Also people mentioned how things may change in the upcoming days, like perhaps "thread" will be renamed to "post" to make it easier for people to migrate over from Reddit - and that sub should have additional tips in the coming days as well.
I also made https://squabbles.io/s/AnotherEdenGlobal to test it out as well. It has some nice "features", like lack of downvote button means less negativity!?:-D
Like most people, I don't know what to expect moving forward. Should we invite people here? The server literally may not be able to handle most of them - I had to try a few times to get an account, receiving a Too Many Requests error. But for now it's good to "play" and build up some experience with how this site works, especially not as a substitute for Reddit (yet) but to have additional options. Eggs in baskets and so on...:-D.
Feel free to create a post there to mention this, if you want to help promote it? Or should we invite just a few people first to get the hang of it who could then help others? Whatever, it's your space:-). I just want to help you build it, if you were interested.
They each have their pros & cons. I found a bunch of comments in a post on r/RedditAlternatives that said that they were experienced devs and very critical of the entire Federated concept. Like it's going to fail iirc, b/c it's inherently unstable, or something like that. Then again, the same could be said of squabbles, more for business reasons if the singular guy doing it gets sick or something then the whole thing crashes down? (+ then also it lacks the integration with Mastodon and pxlfd).
The biggest problem is that the AE Reddit sub has like more users than the entire squabbles server, or I dunno how to find those numbers for kbin.social, but e.g. m/gaming is the 2nd-largest one and it only has 6.7k currently subscribed. If even half of Reddit's AE Global server came here, or rather tried to, wouldn't it crash their servers? (Then again, as I write this Reddit's servers also aren't functional:-P)
Also there are no Questions megathreads, Free Talk Fridays, nor ability to set up the same... and maybe part of the charm of this place is that it is, or rather can be, smaller? e.g. jerks can just be summarily booted out rather than have to suffer their negativity. I've tried to think a little about that - is that what creates a "welcoming / free space", or is that kind of thinking what always seems to doom every utopia vision that's ever been tried? Forgive me for going this far, but that's what the Nazis tried to do: create a utopia just how they liked it, so where is the line between being TOO welcoming, vs. too restrictive? I dunno... I always just implemented the will of the already-friendly community, but if we have to make choices, what would the new Code of Conduct be, if any different than the old?
Anyway, what is your vision for the future here? Or are we still just playing around testing what works vs. not? Also do you want to try to create a post on https://squabbles.io/s/AnotherEdenGlobal, just to see what it's like?
I do think squabbles has a nice UI, and it would be easier for people to migrate, but after twitter, reddit, and facebook, I'm a little distrustful at this point of profit driven entities running social media. and once a founder sells off their company to some wall street investors, all bets are off for how the company is run afterwards. unlike some of these federated servers that run on user donations (hence users are actual stakeholders in how the servers are run), corporations have fiduciary obligations to shareholders to make more money, money, money, and users are the product to be monetized.
some people come to kbin and lemmy and are disappointed that it's not reddit. well, maybe it doesn't have to be? maybe not all of the AE reddit sub needs to come over for it to be a viable community? not everyone left twitter for mastodon, but that doesn't mean mastodon is a failed platform. but i think there are still social benefits to decentralized social media. it reminds me of the days when places on the internet were more personable and friendly rather than distant and corporate. personally, I'm fine dealing with the issues of a decentralized system. this way, your social connections aren't bound to the financial future of a company. but that's just my .02 and not everyone's willing to make the same choice.
in regard to Nazis and making a "utopia" and where is the line between right and wrong... if it requires hate, suffering, and genocide to create a utopia, it's not a utopia. it's called a holocaust. also, people these days seem to not understand the difference between "free speech" with "freedom from consequences of hate speech". they're not the same thing. usually people who play the "free speech" card also seem to have trouble applying that standard consistently, censoring voices that don't align with their own, and looking the other way when they break their own rules. the types of places that allow free reign in the name of free speech tend to get overrun by hate speech and far right groups, because their goal is oppression, and oppression always silences weaker and more vulnerable voices.
if you want an example of an opinionated community, you can look at beehaw.org, a lemmy instance where the mods acknowledge that yes, they are biased against hate speech and want to make a welcoming safe space for people. although i did have the same reservations with the lemmy developers that others had, so i do like kbin even though this current server is getting overloaded.
anyway, there's only 5 people on here right now (edit: sorry now its 7! almost on its way to doubling), and pretty much all of the AE subreddit is still on reddit. so i don't think we have to figure out everything all at once. unless some "crossing the rubicon" event happens at reddit. who knows if this place'll just go dead after some time. but, even reddit subs, over time, learned how to moderate and what rules worked for their communities as they grew.
Yeah I agree that open-source is 10000 times better than not.:-) And even if it's not right away, it's still usually (most often) better in the long-run. The Microsoft Office Suite and Mac OSX (the desktop, not iOS) are about the only exceptions to that I can think of. Apparently open-source has its issues too when egos or whatever it is gets involved in making better programs like MS Word, Excel, and Powerpoint.
I think part of the issue is that people don't bother with using words correctly anymore. e.g., the people who are against cancel culture are the very ones trying to do the cancelling, the people who whine about free speech don't like it when YOU try to say something they don't like, and even when they AGREE IN ADVANCE to the rules, suddenly they are shocked, shocked I tell you, shocked, to discover that they then have to follow them? I do try to see things from others perspective, but there is a hardened core there beyond which I just cannot see, or perhaps it is will not, b/c it has nothing to do with facts, and everything to do with sheer obstinacy: they don't follow the rules not b/c they were not aware, but b/c they simply don't want to. So like a thief who comes into your home - if they make it all about them vs. you, who will you choose to win? You have to fight back, or you can have nothing, including children of your own - everything will be taken from you, by those who have no scruples. Which is spanning a HUGE range there from people who e.g. post a question when the rules say only put those into the questions megathread (hehe:-), vs. I guess murderers of children, but the underlying concepts are the same actually, and it's only a difference in degree but not of kind. People don't want to follow the rules, period.
I know I don't - Huffman said I "had" to use the mobile app, so I immediately uninstalled it from two devices I had it on and will never reinstall again:-P. Ofc the difference is that it's MY device, so I have that right.:-D
One neat thought that I was exposed to at some point is that when a group is small enough, or shall I say ethical enough, you don't even need "rules", like "don't punch people in the face". It literally doesn't even need to be said. Conversely, you could have such a rule, and what good would it do you when it gets ignored by the same person daily? But back to the group being small: if you knew that the person punching you had JUST lost their SO or something and was severely struggling, we might just take the punch and forgive them, rules be darned. On the other hand, when the group gets larger, the rules help define what is acceptable behavior or not - can you wear hats indoors or...whatever I dunno - so that those who choose to follow them can do so, and then ofc there needs to be punishment or else they might as well not exist.
TLDR: a small group doesn't really need them:-), though even so it may help to lay out a "vision statement" or some such to help clarify expectations if it were to grow more rapidly later on.
It is nice to see you too! This Federated concept is so cool - apparently we can all share, from Mastodon or squabbles or directly from kbin, whatever we like. It's a breath of fresh air compared to what we are used to. I look forward to great things.
Unfortunately it looks like more things are broken than work, but somehow I get the feeling it may still be more fun than Reddit regardless? :-P Especially with my favorite people starting to migrate here:-D.
Hello! This is a drawing of Feinne and Varuo from April 2022. I'll be posting any art I make here! I'm currently working on a comic for pride month.
I haven't found a way to post multiple images on kbin like this lemmy user did. So for multiple image posts, I'll need to share an external link like mastodon or pixiv. The alternative would be to post each image of a set as a reply, but that feels clunky for many images and would clutter the thread (as well as strain kbin).
thanks for the suggestion! i got an account and tried several tests.
"posts" from pixelfed can upload up to 10 images at a time.
on kbin, making a kbin URL post to a pixelfed "post" will have an image preview
on kbin, making a kbin URL post to a pixelfed "collection" has no image preview
based on that:
for 1 image, i might just make a kbin "photo" post and upload directly to kbin
for 10 images or less, i'd consider making a kbin "URL" post linking to a pixelfed "post"
for > 10 images, I'd probably make a kbin "photo" post (so that there's an image preview), then add a comment with a link to the pixelfed "collection".
A very interesting and relevant article: https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditAlternatives/comments/144hqpg/looking_to_learn_why_do_you_believe_federated/. TLDR: everything now is going to be about "managing expectations". Not only is Reddit never coming back, but nothing is going to replace it either, period. 20k members from Another Eden Global aren't even going to fit on kbin.social (or maybe I'm wrong there - certainly we couldn't all jump over in one day, nor is that perhaps the best idea to begin with...), and how would bot/spam filtering work once it got "noticed" and triggered the ire of even one person who decided it would be a good idea to flood this place with filth? This article says that Federation is doomed from the start (tbh I didn't understand all of it so just read/scan for yourself to see what you can glean from it:-).
There are concerns, but the OP doesn't really get the Fediverse.
First, Mastodon is doing fine, very well in fact, and had hiccups when scaling rapidly. Literally every service has trouble with scaling fast. Reddit fell over when it scaled down rapidly. kbin/Lemmy/etc instances can throw resources and money (if they have them) or people will scale via new instances. That's how it works.
The old saw of federation is hard is blown out of perspective. kbin federated with Lemmy and it's not been an issue so far. In fact, it's been great. Overnight they more than doubled the number of magazines.
And remember, kbin is only a week or two old. They're actively developing it.
Moderation is gonna be the same here as Reddit because most of the existing Reddit mod tools aren't maintained by Reddit and are going dark due to the API costs. It's gonna be a gong show over there. Ditto on DMCA, GDPR, etc. Eventually people will build mod tools for Fediverse instances, like with Reddit, and that'll be good.
Will the Fediverse survive? Yes. Will it thrive? Yes, but maybe not kbin et al. Mastodon is doing well, and federation means that anyone using any ActivityPub based solution is potentially a memeber of this magazine. That's nothing to sneeze at.
All that said, we may never grow this magazine. Maybe the AE Reddit community won't move. That's cool. We may grow our own community. I'd rather not fracture, but lock-in is real. We take it as it comes.
I've looked at all the popular Reddit replacements - and some not as much even. Some have nice UIs, like 9gag tbh, but all have major, most often serious issues.
Like Discuit has only a single channel ("general"), and while tildes wants to scale up (yet not in terms of number of users it seems?) it too can only have channels created by the owner, squabbles.io is perhaps the best UI that is most similar to Reddit, but you have to constantly click "Show more", and "Show replies" over & over & over & over again - it's very annoying. Plus it's a Twitter replacement, not a Reddit one.
kbin.social really is the best. Even if it sucks - which it doesn't... exactly - it's flat-out ahead of all the competition. It's not that hard to learn, really, and quite frankly maybe that's not a bad thing - if you simply refuse to read and are unwilling to learn, even with people offering to help you, then your obstinacy is perhaps the kind of attitude that would have gotten you banned from here anyway?:-P The other side is that it can indeed be quite confusing - and yet since 98% of that can be ignored, is that so bad? Some of us care how it works, but most will care simply that it does.
I'm not much of a content creator though, so that may be the thing that this community really needs.
I think badges are like "flair" but not yet implemented.
I've been thinking about driving into the kbin source code, but it's PHP and it's been years and many versions since I've worked with PHP. Might have to dust off some of those skills.
I know some programming but never touched or even looked at PHP in my life so... I'll do us all a favor and stay away from it:-). But it has been fun learning MediaWiki encoding, even if also excruciatingly frustrating (e.g. their cargo sql-like database has a join on syntax, but then you can only use a single field for that, and I can't find any workarounds for it in general). That would be cool to see "badges" eventually - and that's such a foundational feature I'm sure it will get added, but if you want to be the one to do it, or even preventatively get ready to expand upon it later by learning how it would work, then how fun would that be!:-)
I'm not surprised one bit - those who have been reading about what Huffman did are going to have to wrestle with their ethics a bit in deciding whether to leave or stay, and it seems like a good fraction of the people who contributed the most content are the very ones who are most likely to choose the former. Something about being forward-looking & informed & all:-). Though I do understand that many others will choose to remain, to stay close to their own choice of content creators, and that's okay too. I'm not sure what the future of this community will end up being, but at a guess it probably will end up being fragmented, no matter what.
Also, how odd is this: I think this is the first post I've made to the AE community in a year and a half that wasn't INSTANTLY (as in, almost literally <1 minute) down-voted!? Ever since I dared to say that the Altema tier list provides some slight value as well as the wiki tier list, I apparently made myself an enormous target, and it's not just conspiratorial thinking b/c I literally have multiple screenshots demonstrating people calling for brigading tactics (despite being illegal violations of Reddit's ToS) against me, despite offering to re-write whatever language someone had issue with (and somehow still remaining, despite Someweirdo237 & xPalox editing my wording in the updated FAQ half a year ago already). Then again, I am wordy so some of that at least is a challenge that I can take upon myself, to improve my content:-).
Anyway, not to drag that toxicity over here in depth, I'm just saying that it's a breath of fresh air to be among a positive, welcoming, & affirmative audience that isn't also mixed in with... well... other stuff too. (Although the pics of sexy John Olivier are pretty amazing as well:-)
oh yea i know, those instant downvotes were so annoying and petty. someone had a bot setup probably. reddit just became too big. might happen anywhere, but i think the decentralization of the fediverse could mitigate that, allowing you to defederate instances and block could be more like a block unlike reddit's faux block.
but, i hope the fediverse like this platform will provide more opportunities for personal conversations.
I'm just so curious how this Federiverse will pan out: like ultimately, if literally everybody were to jump on it, then wouldn't it just end up being the same as Reddit in the sense of like you say something and immediately someone responds with a childish "nuh-uh" and calls you "ridiculous"? Whereas if you place blocks between them, then they are no longer "federated", or at least within the same federation? Ultimately a place is either welcoming & friendly, or else IT JUST ISN'T, and I'm not sure how it's going to end up being somehow both. But that's the exciting part: we'll get to see it as it builds up, live:-).
Thanks!:-) We've actually been at it for quite awhile now. We lost a lot of content that was segregated away in Google Docs as well, like when LivingGreen lost access to their Google account - the guides for characters, fishing, etc. were all unrecoverable even by the author. Ofc the wiki is perhaps somewhat vulnerable too, but in a different way than Google Docs or a Reddit post, that could go down at any time b/c of something happening to a single user.
Also, this game is too big for a single FAQ to just cover every single little thing - how to build a team, how to beat or even find a superboss, side-grade a character, which story char to pick for a L/S target, what are grastas, where to get them and which ones to aim to nab first. All of this stuff should be covered by better wiki pages than what we had previously anyway, so that seemed to be the best way to move forward:-).
ah, sad to hear they lost their account. even though i knew there were newer guides than LivingGreen's fishing guide, that was the first one I used when starting out as a new player and maybe a few others of theirs. fond memories.
wow, maybe i should think twice before using google drive as storage for more personal sensitive documents.
Fortunately, someone had made a personal copy of that one and shared it with me, so I put it onto my personal Google Docs account and linked it from the wiki (https://anothereden.wiki/w/Fishing) - though it's less relevant now b/c most of the raw factual data is on that wiki page anyway. I also added some tips to that wiki page from the other (Shipposting_Duck's) guide especially the touch-and-release method that converts fishing from an enormous chore to actually fun!:-) So it's only a historical side-note now, but yes your scenario (of thinking of it with nostalgic good vibes) is exactly what I was thinking of when I put it there!:-) "Necessary" or not, if it helps people feel better, then why not?
But the character guides were lost (or most of them anyway, or something like that). The author may have be in the process of re-making them, but I don't know the status of that. Living Green does not visit Reddit anymore, and I did not want to go to the Discord server to find out about the new person Melting Green that claimed to be the same person with a new account (although with an entirely different account for both Google & Discord, & still would not respond on Reddit despite the Living Green account actively posting in other subs, and even having made a couple comments in AE's? something was off there - if indeed the same person at all, then maybe just wanting to be withdrawn from public life so I chose not to press any further). Anyway, it's up to the content creator if they want to do more - I did offer to Living Green to take down the link on the wiki and remove it also from my Google account, and had someone convey that to Melting Green too, but never heard back from any of it.
The REALLY nice thing about the wiki is that knowledge can literally never be lost - a simple touch of the Undo button can revert any change, and there's a full history for each and every page, replete with who made the change, when, and even a place to describe why if they fill that field out, plus a diff to any other version you choose - that's quite handy!:-)
Fwiw, the author allowed their Google account to lapse, then never bothered to try to get it back, then let so much time go by that Google just deleted it, and then still could not manage to prove ownership - or wouldn't, or something. I don't think you have to worry much about your own records so long as you continue to log in once a year to keep your account in good standing. In many ways it takes better care of your stuff than you do, b/c even if a horrible accident were to occur to your physical records, it being on the cloud like that means that it would remain (and according to my way of thinking, if e.g. an EMP were to hit all their server locations, then having physical records of those documents would be the least of your worries...). So this way, the AI will know all about you, but that'll happen anyway and at least you get the benefit of choosing it:-). In fact, years ago I used to work at a job with a government contract, so I had to give them my fingerprints & SSN & everything, but then they got hacked, so now it's all out there somewhere... and it's not like I can just change those.:-P But so far I'm alright. DO be diligent, but there's only so much you can do, at the end of the day.
Just curious if you tried the Wayback Machine to see if that old post was archived? Though I guess it's moot at this point since you already wrote it again!
But now that I think of it, if there's some known good content that might get nuked in the near future it probably couldn't hurt to pre-archive it now so the text could be added to the wiki or elsewhere later on.
Yeah it's not like we don't know the thing already, and we've talked about it so much in the community, plus the comments of the article were still very helpful - as usual, especially dreicunan's was very detailed. It's just kinda unwelcoming to direct new players to it, but then it looks a bit empty.
Lets see, the biggest thing - aside from this ofc, and this, and omg this!!! - would be the Roadmap, and that's already ported over. I suppose if xPalox was thinking of leaving, things like the Glossary but that too could be re-done from memory if we had to.
There is just so much toxic blowback to putting things onto the wiki that it makes it difficult, except for "isolated" pages like these that don't draw the attention of a certain... ah... particular crowd of people. Sorry, I don't mean to be toxic myself - it's just the literal blocker to move forward with a ton of stuff, so it is what it is. But there is so much there that could be done, to make it more welcoming to newer players, so I try to move slowly but steadily & with as much sensitivity as I can, but without letting it stop me altogether.
Another Eden
Oldest