How normalized does hatred have to be for anyone to think that this defense isn’t inherently despicable:
…falsity of the Israeli army’s claim that the Palestinian civilians subjected to torture in the presence of Israeli civilians were fighters involved in the October 7 attack
Hamas prisoners or not this is pure, unfettered zealotry and it’s embarrassing that these soldiers thought this would be a credible justification.
Edit: welp I did some digging and I don’t know what to believe now:
Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor’s leadership routinely posts antisemitic and pro-Hamas content online.
The chairman of Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor’s Board is none other than Richard Falk—the former UN Special Rapporteur on Palestine who has hailed Hamas’ “spirit of resistance,” justified Palestinian violence, and claimed that Hamas aims for “long-term peaceful co-existence.” While he was Special Rapporteur, Falk was at the center of multiple controversies that led to continuous calls for his resignation by the U.S., UK, Canada, Australia, and others. According to the U.S. State Department, this was because of his “despicable and deeply offensive comments, particularly his anti-Semitic blog postings, his endorsement of 9/11 conspiracy theories, and his deplorable statements with regard to the terrorist attacks in Boston.” Falk had first called the Boston bombing a false flag and then justified it as a form of “resistance” that was “bound” to result from U.S. “military undertakings.” Even Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon had to come out several times to publicly denounce Falk’s statements. Falk’s antisemitism has even gotten him fired from a Human Rights Watch committee.
Sure, I definitely see that they’re biased towards Pro-Israeli and their founder was Chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations. I’m not going to stop looking until I find something conclusive, because of how repulsive these reported actions are. There’s a lot of propaganda out there, though.
Allegations of antisemitism and anti-Israel sentiment
An article by Sherry Ricchiardi in the American Journalism Review (AJR) noted that critics of Al Jazeera have “assailed what they see as anti-Semitic, anti-American bias in the channel’s news content.”[4] Ricchiardi had earlier criticized an Al Jazeera report that Jewish employees of 9/11 targets were informed of the attacks beforehand, a report which was also criticized in an October 2001 New York Times editorial. She cited the former Al Jazeera weekly show Sharia and Life, hosted by Yusuf Qaradawi (an Egyptian cleric who “argues clearly and consistently that hatred of Israel and Jews is Islamically sanctioned”).[5] The organization held a 2008 on-air birthday party for Samir Kuntar, a Lebanese terrorist convicted of killing four Israelis who was released in July of that year, later admitting that its coverage of Kuntar’s release violated its code of ethics.[6] The organization’s Beirut bureau chief said, “Brother Samir, we wish to celebrate your birthday with you” and called him a “pan-Arab hero.”[7][8]
Former Fox News conservative commentator Bill O’Reilly has called Al Jazeera “anti-Semitic” and “anti-American.”[9] Dave Marash who resigned from his position saying his exit was due in part to an anti-American bias at the network that is little seen in the US. Marash said he felt that attitude more from British administrators than Arabs. He said there were other reasons for his exit and was proud of the network’s coverage of issues south of the equator, but that he ultimately felt that it was not the right place for him.[10] He appeared on The O’Reilly Factor to challenge conservative host Bill O’Reilly’s lambasting of Al Jazeera and said: “They certainly aren’t anti-Semitic, but they are anti-Netanyahu and anti-Lieberman and anti-Israeli, right.”[4][11] Marash had also described Al Jazeera as “the best news channel on Earth.”[12]
On May 30, 2017, Al Jazeera’s English-language account retweeted an Anti-Semitic meme.[13][14][unreliable source?] The network tweeted an apology after the incident, calling it a “mistake.”[15][unreliable source?]
In May 2019, AJ+ produced a video denying and minimizing the Holocaust. Al Jazeera said it had “swiftly deleted” the video, stating that it had “violated the editorial standards of the network”. The video stated that “[the] number [of Jews murdered in the Holocaust] had been exaggerated and ‘adopted by the Zionist movement’, and that Israel is the ‘biggest winner’ from the genocide.”[16]
Your comment is not true whatsoever. Anyone that reads the history of the conflict will easily see that israel has been the key instigator of war every single time.
This is why I’m attempting to remain impartial and critical of both sides, to avoid spreading complete misinformation as you have done here.
“The United Nations resolution sparked conflict between Jewish and Arab groups within Palestine. Fighting began with attacks by irregular bands of Palestinian Arabs attached to local units of the Arab Liberation Army composed of volunteers from Palestine and neighboring Arab countries. These groups launched their attacks against Jewish cities, settlements, and armed forces.”
“After Israel declared its independence on May 14, 1948, the fighting intensified with other Arab forces joining the Palestinian Arabs in attacking territory in the former Palestinian mandate. On the eve of May 14, the Arabs launched an air attack on Tel Aviv, which the Israelis resisted. This action was followed by the invasion of the former Palestinian mandate by Arab armies from Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt.”
“The history of calls for the destruction of Israel is rooted in the prelude to its establishment. Leaders such as Azzam Pasha of the Arab League threatened a “war of extermination” in the event that a Jewish state was established. Prior to the 1967 Six Day War, there was a nearly unanimous consensus among Arab nations aimed at the obliteration of Israel.[7] Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser reiterated calls for the annulment of Israel’s existence in the lead-up to the war. Contemporary discourse from political figures in Iran, including leaders like Ali Khamenei and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, continues to advocate for Israel’s destruction, accompanied by antisemitic rhetoric and Holocaust denial.[8] Islamist Palestinian organizations like Hamas[9] and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad[9] consistently promote the goal of Israel’s elimination, as evidenced by their charters, statements, and actions, such as the 2023 Hamas attack on Israel.”
I have many, many more examples if you wish to continue spreading misinformation.
Again, this is misinformation. It’s particularly concerning that you are accusing me of not being nuanced when your uncharitable interpretation of the conflict seems to suggest that Israel never had a right to be there in the first place.
“After an Arab uprising against the Ottoman Empire arose during the First World War in 1916, British forces drove Ottoman forces out of the Levant.[3] The United Kingdom had agreed in the McMahon–Hussein Correspondence that it would honour Arab independence in case of a revolt, but in the end, the United Kingdom and France divided what had been what had been Ottoman Syria under the Sykes–Picot Agreement—an act of betrayal in the eyes of the Arabs.”
“The intended boundaries of Palestine were not specified, and the British government later confirmed that the words “in Palestine” meant that the Jewish national home was not intended to cover all of Palestine. The second half of the declaration was added to satisfy opponents of the policy, who had claimed that it would otherwise prejudice the position of the local population of Palestine and encourage antisemitism worldwide by “stamping the Jews as strangers in their native lands”.”
Your ire should be directed at the British protectorate for the ambiguity that enabled both sides to feel justified in their believed independence. This initial blunder seems to me to have fostered mutual extremism.
You mean in 1534 when they were permitted by Ottomans to establish a Jewish City-State?
Or maybe you mean in 1821 when the Jewish adviser and finance minister to the rulers of the Galilee, Haim Farkhi, was murdered and the Ottomans allowed their army to conquer Galilee?
Or maybe you mean in the late 19th century when they bought land from the Ottomans and peacefully settled?
Or maybe you mean in 1917 when the Ottomans deported them from Tel Aviv and Gaffa because the Ottomans were at war with the lands they immigrated from?
Or maybe you mean after 1917 when the obscure instructions of the British Mandate radicalized all of their Arab neighbors against them and galvanized the call to the violent eradication of Israel?
Or maybe you mean in 1921 and 1929 when Arab mobs violently attacked Jewish population centers?
Or maybe you mean in 1936-1939 when Arabs launched widespread attacks on both the British and the Jews?
Is it blatantly obvious how ridiculous your claim is yet, or do I need to keep going?
I’m not even sure what these have to do with modern Israel, which is ideologically a late 19th/early 20th endeavor.
You don’t think that the established Jewish territory prior to and during the 20th century has anything to do with modern Israel? You think that the revitalization of a Jewish homeland was unique to Zionist ideology when their occupation of both Galilee and Jerusalem was sanctioned by the Ottomans in 1534-1742?
You can’t have a Jewish majority state in Palestine without kicking Palestinians out of their home; it’s just not physically possible.
Of course you can, you just need more than one state. This had been the plan instituted by the British, but the British Mandatory authorities strayed from the plan as I already stated.
It’s a hard problem to solve. Every time Jews had established themselves in the area they got conquered or kicked out, who’s to say it wouldn’t have just happened again? And it doesn’t help that 5 Arab nations initiated a war of extermination before Zionists had the chance to expose these alleged intentions of ethnic-cleansing. In fact, Israel’s actions of returning land they had captured whenever Arabs went to war with them seemed to be in direct contradiction of the allegations.
When I examine the entire chain of events, I see two sides that had unrelenting ideologies. Not one.
What? Palestine has had Jews ever since the Arab conquest.
And? Babylonian, Greek, Roman, and Byzantine conquests? Crusades? Ottomans deporting them from Tel Aviv and Gaffa? We just went over this, keep up.
Uh… There had been numerous massacres before Arab involvement in the war. Remember Dier Yassin?
Remember the Hebron massacre in 1929 and 1936-1939 Arab revolt in Palestine that I mentioned? Remember the Hebron massacre of 1834? 1921 Jaffa riots? Stop playing games.
In early April 1948, the Israelis launched Plan Dalet, a large-scale offensive to capture land and empty it of Palestinian Arabs.
“According to the Israeli Yehoshafat Harkabi, Plan Dalet called for the conquest of Arab towns and villages inside and along the borders of the area allocated to the proposed Jewish State in the UN Partition Plan.[4] In case of resistance, the population of conquered villages was to be expelled outside the borders of the Jewish state. If no resistance was met, the residents could stay put, under military rule.[qt 1][5][6][7]”
Nonviolent occupation under UN sanctions. Really spooky stuff.
Uh… What? Israel definitely didn’t return that land because they wanted to. Just look at the Golan Heights.
You’re going to have to provide sources for this. You’re genuinely coming across as extremely predisposed to pardon any attempt of complete, violent obliteration by Israel’s neighbors. It’s fascinating to watch though.
You’re the one living in lala land where the British didn’t over promise after the collapse of an empire and you’ll only condemn one side of alleged genocide. It was just those filthy colonizers.
I don’t believe it, I know it. The sources are very clear. And I can find many more examples of Jews being treated like second class citizens by Arabs, not just Europeans. How preposterous for you to even refute. Ever heard of a dhimmi? You want to talk about apartheid then let’s talk about that instead of you making baseless claim after baseless claim.
BTW I just wanted to share some quotes and information with you since you seem to think Plan Dalet was expansionist and not precipitated. Not to mention those villages were either actively or imminently hostile.
“This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades.” Azzam Pasha, Secretary General of the Arab League. October 11, 1947 report on the pan-Arab summit
“The Arabs have taken into their own hands the final solution of the Jewish problem. The problem will be solved only in blood and fire. The Jews will soon be driven out.” Arab Higher Committee circular. 1947
“The surviving Jews would be helped to return to their native countries, but my estimation is that none will survive” Ahmed Shuqeiri (later PLO chief) quoted in Churchill and Churchill, p. 52
"There are over one million Jews in the Arab Lands. Their lives will be forfeit as well when we conquer the Jews.” Azzam Pasha, the Arab League General Secretary, May 1948.
Weird, your sources seem to be missing the events in late 1947 that led up to the formulation and execution of Plan Dalet. All cases of the Arab League threatening mass genocide of Jews and conclusive evidence of the Arab League having deep ties to Nazi Germany also seem to be mysteriously absent. 🤔
Weird, your sources seem to be missing the events in late 1947 that led up to the formulation and execution of Plan Dalet. All cases of the Arab League threatening mass genocide of Jews and conclusive evidence of the Arab League having deep ties to Nazi Germany also seem to be mysteriously absent. 🤔
Oh I have looked towards the New Historians for clear black and white answers to what otherwise seems like unabated mutual extremism. Unfortunately, Pappe’s absolute mockery of an attempted chronicling only served to add to the obfuscation of what can be accepted as truth.
Jørgen Jensehaugen, in the Journal of Peace Research, while calling the book “a good read”, faults Pappé for claiming that the preplanned expulsion of Palestinians was “the reason for the war”, rather than merely “one aspect of the various war plans”.[8]
Ephraim Nimni, in the Journal of Palestine Studies, commends Pappé on the book’s “polemical character”, but claims that the Zionist leaders were not solely responsible for the ethnic cleansing: Consequently, even if Pappé’s chronology is correct, and there is no reason to doubt this, the book does not provide a sufficient explanation for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. No matter how meticulous the planning by the leaders of the Yishuv (settlers) was, it would have been to no avail without an unusual concatenation of international events (the genocide of European Jewry, the onset of the cold war, the closing of liberal democratic gates to Jewish refugees, the emancipation of colonies in North Africa, and last but not least the hegemony of the model of the ethnic nation-state as the only available avenue for national emancipation).[9]
Even one of Pappe’s close colleagues completely discredited him:
Critical analysis appeared in The New Republic. In his review of The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, fellow new historian Benny Morris wrote, “At best, Ilan Pappe must be one of the world’s sloppiest historians; at worst, one of the most dishonest. In truth, he probably merits a place somewhere between the two.” Morris argued, “Such distortions, large and small, characterize almost every page of The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.”[11]
The siege of Jerusalem preceded Plan D according to New Historians.
On November 29, 1947, the UN voted to approve the Partition Plan for Palestine for ending the British Mandate and recommending the establishment of an Arab state and a Jewish state. In the immediate aftermath of the United Nations’ approval of the Partition plan, the Jewish community expressed joy, while the Arab community expressed discontent.[19][20][qt 2] On the day after the vote, a spate of Arab attacks left at least eight Jews dead, one in Tel Aviv by sniper fire, and seven in ambushes on civilian buses that were claimed to be retaliations for a Lehi raid ten days earlier.[21] Shooting, stoning, and rioting continued[dubious – discuss]apace in the following days. Fighting began almost as soon as the plan was approved, beginning with the Arab Jerusalem Riots of 1947. Soon after, violence broke out and became more and more prevalent. Murders, reprisals, and counter-reprisals came fast on each other’s heels, resulting in dozens of victims killed on both sides in the process. The sanguinary impasse persisted as no force intervened to put a stop to the escalating cycles of violence.[dubious – discuss]
From January onward, operations became increasingly militarized, with the intervention of a number of regiments of the Arab Liberation Army (consisting of volunteers from Arab countries) inside Palestine, each active in a variety of distinct sectors around the different coastal towns. They consolidated their presence in Galilee and Samaria.[22] Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni came from Egypt with several hundred men of the Army of the Holy War. Having recruited a few thousand volunteers, al-Husayni organised the blockade of the 100,000 Jewish residents of Jerusalem.[23] To counter this, the Yishuv authorities tried to supply the Jews of the city with food by using convoys of up to 100 armoured vehicles, but the operation became more and more impractical as the number of casualties in the relief convoys surged. By March, Al-Hussayni’s tactic, sometimes called “The War of the Roads”,[24] had paid off. Almost all of Haganah’s armoured vehicles had been destroyed, the blockade was in full operation, and the Haganah had lost more than 100 troops.[25] According to Benny Morris, the situation for those who dwelt in the Jewish settlements in the highly isolated Negev and North of Galilee was equally critical.[26] According to Ilan Pappé, in early March, the Yishuv’s security leadership did not seem to regard the overall situation as particularly troubling, but instead was busy finalising a master plan.[27]
Citation [25][26]&[27] are all New Historian documentation.
It is true that all the Arab states, with the exception of Jordan, rejected the UN partition plan. It is true that seven Arab armies invaded Palestine the morning after the State of Israel was proclaimed. It is true that the invasion was accompanied by blood-curdling rhetoric and threats to throw the Jews into the sea. It is true that in addition to the regular Arab armies and the Mufti’s Holy War army, various groups of volunteers arrived in Palestine,the most important of which was the Arab Liberation Army, sponsored by the Arab League and led by the Syrian adventurer Fawzi al-Qawukji. More importantly, it is true that the military experts of the Arab League had worked out a unified plan for the invasion and that this plan was all the more dangerous for having had more limited and realistic objectives than those implied by the wild pan-Arab rhetoric.
New Historian Benny Morris has described the Arabs as making calls with a “expulsionist or eliminationist mindset”:
In late 1947, King Ibn Saud of Saudi Arabia corresponded with U.S. President Harry Truman: The Arabs have definitely decided to oppose [the] establishment of a Jewish state… Even if it is supposed that the Jews will succeed in gaining support… by their oppressive and tyrannous means and their money, such a state must perish in a short time. The Arab will isolate such a state from the world and will lay siege until it dies by famine… Its end will be the same as that of [the] Crusader states.[15]
Around the same time, in response to the UNSCOP report, Azzam Pasha, the Secretary-General of the Arab League, stated that a war with the proposed Jewish state would lead to “a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacre and the Crusades.” Ephraim Karsh and David Barnett characterized this statement as a genocidal threat, while Tom Segev contested this interpretation.[16]
In the early months of 1948, Matiel Mughannam, an Arab Christian born in Lebanon and the leader of the Arab Women’s Organization, stated: [A Jewish state] has no chance to survive now that the ‘Holy War’ has been declared. All the Jews will eventually be massacred.[15]
“The Nazi government developed a cordial relationship with some Arab nationalists and it also cooperated with them, based on their common enemies and their shared distaste towards Jews and Zionism. Notable examples include the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine and other actions led by Amin al-Husseini…” - Nafi, Basheer M. “The Arabs and the Axis: 1933-1940”. Arab Studies Quarterly, Vol. 19, Issue 2, Spring 1997
I’ve used enough time disputing and this point about Nazi Germany and the Arab League is a really dense subject that Bernard Lewis. who is admittedly alleged to be anti-Arab/Muslim, has revisited many times after Basheer. It’s not really that important to my overall point other than its role in inciting The Great Revolt, which is when it became obvious that war was imminent.
I think you may be unfamiliar with the phrase “official policy” if you’re asserting the Prime Minister’s letter to his son as such. You’re also squinting really hard to avert your gaze from the numerous times Arabs made it abundantly clear they were going to respond to Jewish independence with indiscriminate obliteration no matter how the chain of events transpired. In fact, you responded to a total of 0 points involving genocidal threats made by Arabs before Israel’s existence in all three of your comments. 🤔
And yes, I’m sure you’re as critical of Pappe as you are of the undoubtedly anti-Semitic views of the Al Jazeera Media Network.
Morris attributes my mistakes for being almost a Palestinian. The moment you are a Palestinian you can only be a bad historian. He detests, as he admits, my siding with the Palestinian narrative of disputed events, such as the debate over the question of who provoked the 1920 and the 1929 riots. Morris relies on the British reports when they endorsed the Zionist claims and disregards the British reports when they endorse the Palestinian claims. I probably do the opposite in many cases, I admit it; he does not. He is an ‘objective’ historian.
Openly admitting bias does not exonerate you from the ways in which it affects the “truth” you report. You’re also ignoring the criticism that correctly points out that the chronicling of Israel’s history by Pappe can’t be reconciled with interconnected events that happened internationally or with the previously available avenues for Jewish emancipation prior to Plan Dalet being adopted as official policy.
I suggest you read the links I provided for the Concept of Transfer in Zionist thought and the two links on Plan Dalet if you think there is/was no “official policy.”
It’s funny you should mention your sources for the Concept of Transfer. This is what originally clued me in on your propagandistic presentation. Nur Masalha obviously failed to conduct credible research, evidenced by his use of works by known fraud, Israel Shahak. Shahak is infamous for taking a personal diary of one Yosef Weitz, who never so much as stepped foot into Jewish government, and deploying it out of context to prove some deep-rooted Zionist conspiracy. Far from being official policy, Weitz later even repudiated the idea.
As a public intellectual, Israel Shahak was accused of fabricating the incidents he reported, of blaming the victim, of distorting the normative meaning of Jewish religious texts, and of misrepresenting Jewish belief and law.[37] Paul Bogdanor claimed that Shahak “regaled his audience with a stream of outrageous libels, ludicrous fabrications, and transparent hoaxes. As each successive allegation was exposed and discredited, he would simply proceed to a new invention.”[38]
In his book review, Werner Cohn said that Shahak was making “grotesque charges” and that specific passages in Jewish History, Jewish Religion are without foundation:[32] Some are just funny. He says (pp. 23-4) that “Jewish children are actually taught” to utter a ritual curse when passing a non-Jewish cemetery.[b] He also tells us (p. 34) that “both before and after a meal, a pious Jew ritually washes his hands…On one of these two occasions he is worshiping God… but on the other he is worshiping Satan…” I did take the trouble to question my orthodox rabbi nephew to find what might be behind such tall tales. He had no clue. If orthodox Jews were actually taught such hateful things, surely someone would have heard. Whom is Dr. Shahak kidding?.[c]
The main contention among historians is whether or not “Transfer” had remained a contingency in the case of unavoidable war for Jewish independence or a secret plot. What I’m here to address is that you’ve only presented one interpretation of the events that defined this conflict. There can be a sincere case made for the origins of Zionism disillusionment with a lack of independence being embedded by centuries of persecution, the inhumane practices of Sharia law, and the burgeoning of such practices being galvanized by Islamic revivalists present in the remnants of the collapsed Ottoman Empire. I find it concerning that there is so much one-dimensional rhetoric about Israel’s practices of apartheid (to be clear this is not a justification for anything, but rather presenting the unrelenting nature of both sides of the coin) and yet the second-class citizenship associated with that of a Dhimmi is absent.
Muslim countries where Islam is the official religion and Sharia law has been declared to be a source, or even the only source, of the law, practice a “classical Sharia” system, creating a sort of “government under God.” The fifteen (15) countries that implement this form of Sharia law include: Afghanistan, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, certain regions in Indonesia, the Maldives, Malaysia, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen.15 In these countries, Sharia law has a high degree of influence on the entire legal system, including the areas of family and criminal law.16 In Pakistan, Iran, and Iraq, it is also forbidden to enact any legislation that is antithetical to Islam.17
According to human rights groups, some of the classical sharia practices involve serious violations of basic human rights, gender equality and freedom of expression, and the practices of countries governed by sharia are criticized.[18] The European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg (ECtHR) ruled in several cases that Sharia is “incompatible with the fundamental principles of democracy”.[19][20] Against this, “the concept of human rights” have been categorically excluded by the governments of countries such as Iran and Saudi Arabia by claiming that it belongs to secular and western values,[21] and the Cairo conference by the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation declares that human rights can only be respected if they are compatible with Islam.[22]+
In the 20th century, figures such as Sayyid Rashid Rida, Hassan al-Banna, Sayyid Qutb, Abul A’la Maududi, and Ruhollah Khomeini, have been described as such. Academics often use the terms “Islamist” and “Islamic revivalist” interchangeably.[9][10] Contemporary revivalist currents include Jihadism; neo-Sufism, which cultivates Muslim spirituality; and classical fundamentalism, which stresses obedience to Sharia (Islamic law) and ritual observance.[4]
No, it’s more that a few quotes are no justification for doing ethnic cleansing. Especially when there was no military policy that backed up any genocidal threats.
Let’s take a step back. If I gave the impression that I am attempting to justify anything, then I’ve made an error. I’ve already implied that I condemn both parties that this conflict derived from, I.E. my use of “…unabated mutual extremism”. The point here is to remember that I’m presenting what you’ve failed to include in your campaign, the contested interpretation and the context in totality. War had become unavoidable by 1947, and you can imagine what those Jew’s reactions would’ve been to facing another perceived existential threat.
I can’t find any evidence of that quote in the photo you posted at all, it’s as if they just made it up. The wiki commons for the leaflet say “A leaflet, distributed after the U.N partition resolution, by the Mufti High Command supporters, which calls the Arabs to attack and conquer all of Palestine, to burn all the middle east and cancel the U.N partition resolution.”
I’ll admit, it’s difficult for me to measure the validity of the original claim because I don’t speak Hebrew or Arabic. However, I do know that al-Husseini had already issued several declarations using this exact same Nazi-emulating rhetoric.
Back in the summer of 1940 and again in February 1941, al-Husseini submitted to the Nazi German Government a draft declaration of German-Arab cooperation, containing a clause: Germany and Italy recognize the right of the Arab countries to solve the question of the Jewish elements, which exist in Palestine and in the other Arab countries, as required by the national and ethnic (völkisch) interests of the Arabs, and as the Jewish question was solved in Germany and Italy.[185]
Subsequently, al-Husseini declared in November 1943- It is the duty of Muhammadans [Muslims] in general and Arabs in particular to … drive all Jews from Arab and Muhammadan countries… . Germany is also struggling against the common foe who oppressed Arabs and Muhammadans in their different countries. It has very clearly recognized the Jews for what they are and resolved to find a definitive solution [note: see German translation ] for the Jewish danger that will eliminate the scourge that Jews represent in the world.[205]
Plus you ignore the decades of Palestinians officials advocating for a unitary state or what life was and the dispossession of Palestinians like under British occupation.
I don’t blame you for accusing me of this. I’m not some omniscient scholar that can decipher exactly what version of events had occurred or who had the onus of making concessions in order to salvage some kind of unity out of what is otherwise over a century of suffering caused to the innocent bystanders of Palestine. However, I do know that there was enormous unrest in the region both before and after the birth of Zionism, and that I am acutely unqualified to suggest the perfect resolution.
Remember that friction was extremely high between these groups. It’s completely possible, had the events occurred differently, that Jews would currently be on the disproportionate receiving end of suffering. I just have absolutely no way of knowing.
Anti-zionism is not remotely antisemitism. Although, the intentional conflation of them is. As your saying the criticisms of the state of Israel (which doesn’t represent all Israeli and not remotely all Jewish people) is the same as genuine antisemitism.
In it, Gargash wrote that Al-Jazeera had “promoted anti-Semitic violence by broadcasting sermons by the spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, Yusuf al-Qaradawi”.
Qaradawi, he added, had "praised Hitler, described the Holocaust as ‘divine punishment’, and called on Allah to 'take this oppressive, Jewish, Zionist band of people… and kill them, down to the very last one’".
Bud, I would not go there. I could not care less what you choose to label it. Openly supporting systematic annihilation of an entire people is beyond redeemable. It’s heinous. And most importantly, it’s evil.
I highly suggest you try reading the book assuming Pappe is wrong about everything
Not everything. Definitely all the times he insinuates that Jews had complete and total control over everything and could commit ethnic cleansing whenever the hell they so chose, though.
First and foremost, I owe you an apology for all of my unfounded accusations. The mere fact that you are willing to hear me out is clear indication that I was mistaken. Upon reflection, it appears that your passion about the topic is entrenched by empathy for the Palestinians that lack any form of agency over their own suffering. That is, of course, the most important thing here. I would do better to remember that.
Note: In an attempt to cut down on the enormous amount of text on screen, I’ve added a lot of links to selected text. I’m not sure whether or not they’re going to work correctly in your browser of choice.
I don’t get your point about Yosef Weitz, he did play a major role with the unofficial Transfer Committee and the JNF. Which has dispossessed Palestinians to present day.
My point is that extremism had pervaded both parties perpetuating this conflict, not to mention there was a tidal wave of Nationalism surging through many countries of the time period. The presence of radical ideology is self-evident and gets us no closer to conclusively proving that the Jewish government had always been plotting to expel Palestinians by force. There needs to be a very clear distinction here. This controversy is embroiled in an abyss of disputed information.
The JNF is actually a prominent example of an organization that took measures not to expel Palestinians by force. There were plenty of Palestinians that were more than happy to sell their land in Palestine, presumably because they wanted to live elsewhere.
And that once Zionism chose Palestine as a location, it was deliberately a settler colonialist movement.
Yes, they made mention of this often. Presently the terms “settler” and “colonialist” are used to retroactively transpose modern narratives onto a period in history where conquest/colonialism had not yet been demonized. The Ottoman Empire had not even completely dissolved by the turn of the 20th century. Hell, Egypt, Jordan - Syria and Iraq all swooped in to occupy territory in Palestine, even though the only country that Britain had sanctioned in the territory was Israel. And sure, the ideologies of Zionism were certainly distorted by individual extremism, but I would argue that the underlying goal of an independent Jewish state is not inherently evil when considering they had long established territories in the region. As you brought up, the alternative was to submit themselves to the inhumane segregation of Christian fundamentalism or the inhumane segregation of Islamic fundamentalism.
However, looking into the history, it looks like many Jewish people experienced more rights as Dhimmi than they would’ve under Christian nations for example
I think we can agree that they’re both demeaning, and they’re both inhumane. Here are some examples of rights stripped away from you under the Ahl ad-Dhimma System:
required to pay additional taxes, required to wear certain forms of dress, required to join only a set list of occupations, had their ability to work in the government circumscribed, forbidden to possess weapons, judged in Islamic Courts for any crime involving a Muslim (even if the Muslim was the perpetrator), Jews and Christians confined to certain areas, etc.
Especially during the Ottoman empire, it looks like Jewish people had comparatively more rights and was generally considered a ‘safe haven.’
The Ottomans sometimes made concessions to appease Europe, but Islamic revivalists were still prevalent. Sharia law still being rampant in the middle-east to this very day should be more than sufficient evidence that it was not just paranoia.
Amin Husseini became antisemitic largely after his Exodus to Germany. I’m certain he fell for Nazi propaganda and even tried to promote it in Palestine. However his influence continued to dwindle after his Exodus and in Palestine his western antisemitism didn’t really catch on
I’m almost in complete agreement with you here, but I would still be very careful that we’re not conflating that contemporary Palestine and Arab League. I only ever claimed it had ties to the latter, and the former was not the only Jewish adversary. I’d just really rather not get into the minutia of this topic, its only relevance is the cooperation of some Arab leaders and the fear it would invoke in Jews. It’s not isolated to just Husseini:
Ba’athism has been criticized by Western observers as similar in form to Nazism, specifically regarding its historic anti-semitism, authoritarian and nationalist tendencies.[287][288] The historian Stephen Wild in his 1985 paper National Socialism in the Arab near East between 1933 and 1939 briefly draws a direct line between these two ideologies. He cites the fact that Michel Aflaq, one of the founding fathers of Ba’athism, purchased a copy of Alfred Rosenburg’s The Myth of the Twentieth Century. He also quotes Sami al-Jundi: Whoever has lived during this period in Damascus will appreciate the inclination of the Arab people to Nazism, for Nazism was the power which could serve as its champion, and he who is defeated will by nature love the victor.
We were racialists, admiring Nazism, reading its books and the source of its thought, particularly Nietzsche’s Thus Spoke Zarathustra, Fichte’s Addresses to the German Nation and H.S. Chamberlain’s Foundations of the Nineteenth Century which revolves on the race. We were the first to think of translating Mein Kampf.[289]
Arsuzi formed the Arab Ba’ath Party in 1940
Hopefully I at least raised enough alarm about Al Jazeera to compel you to be more skeptical about them. The English branch does placate to public opinion, but has still been caught pushing the limits of antisemitism until the outrage starts to boil. I do strongly agree with you though, criticism of Israel is indeed not antisemitism. And extremism still present in Israel continues to disproportionately cause much more suffering than any extremism permeating the Palestinian population.
I don’t think Pappe ever insinuates ‘jews’ had ‘complete control.’
Pappe’s entire rhetoric about an overarching “master plan” is beyond silly to me. The Arab League’s biggest weakness was not having a united front, but for the overwhelming majority of this time period, even up to the very month the war of independence began, the Jewish military could not even begin to compete. If not for the exact set of events that lead up to this moment in time, such as the Holocaust and emancipation in North Africa both causing massive surges in Jewish emigration and conscription, conquest in Palestine would’ve never been feasible for them as they would’ve been easily obliterated as soon as they occupied territory in Palestine. However, I won’t discredit his assertions that there were radical individuals.
I don’t agree with the notion that the civil war was inevitable. For one, that argument depends on the notion that Palestinians had no desire for peace and wanted to genocide all the Jews
We have a complete misunderstanding here. I’m not suggesting that Palestinians, or Arabs in general, had no desire for peace. They had no desire to recognize Israel’s independence, under any circumstance. And Israel had no desire for anything but independence, under any circumstance. These two diametrically opposed beliefs were on a collision course from the very beginning.
Let’s say I’ve got 100 episodes of NOVA. I’ve added one episode to a playlist about a certain subject, and there’s a bunch of other videos in that playlist about that subject....
You’re not doing anything wrong, the playlist function is just half-baked. My guess is they put just enough work into it to intend for it to be used in small chunks, such as a single evening.
Edit: I’ve just seen your clarifying statement, and although Plex playlist is relatively non functional I’ve never seen that specific behavior. Try hitting play on an item in the playlist instead, that works for me.
Don’t forget that Bethesda allocated memory incorrectly for page size and used ExecuteIndirect, instead of the proper call for DX12, which causes Starfield to play a game of telephone with Nvidia GPUs. It’s not just the outdated engine lol
I know this seem like a typical “Your opinion man” post but honestly, is there anything really useful beyond hosting an adblocker? (read: complementary, not found elsewhere, that enhances own’s personal needs and/or life as a whole). And yes, I’m aware of what can be hosted – picture editors, video editors, webtops,...
Instead of minutia, I’m just going to mention the few reasons that really sold me on containers.
Security: Being able to host external services that only have access to the folders I map to it.
Compartmentalization: I can specify exactly what resources I want to limit/control for each individual service. I.E. stacking a VPN on top of services for a 100% guaranteed Killswitch.
Automation: Docker is an incredible tool for automatically restarting services whenever they hit a snag and keeping your services up to date with the latest version.
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The aftermath of Israeli strikes on Rafah (www.aljazeera.com)
At least 67 Palestinians killed in Israeli attacks on Gaza’s southern city of Rafah as strikes hit houses and mosques.
Major western news outlets manufacture consent for Genocide (lemmy.world)
Israel kills head of Hamas police's special forces in Rafah - report (m.jpost.com)
The commander of the IDF’s 98th Division said he would work on evacuation plans “if and when” he is told to launch an invasion....
how do playlists work?
Let’s say I’ve got 100 episodes of NOVA. I’ve added one episode to a playlist about a certain subject, and there’s a bunch of other videos in that playlist about that subject....
Yay... (lemmy.world)
Can't grasp the idea that I need more than an adblocker for docker.
I know this seem like a typical “Your opinion man” post but honestly, is there anything really useful beyond hosting an adblocker? (read: complementary, not found elsewhere, that enhances own’s personal needs and/or life as a whole). And yes, I’m aware of what can be hosted – picture editors, video editors, webtops,...
Both beliefs are fine, but please realize the hypocrisy (sh.itjust.works)