Crypto freaks behaving religiously is perhaps one of the most disconcerting and offputting things about crypto so props to you for doing praxis by alienating people with this Satoshi as Jesus Christ our lord and saviour shit. You’re doing good work deterring people from it.
sure, this might sound good in abstract, but it didn’t work out to be useful. almost no one actually uses it as a currency, they hold onto it as a pseudo-asset which fluctuates wildly in “value”. you can’t do anything with it except buy drugs. you can’t use bitcoin to pay for rent or groceries. some stores experimented with taking it as payment several years ago and they all quit because it was a pain in the ass and transactions took too long to clear.
a big reason why people say crypto is bad is because it has an https://www.pcgamer.com/so-youre-telling-me-that-us-crypto-mining-used-more-power-last-year-than-all-the-computers/ environmental impact and the main thing it’s known for is as a vehicle for normal people to be tricked out of their money and left holding the bag as its “value” evaporates. i don’t think you can really blame this on opportunists taking advantage of a “neutral technology”. i think it would inevitably happen with any so-called “money” or “asset” that has no inherit value and nothing backing it up institutionally.
it becomes a problem when your currency is treated as an asset. if your money will put on gains year-after-year without having to do anything, it’s deflationary and that means no one will want to spend it, causing a retraction of money supply. of course no one wants to lose their money’s value to inflation, but the deflationary aspect of bitcoin ensures that people will hoard it instead of using it to buy things. if the whole economy was like this, you’d be looking at something akin to the conditions of the Great Depression.
sure, this might sound good in abstract, but it didn’t work out to be useful. almost no one actually uses it as a currency, they hold onto it as a pseudo-asset which fluctuates wildly in “value”.
Have you met currency speculators? They do the same thing with fiat, as do speculators on every asset class in existence. This is not a problem that’s unique to bitcoin.
You can’t do anything with it except buy drugs. you can’t use bitcoin to pay for rent or groceries. some stores experimented with taking it as payment several years ago and they all quit because it was a pain in the ass and transactions took too long to clear.
If you google “where to spend Bitcoin” you’ll find plenty of places to do so. There are many restaurants, online vendor, hell, some US states even let you pay your taxes with it. Walk into any grocery store in the US with a coinstar and you can convert USD to and from Bitcoin. Is it as popular as the US dollar? No. But it’s much more popular than many other smaller national currencies, especially in the countries with those less reliable smaller national currencies. Why? Because even though Bitcoin’s price isn’t as stable as the US dollar, it’s easier to access and better than their local currency, they can trust it. All they need to use it is a cell phone and a cell network, which many places have even if they don’t have functional banking infrastructure.
a big reason why people say crypto is bad is because it has an enormous environmental impact
Problem 1: we get too much of the world’s power from unsustainable sources, that’s not Bitcoin’s fault. Bitcoin relies on the cost of energy usage to provide security. Energy has a relatively constant cost relative to the entire economy, relative to physics even, that is important.
Problem 2: What is the environmental impact of banking? Even smaller, what is the environmental impact of the top three remittance companies (Western Union et al) whose core functionality Bitcoin has been better at since day one? Bitcoin has lower fees, faster transfers, simpler cross-border movement of money, etc. What about all the Western Union kiosks and offices and whatever. That adds up. If we assume Bitcoin is to replace the global currency system, SWIFT, etc then we are really looking at a massive amount of energy that system uses. How much energy is spent driving cash from one place to another?. This is not even getting into non-proof-of-work cryptocurrencies which have their own pros and cons.
Problem 3: Bitcoin can actually be really, really good for the environment and can help subsidize the change to green energy due to its ability to dampen demand curves. I’ll leave this here for that
and the main thing it’s known for is as a vehicle for normal people to be tricked out of their money and left holding the bag as its “value” evaporates.
Crypto as a whole? Sure. Bitcoin? No. The crypto world is full of grifts, scams, and rugpulls and it’s incredibly unfortunate. Then again, many of these are very obvious on the surface get rich quick schemes. But it is how it is. These scammers don’t need crypto to scam, there was a healthy scam market long before crypto. Other highly volatile asset classes have similar problems. It’s a bad thing, and I agree with you that it’s left people with a bad association with crypto, and that is unfortunate.
i think it would inevitably happen with any so-called “money” or “asset” that has no inherit value and nothing backing it up institutionally.
Traditional currency relies on faith, a collective mass delusion that the currency is worth something. It’s a network effect. The currency is useful because other people believe the currency is useful. Does having an established, trustworthy government behind the currency help? Of course! You can also just impose the currency on people against their will, as many conquerors have done in the past. But that’s it. There’s nothing inherently valuable about a piece of paper that has Benjamin Franklin’s face on it. It ultimately comes down to trust and faith. People have faith that the US will continue to have sound economic policy and stable currency exchange raters, or at least that it will be sounder and more stable than the other national currencies. But any day that faith could end up being misplaced. Faith in bitcoin is faith in the mathematics underlying the system, faith in the most widely read and audited source code in the world. You don’t have to place faith in a person or institution, that is the key difference.
it becomes a problem when your currency is treated as an asset. if your money will put on gains year-after-year without having to do anything, it’s deflationary and that means no one will want to spend it, causing a retraction of money supply. of course no one wants to lose their money’s value to inflation, but the deflationary aspect of bitcoin ensures that people will hoard it instead of using it to buy things. if the whole economy was like this, you’d be looking at something akin to the conditions of the Great Depression.
You are making good points here, and most economists would agree with you that a little inflation is healthy precisely because it incentivizes people to spend money instead of hoarding it. Your statement presumes we would enter in a deflationary spiral because Bitcoin’s price would continue to increase forever, but I don’t think that’s a sound assumption, especially if it were to actually contain a majority of the wealth of the global economy. But even going on that assumption, I wonder how the world might look if somebody had to really convince you to part with your money. Perhaps our products would be of higher quality? Look to any country with hyper-inflation, people will spend their money on anything they can get their hands on because the money will be worthless tomorrow. It’s a broken market environment. In the same way that capitalism to function correctly must have the risk of failure, how might corporations and banks act more responsibly if they didn’t think the next bailout was right around the corner? These are interesting questions.
Satoshi gave us the ability to create our own financial systems and experiment with them, which many people are doing, and those experiments can be done without wrapping up an entire national economy in them. For the first time in human history since fiat currency became dominant, we have the ability to choose which economy to participate in, and it’s much more accessible and useful than for example trading foreign currency ever was. For example, want a universal basic income? Use a coin based around that concept. You can have a protocol that automatically distributes 1% of the total transaction fees of the entire network back to all the participants. And that 1% can be decided by a network-wide vote. You don’t have to convince a national government to run that experiment with the entire economy, you can grow a system for it sustainably by starting small. With blockchain technology, we have the opportunity to create economic systems which are ruled and governed by their participants, not their creators, not by whomever currently rules everything else. It represents a new type of democracy. That is a beautiful and exciting thing, and a gift that will bring all sorts of new things both good and bad. And we have Satoshi to thank for opening that door for us.
Bitcoin’s price volatility is often attributed to speculative mania. Unmolested prices have been shown to exhibit an expected, natural distribution characterized by Benford’s law. Deviations from this distribution indicate an anomaly, and typically that anomaly is caused by some type of fraud. For bitcoin, the entire period of daily closing prices from July 2010 through May 2020 was analyzed. Analyses for calendar years 2011-2019 was also conducted. We can say with near 100% confidence that bitcoin’s price has been fraudulently manipulated at some point in its lifespan since 2010. We can say with 95% confidence that bitcoin was manipulated in 2013; 95% confidence that bitcoin was manipulated in 2018; and 98% confidence that bitcoin was manipulated in 2019.
There’s lots of evidence bitcoin is not really living up to the hype. When you try to hype it with the same arguments while disregarding all the issues that have cropped up in the last decade, it’s not very convincing honestly. Also considering that its market cap is only ~$500 billion, which ~1% of global wealth, that’s not encouraging for its disruptive potential.
We can say with near 100% confidence that bitcoin’s price has been fraudulently manipulated at some point in its lifespan since 2010
Ok welcome to assets traded on an open market like… Bitcoin is not immune to that nor is housing or currency or oil or anything. The bailouts were market manipulation, the shit pulled to stop Gamestop investors was manipulation, the whole economic system is rigged and full of speculative manipulation.
Bitcoin has problems when it comes to usability, adoption, reputation, granted, I don’t think anybody who is actually knowledgeable about this topic disagrees about that, I certainly don’t. But the system is good, it works well, for 15 years it has faithfully kept to the protocol and worked without being hacked or experiencing any downtime.
You can say it hasn’t been hacked, but many people who have used it have been hacked. It’s not just people who didn’t know how to secure a computer, either. The biggest exchanges have all been hacked at one point or another and lost crypto, some of the most recognizable names in crypto have been hacked. What good is a currency that isn’t safe even in the hands of experts?
Ransomware could not exist without crypto. It cost the world 159 billion in downtime in 2021 alone. This doesn’t account for the amount of ransoms paid and business/personal data lost.
You hand waved away the environmental issues by putting it on the rest of the world to generate cleaner energy, but the whole problem is that there isn’t enough clean energy to meet global needs. If we could stop wasting 127 terrawatts of energy on Bitcoin per year, we would be a little bit closer to that goal. The problem isn’t clean energy, it’s a useless currency that can only exist by a competition of wasting energy, water, and chip manufacturing capacity during a climate crisis.
It has a huge pile of problems and negative externalities and what did it all achieve? Make a bunch of VC and early adopters rich? Enable crimes that didn’t exist before on a mass scale? Enable money laundering? It’s a solution still in search of the problem.
Ransomware could not exist without crypto. It cost the world 159 billion in downtime in 2021 alone. This doesn’t account for the amount of ransoms paid and business/personal data lost.
Actually it very much did, before crypto ransomware authors used pre-paid gift cards and other forms of payment. Scams and theft have existed since humanity had anything worth stealing, and they were all facilitated without crypto. There are scams and grifts in the trillions of dollars all of which have been completed with nothing more than some bad checks or faulty bank wires. Bitcoin is not immune to use and abuse by criminals, just like the regular banking system is not immune or the internet is not immune. When people do crime, you throw them in prison, and that’s about all that can be done about that. You can equally argue that Bitcoin is a boon to criminal investigators due to the transparent nature of blockchain transactions. You could make any of these arguments for or against Bitcoin just like you can PayPal or venmo or cash app or credit cards.
You can say it hasn’t been hacked, but many people who have used it have been hacked
You can safely make the assertion that “the banking system is secure” even though people get their wallets stolen on the train. The banking system isn’t responsible for that.
The biggest exchanges have all been hacked at one point or another and lost crypto, some of the most recognizable names in crypto have been hacked. What good is a currency that isn’t safe even in the hands of experts?
The security of Bitcoin itself has never been hacked. Exchanges get hacked just like regular banks get hacked, it’s not an indictment of the currency underlying those systems. Bitcoin and the ecosystem surround it comes with some features to help mitigate this risk like multi-sig wallets, cold storage, and social key recovery.
that there isn’t enough clean energy to meet global needs
A big part of getting to 100% renewable is needing to design energy generation systems to be over-capacity. Supply and demand must be equalized constantly, on a minute-by-minute basis. The only way you can do this with 100% renewable is to design way over capacity, which is expensive, which makes renewables more expensive. A partial solution to this problem is to use mining and other quick ways of dumping loads of electricity in a way that isn’t a total loss. Otherwise, you just have to send energy literally into the ground or have an under-capacitied grid which uses non-renewable sources to generate more energy during peak loads. As with all environmental problems, there is no one clear answer, it’s “where do you draw the box?”. Sure that shirt is made from recycled cotton but because it couldn’t be made by cheaper, local cotton manufacturers due to the special process it needs for recycling it had to be trucked from 8,000 miles away etc. etc. All I am saying is that Bitcoin can be a part of the solution and part of the problem at the same time. It’s more nuanced than just Bitcoin is a huge energy waste. Again, compare is to the energy usage of just remittance services and all the people and facilities they need to employ to exist.
It has a huge pile of problems and negative externalities and what did it all achieve? Make a bunch of VC and early adopters rich? Enable crimes that didn’t exist before on a mass scale? Enable money laundering? It’s a solution still in search of the problem.
Created a secure digital currency that can be used by anyone anywhere with the cost of entry of an internet connected device with 15 years of 99.9% uptime 24/7 365.
Providing banking to the “unbanked” and “underbanked” in ways that the traditional banking system was unable to do. Put the world’s poorest people into the same economic network as the richest and gave them equal access without the barriers of traditional banking systems, particularly those around borders, saving remittance users millions in fees sending money back to their home country. If you have ever done international wire transfers or western union you know they are slow, painful, highway robbery.
It opened up areas of international commerce and trade which couldn’t exist before, involving more people in the market economy therefore increasing efficiency, output, and economic opportunity. One way it did this is it made everybody party to these transactions trustworthy. I might be skeptical using PayPal to do business with somebody in a country with a reputation for fraud. But if I use Bitcoin, the money is either sent to me or it isn’t, there is no middle ground. They’re not going to do a chargeback after I send the item I’m selling, I don’t have to worry that my account is going to get blacklisted because I sent a paypal to or from the wrong place. There are many types of online international transactions that benefit from more surety. A fraudster can’t have money in two places at once whereas they can with slow settlement layers, chargebacks, “pending” transactions, and other nonsense that comes with traditional finance. I can confidently sell an iPhone to somebody in Romania with BTC, I would never even consider doing that with paypal or cash app or anything, yikes!
Enabled low fee, nearly instant international money transfers for anybody who wants to access them, moving millions of dollars of value across the globe securely without a single transactional fault or double-spend on a daily basis with insanely quick settlement times compared to banked options. Enabling the recipient of that money to know for sure they actually have it and move more quickly to the next step in the economic chain. High-friction money is bad for the economy, ask any economist. You want goods and services and settlement to be able to move quickly.
Provided an option for those who didn’t want to see their currency printed and eroded by a government they did or did not elect.___
Satoshi gave a gift to the world. He didn’t stick around to get rich off of it
Isn’t Satoshi the largest holder of bitcoin? If bitcoin was used as a global currency, would he not start off as the richest and most powerful individual?
Satoshi hasn’t moved any coins in many many years. Many speculate Satoshi is dead. Moving any of those coins would probably crash Bitcoin’s value relative to USD, but Bitcoin would survive and keep true to its promise via protocol: anybody who owned Bitcoin would still own that bitcoin and could faithfully transfer it around the network with no issues. And not even Satoshi could print more into existence.
Even if Satoshi could somehow sell all their coins at current market rates, there are still plenty of people whose wealth measures in the trillions who would be way richer and who really did nothing for their wealth aside from be born into it.
For context: Jeff Bezos owns 10% of Amazon. Zuck owns 14% of Facebook (down from 28% at IPO). Elon has 17% of Tesla. Satoshi’s share is relatively small compared to other founders, and all of those companies are worth more than Bitcoin’s total market cap. Those are just some people who got rich off a single company, there are people whose wealth is measured in countries not companies. People with lineage who measure their accounts in trillions, not billions. Satoshi would barely even rank on the list of richest people.
I wish I believed you. I believe the technology or some form of it has the potential for good, but I can’t realistically see it used that way in my lifetime. The only ones who have been flocking to it so far are grifters.
I was trying look up an article on that and honestly couldn’t find any. Probably just using the wrong keywords, can you point me in the right direction
spoiler>During the bank bailouts, the government just printed a bunch of money and gave it to the banks. They did this because it was politically expedient, well really because they had to or the whole damned system would collapse. They could have nationalised the banks, had the bankers sent to jailed and prevent commercial banks from gambling with depositor’s money yet they did not because the state under capitalism works on behalf of the monopolists. >Yet the problem is not new, throughout history, every nation that has ever failed, has had their currency end in hyperinflation. Or could it be that the nations which had economic issues suffered from hyperinflation? Cause and effect etc. >The temptation to print money is too strong. You do know the Government knows about the consequences. I wonder why Federal Reserve is constantly on about controlling inflation like its their primary goal. >No corruptible, tempted authority could use it to turn on the money printer and rob entire generations of their wealth or force them to pay for wars they did not support. Is it though? Because there have been various forks of Bitcoin. I think you are not understanding what money is. Money is used its used to reward people for their labor. Capitalists take a part of the productivity of the labor for themselves. This means those with more control over production has a disproportionate control over the resources. Those with more resources can buy ASICs and GPUs to mine more crypto than a homeless person, this will create inequality and the resulting consequences. >He made a currency which cannot be corrupted and cannot be hacked Yeah I wonder why Bitcoin forks exist and why exchanges and rich coiners get hacked so often. Could it be that there is more to stealing crypto than not being able to manipulate blockchain? Its almost like humans are imperfect and make mistakes. >It is neutral technology open to anybody with a phone or a computer and access to the internet. And those without a phone, computer or internet can get paid in cash. > 99.9% uptime, with instant transfers across borders Uptime ultimately depends on the reliability of those who run the internet. Lets say someone cut all the fiber links between NA and Europe/Asia, crypto will fail. Its reliability is dependent on real things like network switches, fiber optic cables and routers all of which are imperfect. You know what else can do instant transfers? PayPal, Card transfers and thousands of instant money transfer systems which exist. Bitcoin meanwhile can take hours to confirm a tx. > Which is much less than you need to open a bank account. You dont a phone or internet to open bank account. You go to a bank branch fill a form along with an ID, there you have a bank account. Don’t have a bank account? You can get paid in cash >Bitcoin doesn’t care about your credit history. Neither does most banks. Credit history is for obtaining credit cards and loans, not for opening bank accounts. Its why even children can open their own bank accounts. >or whether or not you can provide a reliable mailing address Neither does cash. You can also have virtual addresses provided to bank and there are digital banks which don’t even ask for that. >You never have to wait days for a payment to clear As mentioned earlier, neither does paypal. In fact, paypal and cards are faster than crypto in many cases. >. Bitcoin doesn’t close on weekends and will never charge you exorbitant fees to use your own money. Neither does internet banking. Bitcoin does charge fees, if you do a tx with zero fees there is a good chance itll never clear. >And it makes sure nobody can print away its value. And nobody can stop someone from accumulating value in your wonderful utopia. >“crypto bad” Yes, ghg emissions, no banking insurance, can be stolen very easily, slow and fluctuating value, easy to do price manipulation etc etc >He didn’t stick around to get rich off it, he didn’t use it for celebrity, he just made Bitcoin and disappeared. Doesn’t he have like over a million bitcoin? Your definition of ‘getting rich off it’ is selling it for real money. If lets say real money didn’t exist, wouldn’t he be the richest person on the planet? Finally I want to ask, what do you think of age of consent laws?
The most coked up, insufferable asshole you have ever met in your entire life: you hate me because I’m an introvert
Ah yes, the classic definition of an introvert is a guy that is visibly, physically uncomfortable when he’s not the center of attention and is infamous for assuming nobody could possibly understand how much smarter he is than the rest of the world. Of course. My deepest, most sincere apologies. Fucking jackass
PayPal Balance account required to access cryptocurrency. When you buy or sell cryptocurrency, including when you check out with crypto, we will disclose an exchange rate and any fees you will be charged for that transaction. For currencies other than PYUSD, the exchange rate includes a spread that PayPal earns on each purchase and sale. Learn more about cryptocurrency fees.
So, it is not clear to me whether you would be able to exchange monero for PYUSD in some non-KYC exchange, but from this I gather that the only way to actually pay a vendor using PYUSD would be to have a PayPal account that is tied to your identity.
Furthermore, their smart contract has a built-in “asstProtectionRole” that allows them to uni-laterally freeze the balance in any account.
Paxos Trust Company is regulated by the New York Department of Financial Services (NYDFS). As required by the regulator, Paxos must have a role for asset protection to freeze or seize the assets of a criminal party when required to do so by law, including by court order or other legal process.
The assetProtectionRole can freeze and unfreeze the PYUSD balance of any address on chain. It can also wipe the balance of an address after it is frozen to allow the appropriate authorities to seize the backing assets.
Freezing is something that Paxos will not do on its own accord, and as such we expect to happen extremely rarely. The list of frozen addresses is available in isFrozen(address who).
I don’t see this as much of an improvement over using PayPal and a bank. Maybe it can be useful if you want to move crypto into an asset that you can pay with in regular online purchases without going through an exchange. But PayPal will still play the role of the intermediary that knows you. Storing value in an asset that can be frozen by PayPal is absolutely not desirable. So I think that this coin is kind of a gimmick.
But it could have a positive influence in that online vendors might become more accustomed to accepting crypto payments, and it could help adoption in the long run. Let’s hope.
as for freezing accounts, it became common among centralized stablecoins
Yeah, from what they have written It appears like this is necessary feature to comply with regulations.
I am thinking about how I might be able to get a practical use out of PYUSD. Maybe if I kept all of my assets in crypto, then it might be useful to be able to get PYUSD and pay using a paypal account. But I have a lot more fiat than crypto available, and by using PYUSD I lose most if not all of the benefits associated with a crypto payment - plus gas fees. So I don’t see why I would chose this option over a normal fiat transfer.
I guess I’m having trouble wrapping my head around the real use case. Is this more than a marketing gimmick?
Idk about practical use of stablecoins outside of speculations. Probably paypal just covering niche without any clear understanding just because stablecoins under the hood is very similar to paypal , just using different rails
Probably paypal just covering niche without any clear understanding just because stablecoins under the hood is very similar to paypal , just using different rails
Yes, that is what it looks like to me.
The thing is… it would take such a small modification to this system to change the world. If PayPal were to implement this such that the PayPal payment can be made by transferring the crypto into the seller’s account directly and anonymously without the buyer having a PayPal Balance account, and then PayPal is willing to exchange the seller’s PYUSD for fiat directly on the site, this would be such a significant step in the crypto revolution.
Blockchain technology needs to just be implemented in projects quietly, not released as tokens for regular people to buy and speculate on.
The entire mentality of the crypto industry is to tell investors that these are stocks with bigger gainz. People regret that they missed out on Bitcoin so they are all chasing newspaper projects out of FOMO. It’s why almost everything is a scam and nothing useful is actually implemented.
The problem is that if you make a new blockchain with new utility, the only way to interact with that blockchain is to buy its native token. You can’t use Bitcoin without BTC and you can’t use a smart contract on Ethereum network without some Eth for gas fees, plus whatever the smart contract itself uses, if anything. Agreed on your general point though, lots of BS token sales and scammy people in the crypto world that have given crypto a really negative rep. Luckily the technology is so powerful that it will change the world regardless, but it is frustrating that there is such negative sentiment about a technology that will change the world for the better.
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