PugJesus

@PugJesus@lemmy.world

Alt of PugJesus for ensuring Fediverse compatibility and shit

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PugJesus,

They remember, and they want it back. They’re fascists who are too cowardly to claim the label - which is impressive, as fascists are generally pretty cowardly to begin with.

PugJesus,

Then your choices are reduced to “Allow politicians to know that your ‘demands’ mean nothing because they have no consequences” or “Let the fascist win”.

By the way, really loving the “LOL let’s just wing it” attitude towards the potential murder of millions more people. Makes me feel real warm and fuzzy inside to know that the pro-minority attitude of the online left isn’t even deep enough to be performative.

PugJesus,

Maybe you should advocate that Biden not refuse that demand.

It would be great if Biden changed his view. I hope that the changing views of the American electorate on Israel and the protests relevant to that change pressure him into doing so.

But when you say “Well, it’s actually completely okay if you decide that allowing fascism is the better choice if Biden doesn’t change his mind😊”, what you’re saying is “I don’t give a fuck how many Palestinians OR American minorities die, and I don’t care if I ever get a say in governance again.”

PugJesus,

You’re eating genocide either way, unless you have a fucking miracle candidate up your sleeve you’ve been hiding 'til now. The difference is, you’ve chosen the “All Trump Can Eat” genocide buffet.

PugJesus,

The only disagreement I have is that the ones who don’t get statues made of them are sonsofbitches too. We just don’t remember them.

PugJesus,

Sorry that I want to minimize the number of Palestinians who die, while you would prefer to maximize the number.

PugJesus,

“The BIDEN supporter is the TRUMP supporter!”

Yes, picking the one of the two realistic candidates means I actually support the OTHER realistic (but much more vile) candidate. You caught me.

PugJesus,

You refuse to take your criticism to Biden

Oh yes, just the other day I was offered a trip to the White House to discuss my policy positions with Biden, and I stood up on my one good leg, and firmly said “NO! I will NOT go and take my criticism to BIDEN HIMSELF! If he wants to hear my criticism of him, he can log into Lemmy like everyone else!”

and expect voters to just accept genocide.

No, actually, I expect voters to vote against “more genocide”, something that seems extremely controversial to people who want MORE genocide, for reasons that Definitely Make Sense From A Left-Wing Perspective. I guess more dead minorities is… left praxis…?

PugJesus,

Biden isn’t a realistic candidate if he doesn’t shift on Palestine.

How convenient, Biden isn’t a realistic candidate if he doesn’t shift his position on YOUR issue of choice. Meanwhile, most of the American electorate puts foreign policy near the bottom of their list of concerns.

He’s been polling below Trump for over a year. He suffers a 12 point polling error spread.

Oh, and he’ll gain 12 points from swapping positions on Palestine?

PugJesus,

Voters aren’t going to move their position on this.

Oh, voters aren’t going to change from desiring more genocide? Makes sense, considering how stubborn you are on insisting that as many minorities be killed as possible.

PugJesus,

You’ve catalyzed a huge cohort of people against your position and approach. Do you see how many people are becoming activated and joining the conversation just to strike you down?

Oh damn, you’ve got me, let me check the ratios along these comments

Still waiting for you to tell me how Palestine will win Biden 12 percentage points, in your view.

PugJesus,

I mean you are the one arguing in favor of genocide bro, not me.

Oh, okay, so now you agree that it is necessary that Biden is elected, and that playing games with “It’s actually completely okay that you’re voting third-party, I’m so proud of you 😊” games is actually dumb as shit. Glad we’re in agreement now, shame it took you so long to come around.

You are the one arguing that we shouldn’t bring our criticisms forwards

When did I say that? Feel free to quote me.

By supporting a politician with bad policies, you are setting them up to lose the election. He can’t win if he continues supporting this genocide. He has to shift his position, and the only leverage we have right now is to withhold our support.

Ah, yes, the only way we can ensure Biden WINS the election is by doing everything we can to ensure Biden LOSES the election. Fucking brilliant. Next we’ll play chicken on the railroad tracks.

PugJesus,

So if I present to you evidence that voting uncommitted in the primary isn’t evidence of intent to withhold their vote in the general, you’ll withdraw your position?

Still waiting for you to tell me how he’s going to gain 12 percentage points from an issue that is one of the lowest rated on voter’s important issues.

PugJesus,

ts just incredibly clear that you actually don’t care about Biden winning this election at this point.

If you did, you would withhold your support

I couldn’t make it up if I tried.

PugJesus,

If ‘indefinitely’ is not required, then liberal democracy has a recipe against fascism which has worked for at least the past 80 years; as long as fascism has been around, and the question becomes self-defeating.

If you think the Stalinist and Maoist regimes were different from fascism in anything other than the coat of red paint, I can’t help you. “The People’s Genocide” is not actually better than “Genocide”, believe it or not.

PugJesus,

I still legitimately have flashbacks to election night in 2016. Fuck. It’s insane that it’s almost a decade ago. I can remember it like it just happened.

PugJesus,

Ignoring the extended period of a united front breaking apart because the leader of the KPD was a Soviet puppet isn’t exactly “an issue in 1919 wasn’t mended 😔”

PugJesus,

I have no particular dog in this fight; I’m out of my depth now in terms of what happened and who was at fault. My point is, those bitter divisions and arguments and the justifications for them that you’re talking about – however you want to allocate blame for them between the SDP and KPD – didn’t do either of them a lick of good when the NSDAP started kicking down doors and shooting them both in the back of the head, and that’s relevant to the upcoming US election.

No, it didn’t. Which is why I’m all-in on making sure that the NSDAP doesn’t win this election.

PugJesus,

Buddy, our country is not so great on the world stage. You honestly think we can sink lower?

Oh, absolutely.

PugJesus,

Oh, I’m talking about the world stage too. The US remains popular in much of Subsaharan Africa and East Asia (minus China and NK, natch), and moderately popular in Asia outside of MENA, with mixed views in Latin America. Our popularity dropped in all but three countries during Trump’s term, if memory serves - Pakistan, Israel, and Russia.

PugJesus,

The problem is that beating/ guilting/ shaming voters doesn’t work. It literally never has. Its been demonstrated, over and over again to be a counterproductive strategy.

Ah yes, the evidence of that being [checks notes] Hillary, a notoriously unpopular and uncharismatic politician, narrowly losing due to the electoral college.

I guess people in 2020 were just REALLY fired up about Biden, huh?

PugJesus,

They were really fired up AGAINST Trump.

That sounds almost like guilt or shame at the prospect of letting Trump win.

In terms of the policy position that is going to decide this election

Fucking lmao

PugJesus,

No, and I can provide data if you’re interested.

PugJesus,

We’re more popular in most of those countries than most European countries are - a lot of bad blood in colonialism there.

Western Euro countries approval of the US tend to vary wildly according to recent events, while Eastern Europe outside of the Russian sphere tends to approve highly of the US despite a significant gap on social issues.

PugJesus,

That’s not what I meant, but I guess if you want to play obtuse to avoid the fact that US jets (ie jets owned, not ‘manufactured’ by the US) running sorties on Palestine would be a great help to the Israelis and their quest for genocide and an escalation of US involvement in this atrocity, it’s your choice. If you would prefer to play dumb and assure everyone, once the dead are tallied up, that you were only PRETENDING to not understand the murderous consequences of your action and inaction, that’s up to you.

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