone else who has a stake in the matter.

What did your father do for you/not do for you, that you needed?

Context: I have recently become a father to a daughter, with a mother whose father was not around when she was growing up. I won’t bore you all with the details but our daughter is here now and I am realising that I’m the only one in our little family who has really had a father before. But I have never been a girl. And I know that as a boy, my relationships with my mother and father were massively influential and powerful but at the same time radically different to each other. People say that daughters and fathers have a unique relationship too.

Question: What was your father to you? What matters the most when it comes to a father making his daughter loved, safe, confident and free? To live a good life as an adult?

I’d like this to be a mature, personal and real discussion about daughters and fathers, rather than a political thing, so I humbly ask to please speak from the heart and not the head on this one :)

Thank you

P.S Apologies if this question is badly written or conceived; I haven’t been getting enough sleep! It is what it is!

lennybird, (edited )
@lennybird@lemmy.world avatar

My wife’s father is still peddling that toxic masculinity bullshit on his grandson, saying…to our 1-year-old… To toughen it up.

My wife about lost it on him. Now that was to our son but for our daughter it would be no different and it’s a reflection of her childhood.

Being emotionally unattached, uncomfortable with crying, and being incapable saying sorry and admitting you’re wrong are simply massive. Kids are kids but they have a keen sense of justice and parents should empower them to stand up for themselves and be proud of them for exposing you as a hypocrite… Not beat them with a belt…

And for goodness sake, play with your kid. She wants to play dolls? Dress you up? Paint your nails? Tea time? By god you do it! If she wants to play with army men (they make army gals, too), go for it!

earlgrey0,

I apologize but this will be kind of dark. As a father I know you are going to be desperate to protect her, but don’t wax poetic about dealing violence to anyone who would do her wrong. For example, don’t talk about beating her current boyfriend/girlfriend if they cross her. Girls are going to have shitty relationships because that’s a part of growing up. Don’t make her think talking to you about them is the nuclear option when she’s still trying to figure out what is acceptable and her boundaries. If she thinks you’ll go beat the shit out of any one who looks at her funny, she might not come to you with her problems until she is willing to accept her dad going to prison for a long time. Everyone is right about listening to her, but make sure she that she knows that you can be trusted. Listen, accept her decisions, work with her, and not to fly off of the handle. Best of luck new father, since you’re asking the right questions I think you are going to be fine.

fiercekitten,

Thank you for mentioning this. I think it’s really important and often overlooked because it’s shrugged off as “dads will be dads” behavior.

earlgrey0,

I am really happy that people are willing to consider how toxic that aggression is. It’s so engrained in our culture that it’s considered normal when a father threatens to have his gun out when first meeting his daughter’s partner. Nobody really thinks about the effects of this normalized violence.

originalfrozenbanana,

What everyone else has said but - apologize when you’re wrong. Tell your children that you were wrong, why you acted or said what you did, and how you will try to do better next time. Set the example that everyone is wrong, that it’s more important to make it right than be perfect

Devi,

My dad never spent time with me because we didn't share hobbies, I tried desperately as a kid to get into what he liked, but he never tried to get into what I liked. My mom knew the names of the kids on Barney, what snacks cheered me up, or what friends I had in school, my dad also lived in the house.

As adults we've found common ground in politics and TV, and we have a relationship now, but we'd have a much better relationship if he'd tried to hang out with me back then.

So I guess my advice is just hang out with her, whatever form that takes. Time is so important.

sik0fewl,

What do you remember your dad for?

DessertStorms, (edited )
DessertStorms avatar

We hear everything.

When a "wife bad" or "women belong in the kitchen" (or whatever the slightly less boomer versions are today) joke is made, when women are objectified and/or comments are made about women's appearance (from the presenter on tv to the woman next to you on the bus), her weight, how much make up she is or isn't wearing, her sexuality (disparagingly describing someone as a lesbian because they have short hair for example), shaming her for looking "easy" or "attention seeking", when dismissing, minimising, and even mocking news of sexual and gendered violence, when victim blaming and saying shit like "she's only accusing the celebrity for money", "if he was so abusive why didn't she just leave?" or "what did she expect, going to a party dressed like that?", and so so many more examples. We hear it all, and we learn who is safe to confide in and who isn't, who will take us seriously if something happened to us, and who wouldn't, who would make us feel better about ourselves, and who will bring us down.

Also it's all well and good to support your kids when things are easy, it's when things get hard that the strength of your relationship is truly tested, and I can tell you from personal experience that even the seemingly strongest bonds can get completely severed if you prioritise your ego over their wellbeing.

RustyShackleford,

Don’t be afraid to be wrong and take accountability for your actions. I personally admired my grandpa for telling me this before his passing, there’s no shame in diligently striving for honor.

Most importantly, fight for those who can’t fight for themselves, you might never see the results of your actions; but you’ll be able to sleep soundly at night.

Asclepiaz,

My dad told me to eat salads and lose weight when I was a little kid. I will never forget. Please don’t shame her, weight and appearances are so touchy but criticizing every bite I ate only fucked me up. I was chubby, I still consider myself the same proportional level of chubby as when I was a kid. I have yoyo dieted my whole life and when I see him I still just push food around my plate.

The one great thing I remember about my childhood was driving long distances the two of us. He would often need to drive a few hours out of town to pick stuff up for work, and I would sit in the passengers seat with one of those huge map books and I would navigate us there. It was a ton of fun just doing mini road trips once or twice a month.

I also went to conventions related to his profession, the topic was boring but conventions of any type inevitably have loads of candy dishes. Just doing things together the two of us felt special.

Churbleyimyam,

I’m sorry that your dad said those things about food and weight and it caused that for you. I’m also really grateful for the advice and happy that you had sweet times together too. It’s really cool that he took you with him for hose trips.

farcaster,

By asking this question you’re already ahead.

Be your genuine self. Share your wisdom. Love your child.

nalinna,

Don’t drown their perspective out because you want to convince them of yours.

sik0fewl,

Good luck with this one, OP.

TequilaMockingbird,
TequilaMockingbird avatar

I had an excellent father. He wasn't perfect, but his imperfections and occasional impatience made him more human and relatable. Don't pretend to be perfect - let her know that everyone makes mistakes not just by saying it, but by showing them yours. Our world has become better for women to live in, but there still is a silent pressure on women to be flawless. Physically, emotionally, academically, professionally - we are not supposed to show weakness if we are to be taken seriously. Show her it's ok to be imperfect, this will be even more meaningful coming from a male role model.

And I'll echo what others have said - listen to her. Even if it's stupid ramblings about her favorite band or what a classmate did or any number of things you really do not care about. When she feels heard on the little things she will know she has a voice in the big things.

Lastly, be honest with her about the world not being fair. This was something my dad maybe could have done better. I was supported and told I can do anything a man can do, but I wish I would have known a little sooner what societal obstacles I was actually going to face. You don't have to make it sound ok or even acceptable, but all girls should know what they're up against so they can be prepared to face it head on.

glouriousgouda,

Listen. Listen and make sure they know you hear them. Actively engage in thier interests. Be honest. Just don’t bullshit them. Daughters know. Mine are 27 and 11 and those are my biggest missteps along the way.

Oh, also be wrong. Be wrong and accountable. And learn.

Churbleyimyam,

I can see see myself prone to those mistakes, as well as reluctant to avoid them. So it’s good to know they’re important and that it’s worth trying to. Thanks for that

Jimbabwe,

I’m sorry I can’t contribute much, but as a fairly recent father to an amazing 3yo daughter, I’ll be following along!

Churbleyimyam,

All the best to you fellow father :)

tiefling,

My perspective is slightly different since I’m a trans woman (have been for 10yr), but I was also raised by just my dad.

The main things I learned from him that have actually been useful are things like how to use a variety of tools and do basic handyman type jobs around my living space. I learned a lot of hard skills from him, but not so much soft skills. I can comfortably fix a toilet, patch a wall, or mount a TV. I also picked up the basics of firearms and engines from him, though I haven’t had to use that knowledge yet. The things that have been useful that I had to learn on my own were how to cook, how to sew, and how to clean.

I wish he had let me explore my emotions a bit more. I learned to repress my feelings and now struggle with that a bit in adulthood.

The best advice I can give is to be open and give her space to talk about what’s troubling her. Be an active listener, and don’t shrug her off when she’s sad or angry. Encourage her to learn hard skills that may be useful in the future, but also don’t be hesitant to learn soft skills alongside her. Let her practice styling your hair or painting your nails if she wants to. Gender norms are outdated anyways. More than anything, love, respect, and trust her.

meowMix2525, (edited )

Yes! On the other side of this, as a cis woman, don’t be afraid to teach her practical, hands-on skills that don’t conform to whatever ideas you have about gender roles. My dad wasn’t in my life much, though my grandfather was a fair bit. I was always jealous of the boys that were raised to have “shop” skills. I wanted to help with that kind of stuff but the adults just kind of shrugged me off, where I feel like if I was a boy I might have been invited or even volunteered to help. All the older men that have worked alongside me in shops act surprised when they see that I can hold my own around power tools. The only exception might be some of my robotics mentors.

I learned what I know mainly from a couple projects with my grandfather and some classes/clubs I took part in in high school, and while it’s something that does just click for me, I got to engineering school and felt pretty alienated when the boys had way more practical knowledge about things like cars and computer networks. Their father figures didn’t shy away from those topics with them and gave them solid foundations to build their skills upon.

Of course, you might not have those particular specialties yourself and she might grow up to be into different, traditionally “girly” things, but you won’t be able to say it was for a lack of support or because you were reluctant to share that side of yourself/your interests with her. It’s a whole level of connection that I think is too easily missed between people raised as girls and their father figures, while those raised as boys, yes, probably are more likely to miss out more on the emotional end of things. Both are important for a well-rounded human being.

Alice, (edited )
@Alice@hilariouschaos.com avatar

Removed

roofuskit,

As a father, love your child, accept your child, and above all listen to your child.

Churbleyimyam,

Thanks so much for your advice. Listening has come a lot in this discussion and I wasn’t expecting it… Why is that? is it because listening shows a daughter that she matters?

roofuskit,

Everyone needs to feel heard. You won’t always be able to solve all their problems. But you can make them feel heard. And often that’s more important.

Alice,
@Alice@hilariouschaos.com avatar

Removed

Usernameblankface,
@Usernameblankface@lemmy.world avatar

Because listening takes energy.

lennybird,
@lennybird@lemmy.world avatar

Being a parent is like one part being a therapist, one part being the fence to the boundaries of exploration, and one part being The Doctor or some superhero in your child’s eyes capable of making magic and excitement happen. Fucking incredible, honestly.

Churbleyimyam,

What a great way of describing it. And what an absolute honour and privilege to be that for someone!

mryessir,

Because even though you might know what will be best for her - You might not have her big picture.

Alice,
@Alice@hilariouschaos.com avatar

Removed

red_rising,

You won’t always know what’s wrong with your daughter or what she needs but if you listen to her, like really listen, she will tell you which is so much more important.

In the long term, her being about to tell you things will make her feel safe and validated, it will strengthen your bond with each other, and it will help her develop the emotional intelligence to express herself in a healthy way that so many kids are missing these days. It’s win win win.

frickineh,

I’ll add to what others have said about listening, don’t assume she wants you to solve every problem. My dad used to do that and it drove me crazy, especially when he’d point out out like it was so obvious. I often already knew the solution, but sometimes I didn’t like it or just wanted to vent before moving forward. I think it’s good for most relationships to ask, “do you want advice or is this just to get it off your chest,” before responding, not just with daughters, but I’ve noticed dads are particularly prone to wanting to fix the thing.

Railing5132,

I think our lizard brain jumps to the fore and want to be like: “unga-bunga - problem! Me can fix with solution! It make tears stop!” when in reality, like you said, kids want someone they trust to give them permission to do the thing they know they need to do. They need to know they can come to you and be open and safe and loved.

Churbleyimyam,

Yeah, it’s like that as an adult too. Pretty much everything feels better when there is a sense of compassion and empathy but not always the case with solutions. It makes me think that in general as humans we are much more concerned with each other than we are with the world. Or even ourselves, perhaps.

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