I love checking people’s post history on topics like this. You find a lot of tankies who will support anything China and Russia do and say and they hate when you expose them.
The church’s influence and power has already increased far too much since Gorbachev illegally dissolutioned the USSR.
You’re literally quoting a comment where I rightfully disapprove of what the then Russian leaders and traitors did, ignoring their own laws at that.
Gorbachev and his western capitalist friends’ illegal dissolution of the USSR and forced change to capitalism was opposed by over 90% of the population, and was a disaster that the former Soviet states still haven’t fully recovered from 33 years later.
It resulted in wealth being transferred from the working class to the capitalists (which was the entire point of course).
Basically, everything you’d expect to happen from a Socialist union being forced to become capitalist, happened.
Not to mention the global impact of post-Soviet states, now controlled by capitalists, no longer wanting to oppose imperialism on the world stage. If the USSR wasn’t illegally dissolutioned, they would continue to fund Vietnam, the NATO invasion of Libya would be thwarted, the numerous US-backed coups in Africa would be defended against, and the ongoing genocide in Palestine would be strongly opposed, as the USSR was already the largest funder of Palestine’s PFLP.
And of course, as I mentioned in the comment you quoted, the christfascists and nationalists would have been kept in check like they were in the USSR.
tankies
Meaningless term; it’s “woke” but used against communists and scientific socialists instead of socially progressive libs. Nice way to shut down discussion about economic inequality like how chuds use “woke” to shut down those for social inequality. Sounds cool tho
and they hate when you expose them.
“Lemmy Tankie EXPOSED (Gone Wrong)” lmao
No I don’t mind you asking about stuff you’re confused about so long as you do it in good faith, which this might not be ig.
Your anti-USSR bias comes from the decades of anti-communist and red scare propaganda in the imperial core.
Also, do you not agree with my statement that the christfascist church’s influence has increased far too much because of the illegal dissolution of the USSR? I’d think anyone with common sense would support keeping the right wingers and their regressive ideologies in check.
Hey, remember when the USSR collapsed and we all laughed because it sucked and you were embarrassed because I pointed out you moderate Anime Midriffs? Those were good times.
Sounds like you need to move on? This dude said nothing about “the illegal dissolution of the USSR” and you mention it like 3 times in your paragraphs? Also I don’t think the Christ fascist church influence increased because of the USSR breakup? Evangelialism was on the rise way before the collapse and I don’t think they’re really related. You should focus on more bigger issues than “the illegal dissolution of the USSR” that happened 30 years ago and not much can be done about it (unless you think the current state of Russia is saving it by invading Ukraine)
They’ll only read the truth: that you moderate Anime Midriffs and were embarrassed when I pointed it out.
You can try to hide it. You can lie to the people, but you can’t lie to yourself and me. We share a special bond. We’re linked. And your lemmynsfw alt account has the exact same name and pfp as this one.
Go, be free and moderate your cartoon bellybuttons. It’s a healthier hobby than spreading Russian and Chinese propaganda. Or maybe you can combine them. Like, pictures of anime Putin lifting his shirt. I bet an AI could make that for you.
It’s almost like there’s some sort of worldwide conspiracy to provide complete support for a Jewsish state no matter the cost, completely ignoring riots and public opinion and the lie that is democracy.
Hey, would you like to vote for Biden so he can support Israel or for Trump so he can take his turn in supporting it.
It’s like the election system - that is flawed to only allow 2 parties - is made like it is so someone can control exactly who has the ability to get elected.
Zionism is conveniently almost the only thing the 2 parties can agree on, completely disregarding EXTREMELY OBVIOUS violations of everything you could think of, regularly committed by Israel.
Laugh at me for promoting “Jews control the world through the US” all you want but do you have other logical explanations?
Edit: for future readers, I meant Zionist Jews. This took too long to get edited because of a soft-ban.
We appreciate the position expressed by the People’s Republic of China, during the public hearings held by the International Court of Justice, on the legal consequences of the occupation policies in the Palestinian Territory, and its affirmation of the legality of the occupied peoples’ pursuit of self-determination, by various means, including armed resistance, and the necessity not to confuse terrorism with And the armed struggle practiced by the Palestinian people against the Zionist occupation.
We also value the positions of the countries participating in the sessions, which confirmed the widespread violations of international law practiced by the terrorist occupation entity against the Palestinian people and their occupied land, including massacres and genocide in the Gaza Strip, violations, killing, and expansion of settlement in the West Bank and Jerusalem, and work to bring about demographic changes in the Palestinian land. It aims to Judaize her and tamper with her identity.
The terrorist occupation government’s boycott of the court sessions confirms once again its disregard for international institutions, and its policy of turning its back on international resolutions and commitments, which requires a clear position from the international community to end the rogue Zionist occupation, and to stop all its violations and crimes against our Palestinian people.
Not sure I understand? I’m assuming you’re referencing that I live in the US and we fund Israel, so yeah, I agree. I just found it kind’ve odd that that other guy didn’t realize multiple countries can be evil at the same time.
I clearly wouldn’t want to listen to the US governments position on Israel, why should China be any different?
Edit: ah, nice edit. Kinda surprised they allow tankies here.
Nonsense; you don’t actually believe in this “let he who is without sin cast the first stone” attitude towards international politics. I don’t believe for one solitary second that your out there whining about “virtue signalling” on any story where a nation criticises Russia, or North Korea, or China for that matter. We all know you reserve it solely for enemies of the West.
I love that the generic lib response to this is to engage in Whataboutism regarding Tibet, Xinjiang, and Taiwan. If you see someone doing this, remember to ask them how many countries recognize Palestine as a state versus any of those other places.
Also its beyond meaningless when you consider that at most idk 3% of the population of Xinjiang and 1% in Tibet is considering themselves to be occupied by China and are remotely likely to participate or aid in an armed struggle against the CPC, even at the best possible conditions
Like sure, Tibetians have a right to engage in an armed anti-colonial struggle or kickstart an indeginous liberation movement ok. You probably couldnt even fill an NBA stadium with those willing so what does that leave their lib free Tibet dreams. The CIA was trying to recruit and instigate an anti-chinese sessesionist movement last century and they gave up because they couldnt find enough willing Tibetians to get the project off the ground. And they had a budget of dozens and dozens of millions to pay off poor ass Tibetians and they still couldnt find any fertile sessesionist sentiment. And thats on record
Really weird that libs continue to hang into any sentiment regarding Tibet when the Dalai Lama literally just tried to get a child to suck on his tongue in public just last year.
the maoist uprising against the landlords was the largest and most comprehensive proletarian revolution in history, and led to almost totally-equal redistribution of land among the peasantry
I know that your source is the Black Book of Communism, because if it wasn’t, you would have provided it, rather than doing this “my girlfriend lives in Canada” routine you’re doing.
Uyghurs would have a right to armed resistance if they were being occupied, but—aside from the CIA-backed terrorists in the 2010s who went on sprees of knifing & bombing & running people over—the Uyghurs don’t think they are being occupied.
The US’s “Uyghur genocide” disinformation campaign has already been debunked several times over, meanwhile it’s providing material support for a real one in Palestine as we speak, and Guantanamo Bay and other black sites are still in operation.
We see here for example the evolution of public opinion in regards to China. In 2019, the ‘Uyghur genocide’ was broken by the media (Buzzfeed, of all outlets). In this story, we saw the machine I described up until now move in real time. Suddenly, newspapers, TV, websites were all flooded with stories about the ‘genocide’, all day, every day. People whom we’d never heard of before were brought in as experts — Adrian Zenz, to name just one; a man who does not even speak a word of Chinese.
Organizations were suddenly becoming very active and important. The World Uyghur Congress, a very serious-sounding NGO, is actually an NED Front operating out of Germany […]. From their official website, they declare themselves to be the sole legitimate representative of all Uyghurs — presumably not having asked Uyghurs in Xinjiang what they thought about that.
The WUC also has ties to the Grey Wolves, a fascist paramilitary group in Turkey, through the father of their founder, Isa Yusuf Alptekin.
Documents came out from NGOs to further legitimize the media reporting. This is how a report from the very professional-sounding China Human Rights Defenders (CHRD) came to exist. They claimed ‘up to 1.3 million’ Uyghurs were imprisoned in camps. What they didn’t say was how they got this number: they interviewed a total of 10 people from rural Xinjiang and asked them to estimate how many people might have been taken away. They then extrapolated the guesstimates they got and arrived at the 1.3 million figure.
Sanctions were enacted against China — Xinjiang cotton for example had trouble finding buyers after Western companies were pressured into boycotting it. Instead of helping fight against the purported genocide, this act actually made life more difficult for the people of Xinjiang who depend on this trade for their livelihood (as we all do depend on our skills to make a livelihood).
Any attempt China made to defend itself was met with more suspicion. They invited a UN delegation which was blocked by the US. The delegation eventually made it there, but three years later. The Arab League also visited Xinjiang and actually commended China on their policies — aimed at reducing terrorism through education and social integration, not through bombing like we tend to do in the West.
I’m sure the West is exaggerating the war-crimes China is committing, but Uyghurs were and are still most definitely oppressed
Even if the CIA backs a group, for example the Taliban, there is a root issue of oppression which inspires those resistance groups to take those CIA arms.
In the case of the Taliban it first was the Russians (and later on the Americans).
Even if the CIA backs a group, for example the Taliban, there is a root issue of oppression which inspires those resistance groups to take those CIA arms.
That can and does happen. But what also can and does happen is the CIA finds people willing to stir up shit just for the money and the opportunity to seize power.
I thought China was on team Israel. Or maybe I’m confused because they’re helping Russia, and Russia is on team Israel? International politics is weird sometimes.
For decades China’s policy has been team territorial integrity (ie borders were set in 1948, and people shouldn’t talk about them). Previously this meant supporting the 1967 borders. Their current position is still consistent with this (Israel still occupies the west bank), and has the added bonus of improving relations in the region which China has already invested a good deal in (see belt and road initiative)
Honestly this is one of the more straightforward cases of geopolitics, shit like the Nigerian Civil war however…
Ok sure. But attacking and killing civilians in their homes, in the streets and in festivals isn’t exactly what I would call resisting oppression.
Israël is a fascist, ethno-theocratic apartheid state that lost all it’s legitimacy with the current genocide they are perpetuating. But Hamas is a terrorist organization that needs to go. They are in no way helping nor represent Palestiniens in Gaza.
There is no such as a “civilian” in an occupying colony. Half the population in “israel” are military conscripts, and most of the other half are fascists and settlers just the same; there are very few people in the colony actually plotting/fighting against the state.
By your logic, the Viet Cong, which used the same tactics (attacking villages, taking hostages, using tunnels and guerilla warfare) and had the same goals (driving out foreign occupiers and reuniting their country) as Hamas, and the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, which (regardless of its intentions and goals) resulted in the deaths of thousands of Jews at the hands of the nazis similar to how Palestinians are being killed by “israel” now after the Oct 7 assault, were “terrorists” (whatever that even means).
Hamas is currently the largest Palestinian armed resistance group (and was even directly elected by the people of Gaza at that) and deserves everyone’s support.
Interesting take as far as China is concerned, not that I disagree. I wonder how their arguments for Palestine don’t conflict with their stance on Taiwan or even Tibet, or their current actions against the Uyghurlar. I suppose it’s more geopolitical posturing against “the West” more than an actual statement of ideology, but there might be nuance.
They're not saying it is invalid, they are wondering how long it will take for China to immediately flip on this once it's about their own interests, because they constantly talk out of both sides of their mouth on this sort of thing.
So does the US. They are both imperialist nations with opposing interests. It’s not worth pointing out unless you are acknowledging how they both do it.
Each is in the best position to lay out valid criticisms of the other. You just have to use media literacy to be able to discern valid points from propaganda.
No shit, they were discussing the possible geopolitical implications, not saying China is uniquely duplicitous. Please use your media literacy to not insert words into people's mouths.
this is pattently false, and this statement right here is why the PRC is able to run circles around the west, while also publishing 5 year plans on exactly what they are going to do and how they are going to do it. The west just pretends they are lieing
The problem with your comparison with Taiwan is Taiwan is an island that is part of China but is currently controlled by an occupying force. This is agreed upon by almost all nations except for 12, the US also agrees on this btw.
What the west is saying is that regardless of this, China does not have the right to an armed resistance against Taiwan even though they consider it part of China. They even agreed to arm Taiwan to prevent this attack from happening.
So in terms of their statement on Palestine, this is actually consistent. The Palestinians have a right to kick out their occupiers, much like China has the right to kick out Taiwan’s occupiers.
You view it differently, but as I stated before almost all members of the UN agree Taiwan is part of China.
*Edit: On a personal level I don’t actually agree with this. I don’t want an invasion of Taiwan. I’m merely pointing out the “gotcha” you tried to set up doesn’t actually make sense. Instead it’s actually quite consistent with China’s position on Taiwan.
*Edit 2: This is also why China seems petty and runs around making sure all nations that trade with China state there’s only one China. That’s what the whole Lithuania thing was about. China is stating if the majority of the UN believes in a 2 party solution, then the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves. Since the majority of UN believes in a 1 party solution for Taiwan, then it’s the Taiwanese who are the occupiers and China has a right to defend itself.
*Edit 3: Ironically, the same cannot be said for China’s consistency on the SCS. If you wanted a “gotcha” then China’s claim to the SCS is absurd. But that said, they never said it was OK for them to be in an armed conflict over that. So I guess take that how you will.
I talked about that. This is how China is keeping the messaging consistent. Again, according to most states in the UN, they want a 2 state solution for Palestine. That’s why China’s pushing an armed resistance solution for the Palestinians.
Also, according to most states in the UN, they agree upon a 1 state solution for China and Taiwan. That’s why China’s pushing for an armed resistance solution against the Taiwanese occupiers.
It doesn’t matter what states say internally or want internally. The whole point is consistency of message from the Chinese. Which is armed resistance is acceptable for occupations. Thus, no “oh what if it turned around on China?” It’s consistent messaging, there’s no turning around.
NOW what you’re arguing is that the people don’t feel that way. Which means the west isn’t following it’s own “rule of law”. The problem with your argument is it makes clear that China is the one agreeing and following the UN rulings and the west is bending the “rules of law”. This is also why China cares so much about what they’re “hearing” as you stated and doesn’t really care about what they say internally. Which seems petty to you, but means China is actually obeying rule of law and the west is not.
Well tell that to your government. They are not saying that. And until most of the UN agrees with that, Taiwan can’t be considered a country.
In fact, as a Taiwanese person, I’d prefer it if people like yourself didn’t just say platitudes like Taiwan is a country and then do literally nothing in your votes to make that happen. You disappoint me.
I mean, Jewish people originally heralded from around the eastern Mediterranean, middle east? That would make them historically middle eastern rather than western. Or are we strictly talking about western powers giving the Jewish people a ‘homeland’ after the second world war and the holocaust?
Let’s set aside the multiple issues with “I think one of my distant ancestors lived here 2000 years ago, or maybe just other members of my religious group, therefore I have a right to live here today” and assume that yes, that sort of historical/ancestral claim gives comtemporary Jewish people a right to live in Palestine. Even in the most generous light imaginable, it would not give them a right to build an ethnostate by committing genocide on the current inhabitants. Israel is so far past anything that could be reasonably granted from ancient Jews living in Palestine that there is no possible defense along those lines.
Or are we strictly talking about western powers giving the Jewish people a ‘homeland’ after the second world war and the holocaust?
Yes, that’s what people mean when they refer to Israel as a colony of Europe/the U.S.
The giant gaping hole in calling Israel a “western colony” is that it has no homeland. It’s not a British colony, or a French colony, or a colony of any other country. If Israel as a country stops existing, the vast majority of its citizens don’t have citizenship in any other country and have literally nowhere else to go. Therefore it’s not a colony and it’s not colonialism, it’s an independent country.
Sure I was born in Britain with British citizenship, but I identify as Middle Eastern so I should be granted somebody else’s land where they are currently living.
These people should be blasted into fucking space if they need a homeland so badly. Zionism cannot even exist without the antisemitic belief in a fifth column. Are Jews an alien element in Western society, or do they belong to the societies in which they were born?
I will tell you this: Middle Eastern people do not eat schnitzel.
That’s not exactly how it happened, the majority of the land where “somebody else was currently living” was unused swamp/desert, and/or was sold by previous land owners to Zionists before Israel was created.
I won’t pretend every single bit was 100% legit, but you don’t pretend that every single bit was 100% stolen.
You know that many Israelis did come from anglosphere or now-EU states, right? It’s not like it’s just a new social formation of people who already lived in the region.
When the British expelled criminals to Australia they couldn’t return home. Was Australia not a colony? A ton of European immigrants to the American colonies intended their journeys to be one-way trips, and were functionally barred from returning by cost. Does that mean there were no colonies in the Americas?
Besides, throughout history you almost never see settlers leaving en masse when colonial administrations end. Sure, some recent arrivees may turn around, and some administrators who moved there mostly to work in the colonial government may leave, but you really never see the main body of settlers leave. You didn’t even have this in South Africa. They simply have to live under a government where they can’t shoot the locals with impunity.
That doesn’t really address the point though… Israel is independent, and was so from the start. It’s not bound to any other western country’s rule, which is the first requirement for being a colony.
the vast majority of its citizens don’t have citizenship in any other country and have literally nowhere else to go. Therefore it’s not a colony
It directly refutes this.
If you’re leaning on Israel being formally independent, they’re about as independent from the West (particularly the U.S.) as a college freshman getting their tuition paid by Mom and Dad. No one here is talking about Israel being independent on paper, we’re talking about how it interacts with other countries in reality.
My point is that Israel is not a colony and has a right to exist.
I am not excusing what is being done to Palestinians. I strive for peace, and Israel is showing no signs of it anymore, though it absolutely did just a few decades ago. But no one is saying all of Russia doesn’t have a right to exist because it attacked Ukraine. No one is saying USA or Canada don’t have a right to exist because of how they historically treated and are still treating native Americans. And no one should be saying that Israel doesn’t have a right to exist.
Coexistence is the only solution. It seems impossible today, but it’s the only possible solution that could possibly work. Anything else is even more detached from reality.
“No country is fully independent” says nothing about whether Israel is properly classified as a colony. It’s a platitude.
a right to exist
Another platitude. What do you mean by this? Israel’s current actions are indefensible. Many of its past actions are indefensible. Its policy of neither recognizing a Palestinian state nor granting equal citizenship to Palestinians is indefensible. It must either fundamentally change or be replaced by a government worth supporting, like South Africa before it.
It certainly does not have a right to continue existing in its current form, no more than Nazi Germany did.
The absolute minimum Isreal would have to do to even be said to be interested in peace - let alone striving for it - is to either recognise Palestine as a sovereign country and treat it as such, or to recognise Palestinians as citizens of Isreal. So long as they keep holding them in this limbo, in egregious violation of international law, Isreal has zero interest in peace.
You are absolutely right, it doesn’t give them a right to wage war on the Palestine people. Although Israel can and should ‘defend’ itself, it has gone way too far, killing thousands of innocents for no apparent gain. It is a disgusting over use of force and should quite rightly be condemned.
I would argue however that Israel isn’t a colony of Europe or the US, that would imply control over the country and as has been quite apparent, Israel is making it’s own decisions and will happily shrug off any criticism from the Western powers. Using words like colony just derails the narrative you want to imply. It is a country created after the second world war (rightly or wrongly) and the horrors of the Holocaust. Does that excuse Israel now? No, absolutely not. If anything I should think they should know better.
Israel needs regime change and a willingness to work with those that surround them and the same goes for Hamas. Religion, ideology, ethnicity, it’s all an excuse so easily used to justify violence and unfortunately I don’t ever see it changing.
Israel is making it’s own decisions and will happily shrug off any criticism from the Western powers
There has been zero sincere criticism from the West. If you circumvent Congress to give Israel more money and openly state you are unconditionally supporting it, I don’t buy it if you leak a story about being furious with them behind closed doors. You shouldn’t, either.
You seem to be ignoring that the original idea for a jewish state came from jews living and discriminated in the Ottoman empire. They got their piece of land through the UN and the response from the local muslims was “no biggie, we’ll just genocide them then”. So there’s why people caring about the issue for a bit longer get that crazy idea that iT’s CoMpLiCaTeD
I declare all of Sweden a homeland for the oppressed Stalinists (I have an incredibly remote connection to Norse settlers along with almost everyone else in my country)
It’s a project overwhelmingly lead by western states that has resulted in a huge importing of people who were born and raised in western states pretending they are indigenous to the region. If not for the west, Israel would neither have the resources to maintain its colonial project nor the population needed for occupying Palestine.
Apparently the mods deleted my comment because they didn’t like me pointing out that this guy’s entire post history is defending Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and China’s genocide of Uyghur Muslims, even though his entire post history is defending Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and China’s genocide of Uyghur Muslims.
love how that guy who climbed the fence and got shot by his own guys on the walk back wasn’t considered a terrorist by the media despite 1) being a lone wolf and 2) not operating as part of an authorised military action. I suppose that latter point is because all Israeli’s take part in an authorised military action as an occupying force every second of every day.
Just for everyone else’s reference, this guy’s entire post history outside of this thread is defending Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and China’s treatment of Muslims.
Just for the record, this poster is from Zionist instance Lemmyworld, loves Marvel US military propaganda, hates Russia and pretends to love Uyghurs while being okay with Palestine genocide.
It’s meant to relate the two, which is reasonable since both have the goal of getting Jewish people out of Europe, zionists were supported by antisemites, and there are lots of actual straight up nazis in the “israeli” military.
I do not support the current actions of the Israeli government but it is wildely disingenuous to believe that the “only terrorists here” are the Israeli. The Hamas are also terrorists.
They attacked, killed, beat, and in all likelyhood tortured and raped unarmed civilians. They have previously publically stated that their goal is to exterminate all Jews. They are terrorists with genocidal goals.
I don’t support the current actions of the Israeli government in Palestine, but every time I see thee posts they are very one sided. Amidst those who oppose Israel and also oppose violence and genocide from both sides, often hide pure anti-semites who are using this opportunity to push for the extermination of all Jews. Neither that nor the current actions of Israel are acceptable.
I can’t believe this comment sating that the “only” terrorists are the Israeli has gotten so many upvotes.
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