Jon Stewart’s Apple TV Plus show ends, reportedly over coverage of AI and China

cross-posted from: lemmy.ml/post/6745228

TLDR: Apple wants to keep china happy, Stewart was going after china in some way, Apple said don’t, Stewart walked, the show is dead.

Not surprising at all, but sad and shitty and definitely reduces my loyalty to the platform. Hosting Stewart seemed like a real power play from Apple, where conflict like this was inevitable, but they were basically saying, yes we know, but we believe in things and, as a big company with deep pockets that can therefore take risks, to prove it we’re hosting this show.

Changing their minds like this is worse than ever hosting the show in the first place as it shows they probably don’t know what they’re doing or believe in at all, like any big company, and just going for what seems cool, and undermining the very idea of a company like Apple running a streaming platform. I wonder if the Morning Show/Wars people are paying close attention.

ChaoticEntropy,
@ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk avatar

“Let’s talk about all the cheap Chinese labour that Apple uses despite being the 10th richest company in the world.”

“Let’s not.”

SCB,

Chinese people deserve jobs too. Comparative advantage is a good thing that helps everyone involved.

The Yuan is currently trading at 7.32 to 1 USD

Companies that appease the CCP are the problem, not companies that leverage exchange rates to better lives globally.

Krauerking, (edited )

Boy you sure do sound like you just got your MBA. Chasing the cheapest labor and lowest regulations really doesn’t do much for the populace other than make them slave laborers for better products for the benefits of other nations.
If the wages are the same across multiple industries then it doesn’t really help right? It’s just taking advantage of a poor countryand enriching higher members of that country who actually do see the most profit gained.

It might help in getting advanced manufacturing set up in the country but that actually also hurts countries that rely on advanced manufacturing to keep GDP high when they are creating their competitors while doing little investment into themselves.

So yes it works to get the cheapest product possible but it’s really not the super helpful beneficial concept that you think it is and the whole world is not richer for these jobs we give to them to enrich further a group that just chases the quickest profit.

SCB,

Chasing the cheapest labor and lowest regulations

It demonstrably improves their personal wealth, incentives inclusive institutions, and changes countries. History is most assuredly not on your side here.

Nativism is a plague and populism is the cancer nativism spawns.

steltek,

What a strange take when a mountain of evidence is right in front of you. China went from “nothing but cheap labor” to the next world superpower because of exactly this kind of exchange. They have modern cities with rapid transit, EVs, and a top tier domestic tech industry.

Krauerking,

Well yeah I mean I kinda covered that. They now have advanced tooling and active investments into their infrastructure and country. It’s not yet actually reaching the majority of China and there is still wide issues with these investments. But now companies will have to find the new cheap labor if there is increasing access to jobs that are to pay enough for the citizens to access these higher standards.

A country can’t be cheap labor and an important market without either massive divide in the populace or slave labor.

And if they can’t get cheap labor there anymore these companies will leave and create rust belts like there are in the US. At which point the advanced manufacturing arm and service economy could take over if it’s built enough but they join into a already crowded space with dwindling access to resources. Not to say things haven’t gotten better in sense of moving forward technologically and amenities wise but that is basically always a guarantee of time passing. But this hunt for cheap goods for top level enrichment is not a wholly good venture and is quite destructive in ways that take little effort to see.

SCB,

Why, specifically, do you hate the global poor?

Krauerking,

Wow what a terrible response meant to cause an inflammatory response instead of having a discussion about a topic on an intellectual level. You have set up a pin with an impossible answer and claimed that you are the only right response to knock it down.

But, I have an answer. I care about their well being and not their economic status. I don’t care if they are making more money or not and they aren’t from my country. My countries laws will have no direct impact on them and while I care about the ecology of the planet I can’t be reasonably expected to care about everyone.

You falsely assume globalist ideals are the only right way to live and I would rather care for those immediately around me who have an impact on my life.

We can aim for bettering of societies that aren’t our own without it being based entirely around taking advantage of their cheap labor and unawareness of their lacking systems.
You speak as an economist who only thinks in terms of money without any real compassion and assumes money is compassion.

SCB,

But, I have an answer. I care about their well being and not their economic status. I don’t care if they are making more money or not

These two things are incompatible

You falsely assume globalist ideals are the only right way to live and I would rather care for those immediately around me who have an impact on my life.

And this is evil

Krauerking,

Oh my God you are a moron. I am just so sorry, I thought you were capable of complex thought there.

Which I guess was my mistake, I did see your other comments.

…Evil. That’s funny, you have definitely truly never met actual evil. Trust me it’s much worse than loving those close to you and caring for others as much as you can, without over dedication of mental space to those you can’t. And as annoying as you are I actually hope you continue to never have to deal with evil, I hope the world is better and you get to remain a protected smarmy dick. Evil is truly repugnant in a way you apparently can not actually comprehend and it’s better if it stays that way.

SCB,

Literally laughed out loud.

Thanks man.

OsrsNeedsF2P,

The Yuan is currently trading at 7.32 to 1 USD

That means nothing without knowing the total supply

SCB,

It means everything when talking about people’s pay.

Aceticon,

For that you need 2 data pieces:

  • The median pay of chinese workers in Yuan.
  • The Yuan - Us Dollar cross currency exchange rate.

You then use the second to convert the first into US Dollars so that you compare the Chinese salaries in USD to American salaries is USD.

Merely the second piece of data wIthout the first means nothing if you’re trying to compare salaries.

For example, before the Euro the Italian Lira used to have a cross currency exchange rate with the dollar which was thousands of lire per dollar and that didn’t mean Italians in the 80s were incredibly poor: because for every dollar the average US worker received in their salary the average Italian worker got thousands of lire, all put together mean they got about 1/2 to 1/3 of a US salary rather that the 1/1000 that by your the exchange rate alone suffices “logic”.

By the way, that cross currency exchange rates are meaningless to compare incomes or costs without the actual incomes and prices in the local currency, is really, really, REALLY basic financial knowledge.

SCB,

You then use the second to convert the first into US Dollars so that you compare the Chinese salaries in USD to American salaries is USD

You don’t need to do this because you only need to look at the fact that those jobs are competed for to see that they are desirable.

Wage parity isn’t a meaningful discussion when discussing comparative advantage. Too many other factors come into play.

Bernie_Sandals,
@Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world avatar

Okay but you realize that any job would be competitive in situations of poverty right? That’s why you need the second data point.

SCB,

That’s specifically why comparative advantage is a good thing - lifting people out of poverty is a good thing.

Aceticon, (edited )

To fully measure Comparitive Advantages, you must include the differences in manpower costs, which brings us back to salaries (plus, since this is to compare manpower costs, you also need things like the employer-side tax costs such as social security payments), which then needs to be converted to a single currency using cross-currency exchange rates.

Further, every single monetary elements of calculating Comparitive Advantage which is in local currencies needs to go through those cross-currency exchange rates in order to be comparable.

There is no way you can calculate comparative advantage merelly with the single datapoint which is a cross-currency exchange rate because all that tells you is the relation between two units of measurement and says nothing about the actual quantities being measured.

As I said, this is incredibly basic financial stuff.

To give you a really basic non-financial example which hopefully will make you understand it:

  • Two farms produce milk, one in Britain and the other in The Netherlands. The farm in Britain measures milk by the pint. The one in The Netherlands measures milk by the liter.

What you wrote in your original post is equivalent to saying that “The farm in Britain produces more milk because 1 pint = 1.759754 liters”.

You don’t know anything about how many pints the British farm produces, or about how many liters the Dutch farm produces, yet you claimed the ratio between two measurement units is enough by let you draw conclusions about production numbers even though you used no prodution numbers.

If I was to bet I would say you’ve read some articles about how the exchange rate of the Yuan vs USD is kept artificially low to increase the competiviness of Chinese exports, didn’t quite understand how it works and still thought you knew enough and applied it were it wasn’t applicable and/or in the wrong way.

SCB,

No I just work in international business and know hy we outsource certain roles.

You keep pretending you know more about this, and you’re describing irrelevant things. I took econ/IB in college too, bud. Lots of people do.

Aceticon, (edited )

Since we’re pulling rank, I worked in Finance, specifically the Investment Banking and the Funds industries, some of which being very well know names (Fidelity, Deutsche Bank, even Lehman Brothers back when they still existed), always in the EMEA divisions which, unlike our US colleagues, deal with cross-currency trades all day every day (because EMEA actually means Europe Middle-East and Asia, so it’s a lot more than just trades on USD priced assets, for USD books, settled in USD).

So I’m quite familiar with exactly what cross-currency exchange rates mean, and it’s painfully obvious that you have absolutelly no clue what you’re talking about when you’re quoting a cross-currency exchange rate by itself and claiming that alone is proof of comparitive advantage.

SCB,

Lmao you either didn’t work in finance or can’t parse simple comments, which is why you no longer work in finance, but nothing I have said is incorrect whatsoever

Best of luck in your career move

Aceticon,

LMAO!

Keep digging.

SCB,

I do genuinely wish you luck, but I’ll amend it to “when you graduate” too

deaf_fish,

Chinese people deserve good jobs, not jump off of a building to kill yourself, but wait your the 4th person to do that this month so they installed a net jobs.

SCB,

I am questioning where I supported Chinese government policies here?

Because the initial concern was pay, and that’s due to not understanding economic factors. I don’t support Chinese labor regs at all.

In fact I said

“Companies that appease the CCP are the problem” which I also thought was a nice little pun, given the show being discussed.

jaybone,

How is that a pun?

SCB,

The show that Stewart walked out on is “The Problem with Jon Stewart”

isles,

I don’t support Chinese labor regs at all.

I wonder why labor is cheaper in China.

SCB,

Two big reasons

1: currency exchange rates

2: China is sill fundamentally agrarian and industrializing, and many workers are looking for (comparatively) higher pay

2ncs,

Chinese people also deserve to not be sent to internment camps.

SCB,

Yeah totally. Fuck the Chinese government.

InvertedParallax,

Yes, fuck the Chinese government.

And the corporations, both Chinese and American, that help support it.

SCB,

Depends on what that means imo. Global trade theoretically supports the Chinese government, because money is fungible, but is a net positive all around.

The Chinese will never stop clinging to autocracy without wealth of their own.

InvertedParallax,

The “Chinese” will never have wealth, ask Jack ma.

The ccp would burn China to the ground before releasing an ounce of their power and stolen wealth.

SCB,

That is not an excuse to stop trying to empower the Chinese to rise against their hellstate.

Capitalism broke the USSR and it will break the CCP.

InvertedParallax,

No, just like capitalism didn’t break the states that later formed the confederacy.

Even after they lost formal slavery they put horrible policies into effect like Jim crow and share cropping that allowed them to keep slavery in all but name, but were entirely compatible with capitalism.

Haiti understands this.

We need to stop enabling authoritarians, who do you think taught them how to build the great firewall, they bought literally all of their technology till now from us.

SCB,

No, just like capitalism didn’t break the states that later formed the confederacy.

It literally did though. That’s why they went to war - the writing was on the wall.

dogslayeggs,

Companies that appease the CCP are the problem, not companies that leverage exchange rates to better lives globally.

Companies in China ARE the CCP. Nothing is actually privately owned. Everything is owned by the government, so giving any money to a company in China is supporting the CCP.

SCB,

Lots of foreign companies have branches in China, including most global corps

dogslayeggs,

True, but that is completely irrelevant to the topic of whether it is ethical to use cheap Chinese labor. Those branches are not the ones employing cheap labor from the blue collar workers in China. Those are almost entirely white collar jobs, and many of them are in place specifically to work with the local companies who DO employ the blue collar laborers. The sweatshops aren’t OWNED by Nike or Gucci or Apple. They are contract facilities owned by a CCP-backed corporation.

SCB,

Sure but that level of contracting is not contributing to the CCP so much as to the Chinese people

It’s ethical to employ any sort of labor

Zehzin,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

It’s ethical to employ any sort of labor

did this mfer just imply slavery is ethical

SCB,

Slavery isn’t employment

the condition of having paid work. “a fall in the numbers in full-time employment”

Zehzin,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

You didn’t say employment. You said labor.

SCB,

I said to employ labor.

“Employ” is the verb form of the noun “employment.”

Hope this helps.

Zehzin, (edited )
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

Sure. The context makes it mean something else however. To employ also means to make use of something. You don’t “provide employment to” labor, that would make no sense.

Besides, is the alternative that you think any worker treatment is fine so long as it’s technically employment and not slavery? That’s a little fucked innit

SCB,

Rather than desperately trying to take me in bad faith, maybe read what I say.

If someone agrees to a certain rate of pay, they are not being exploited. There is nothing unethical about the hiring. I am obviously pro regulations like worker safety.

This is a really stupid discussion that should have been obvious if you weren’t trying to be a shit.

Zehzin,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

If someone agrees to a certain rate of pay, they are not being exploited

lmfao

oatscoop,

The Yuan is currently trading at 7.32 to 1 USD

$3 per hour.

SCB,

Ok?

stagen,
@stagen@feddit.dk avatar

I hope he moves to a different platform, one that’s not so beholden to the Chinese audience.

Uglyhead,
@Uglyhead@lemmy.world avatar

HBO already has John Oliver. Put the Jon Stewart show back to back with him.

jimbo,

they were basically saying, yes we know, but we believe in things and, as a big company with deep pockets that can therefore take risks, to prove it we’re hosting this show

lol, they never said that. You were just being naive. They were after the money of people who like Stewart.

Nobody,

According to The Hollywood Reporter, ahead of its decision to end The Problem, Apple approached Stewart directly and expressed its need for the host and his team to be “aligned” with the company’s views on topics discussed. Rather than falling in line when Apple threatened to cancel the show, Stewart reportedly decided to walk.

Good for Jon Stewart. He held the line even when the money people demanded that he compromise. Maybe a VP pic. I could see it.

variaatio,

He is successful enough, old enough and made enough money, that he can just retire. Threatening him is an empty threat. He is 60 and probably given his long career earned more than he can spend in rest of his life, unless he goes super yacht and private jet crazy.

The whole show was a come back from retirement essentially. A voluntary indulgence on his part. Surely lucrative indulgence, but indulgence still. Apple needed him, he didn’t need Apple.

Most of the crew probably will leave for other project with a letter of recommendation from John in their pocket.

willybe,

reduces my loyalty to the platform

Uh? Wow! Way to show them bastards. ;)

some_guy,

Not the OP, but Hey… I’m loyal to the makers of my shoes because they fit great and last. I’m loyal to my preferred food brands because they taste great and have consistent quality. I’m loyal to a book publisher because their tech books are comprehensive.

Loyalty to a brand is not submission. It means you pick the brand over others due to positive past experiences. Don’t imply that someone is a sheep for liking a company’s products; you didn’t say it, but it’s clear that you think less of the OP for using that word.

willybe,

I can completely respect your perspective. Yes I was being short when I made this comment, no offense to the op was intended.

To patronize a service because its good does not imply loyalty.

Apple has a long history of being manipulative and exploitative of their customers. Being loyal to them (from my perspective) is like being loyal to an abusive person. You obey their commands not because of respect, but because you feel an emotional bond to them.

lemmesay,
@lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

another reminder that apple’s “privacy, that’s iPhone” is a marketing gimmick. they profit from surveillance and censorship in China^1^. elsewhere, this catchphrase has allowed them to suck Facebook’s as revenue into their growing ad business, surpassing even tiktok in terms of ad revenue^2^.

they’ll happily do pink washing, but will try everything do dilute labour rights^3^.

so, apple is just your average big tech. nothing exceptional about them(except for them suing regular people to oblivion^4^).

in case of hitting a paywall, either disable JavaScript, or use bypass paywalls clean.
1: nytimes.com/…/apple-china-censorship-data.html
2: finshots.in/…/apple-is-an-advertising-giant-almos…
3: a simple search result would lead you to many such cases: duckduckgo.com/?q=apple+labour+rights&ia=web
4: www.nytimes.com/2022/03/…/apple-trademarks.html

JasSmith,

They were so close to implementing on-device scanning last year it’s scary. The number of people who supported it because Apple promised to only use it for child sexual exploitation material really shocked me. “Think of the children” really does have a way of making people’s brains short circuit.

some_guy,

It was a lot longer ago, like 2.5 to 3 years ago, but that’s pedantic.

My own father was shocked that they’d do that (his death is how I know the timeline; no sympathy required, I’ve dealt with it, it happens). He really respected them, primarily through my respect of them and excitedness about their tech. He was blown away that they’d even consider such a thing. He just couldn’t calculate how such a misstep could happen. I can, but what a mistake that was.

I’ve seen an argument that this could have been a calculated risk to prevent attacks when they enabled increased encryption. I don’t think it was that, even if that was the resulting effect. They are too protective of their brand to deliberately take a hit.

ramenshaman,

Looks like I’m going to continue not watching Apple TV for the foreseeable future.

MissJinx,
@MissJinx@lemmy.world avatar

I have many subscriptions that I pay for, netflix (for now), HBO, prime… but Apple is not one of them. I just Sail the seas when I want to watch Severance lol

IvanOverdrive,

Severance is one of the most original shows I have ever seen. The torrent must flow

ramenshaman,

Ahoy, matey

kaffiene,

Yeah. Apple are the Machine

Nintendo,

Apple users: buys iPhone for privacy

Apple: all your data belongs to me now

nephs,

“Reports are not clear, but it’s probably China’s fault.” 🙄

uberkalden,

Sounds more like apple not wanting to jeopardize their relationship with china

timbuck2themoon,

Apple tv sucks anyway. I’d like to remind people that it’s near the end of the mls season and they still have no android mobile app. They actively piss on anyone not totally in line with their ecosystem, etc.

IHaveTwoCows,

I hate that every mofo wants to send me a goddamn video from their iPhone and they just do NOT understand that it doesnt work. You cannot make them grasp.

tilgare,

For what it’s worth, they do have an Android TV app.

bufordt,
@bufordt@sh.itjust.works avatar

Which makes the lack of an android app all the more shitty. They have one already but refuse to make it available if the device isn’t connected to a TV.

Then you get into the actual layout of the program. Spoilers are a huge issue. I can’t watch a game later without having the game ruined partially. Sure you can switch off scores, but you still have to scroll through game highlights to get to the full match replay.

HughJanus,

Insert South Park Disney Mickey Mouse China meme

Big props to John for walking away.

AdamHenry,

How did Apple not see this coming up as future conflict with it’s talent. Its almost like they didn’t watch the fucking show, or the causes he devoted himself to after retiring. It’s a rare thing I know, but not everyone can be bought. His entire platform that he’s built up over the years, would have collapsed if he had pulled a John Cena.

NuXCOM_90Percent,

Stewart was “edgy” in the 00s but is largely a safe bet these days. More Kimmel than Oliver.

China was always a danger but also seems like the kind of thing that can be “this is the one topic you aren’t allowed to talk about” and nobody would ever really notice.

The real issue is AI. You can’t NOT talk a bout AI at this point and that is where even liberal leaning centrists tend to have very vocal takes about the implications on labor and media.

AdamHenry,

I will admit I really haven’t considered the implications of AI being a real threat. I am aware that it is a potential tool to cut labor costs, but havie not gone further into the rabbit hole.

AdamHenry,

I also disagree with the Kimmel comparison, as his facade as a nice guy became transparent as his show progressed. I am not a Stewart fanboy in any sense, and while he may have lost some edge due to maturity, he has stayed true to what he thinks is the right thing.

NuXCOM_90Percent,

I am not talking about whether you like them as a person or want to go to their birthday party.

What I mean is that Kimmel will go hard on a “safe” topic like trump but is not going to be causing controversy. That is more or less where Stewart has been since The Daily Show (honestly, kind of during it too).

Whereas people like John Oliver are very much the kind of people you hire knowing that the ratings will be worth the controversy.

Serinus,

but is not going to be causing controversy.

What is this thread about?

r3df0x,

In the early 2000s, the conservatives were The Man.

Progressive ideology from even 2012 has largely trickled into conservatism as it is now. Modern “progressives” are now going mask off as neoliberal uniparty fascists. It’s why the Democrats and uniparty Republicans both support war while conservatives are opposing it. 40 years ago Republicans fully supported proxy wars with Russia.

OberonSwanson,

Canceling Apple TV over this, knew they were spineless, but this is pathetic since it’s one of the few shows I watch on it. Growing really tired of all these service subscriptions as it is.

AdamHenry,

I had Netflix and then cancelled it as a cost saving measure during COVID. I also have Prime which I never even bother with, because of it’s fucking format. I wound up with an early sub to YouTube because I got completely enthralled with Time Team. I found that it pretty much has everything I want to watch. I never thought that would’ve happened because I initially considered YT a lower tier service.

littlecolt,

Same. This is my 3rd to last subscription. The ones left standing are Spotify and Shonen Jump. Because they still deliver what they are supposed to without bullshit.

Mausbiber,

Spotify suggests new artists to you based on who pays them the most. Their business model is expanding into you being the product.

littlecolt,

I’ll deal with it once it starts affecting my ability to listen to what I want when I want.

Phegan,

deleted_by_author

    •
    Riven,
    @Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Check out xmanagerapp dot Com. Solid cracked premium Spotify client.

    Phegan,

    Thank you!!

    SaltySalamander,
    SaltySalamander avatar

    even sailing the seas isn’t as viable anymore

    This is still perfectly viable.

    Phegan,

    I’ve had issues finding a reliable private tracker

    ensignrick,

    Spotify is nearing the cut point for me. Subbed since 2011. The UI is getting worse…

    littlecolt,

    I mostly listen in my car. As long as the UI has search and playlists I can make, and those play with no issue, it’s doing what I need. Play button, pause button, etc… I don’t need much else.

    IHaveTwoCows,

    We need to learn to go outside at night again.

    Buffalox,

    We are in a dystopian future, where cooperate interests trump reporting.

    Independence or the free media does not exist anymore, they are all governed by the economic interests of the 1%. Democracy is hereby dead, and nobody is fighting to save it anymore.

    Grayox,
    @Grayox@lemmy.ml avatar

    Democracy offically died in America the day Citizens United was approved by the Supreme Court.

    MooseBoys,

    Say it with me everyone - CORPORATIONS ARE NOT PEOPLE

    AlexisFR,
    @AlexisFR@jlai.lu avatar

    Nice post.

    JustZ,

    Stewart for President.

    calypsopub,

    For real.

    AngryCommieKender,

    Never gonna happen, unfortunately. He’s already said he won’t run for office, because he feels he does more useful work from outside the system, asking the uncomfortable questions that need asking, until he gets an answer.

    Don’t get me wrong. I’d vote for Stewart for any office. I just know enough about the man to know that he refuses to run. He gets asked pretty regularly about it.

    Peaty,

    POTUS shouldn’t be an entry level job.

    Litany,
    @Litany@lemmy.world avatar

    POTUS should be a job filled by people with regular careers who serve their term, then return to their careers afterwards, if they don’t wish to retire.

    A POTUS who is a farmer will have unique insight on how to improve the lives of farmers. Then they go back to being a farmer too. Rinse and repeat for every other job. Doctor, college professor, cybersecurity professional, engineer, astronaut, etc, etc, etc.

    Instead we just get career politician after career politician, usually with a background in law, or maybe finance.

    There should be term limit reforms that also restrict ex-office holders from continuing careers as lobbyists* and other Capitol Hill creatures. Go back to your old career after holding office, or retire.

    Peaty,

    Sorry to burst your bubble but POTUS is a management position. You oversee millions of jobs as the head of the Executive branch.

    It is a job that the vast majority do not have the skills or temperament to manage with any degree of competence. The plantation owner who oversaw the hundreds of jobs/slaves of the past might have been able to be the head of a smaller and weaker government but the modern farmer isn’t going to have skills that transfer to POTUS.

    The reason why it’s finance, politicians, and lawyers that end up in the job is those are the fields whose skills actually do transfer.

    POTUS isn’t an entry level job. You should have governmental experience and a history of managing large organizations.

    butsbutts,

    i would totally help crowdfund a jon stewart show

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