Dont let anybody convince you the protest is not working, otherwise they wouldn't be doing all of this in response.
I left reddit and don't intent to come back, but for those protesting, I wish you all the luck
I personally don't think the protests are working. But they are getting reddit admins to show they have no interest in the communities on reddit and as a result, are helping push everyone to wonderful new communities that don't generate revenue for the owners of reddit. So I just may be misunderstanding the goal of the protest, but it's definitely doing something!
If the protests weren't working at all, reddit's admins wouldn't care and wouldn't be reacting to those protests. That they're taking such heavy handed actions to change things would suggest that the protests are working.
That doesn't mean they'll succeed in the end. I don't know. But they're certainly working to some degree.
A better way of phrasing it would be that reddit is saying the protest isn't having much of an effect. Which is clearly not the case. Or that the protest is working in the sense that it's dramatically disrupting reddit. The stated goals of getting them to change their policies seems unlikely to come to fruition though.
Well, not "everyone" is choosing to see that, sadly:-(. I suppose I get it, they don't want to hear that what they love is gone. It IS sad, but it's also the truth.
I noticed it seemed that unitedkingdom was mainly bots or the paid troll farms e.g. for the American evangelical movement etc. pushing anti lgbt, anit abortion..... Or at least that or all the pro choice, pro lgbt have jumped and the scum has flaoted to the top.
This is really becoming apparent on Facebook too as more and more people move away, especially the younger and more active crowd, and all you're left with is propaganda bots copying and pasting the same FUD comments on every news article or group post.
How do you define "working"? I think it was pretty obvious from the beginning they were never going to change their minds
However they accomplished
A bunch of negative media coverage
Completely crashing the site
A terrible AMA that showed spez is not a good CEO and the company is not profitable
A select few accessibility apps are whitelisted (for now)
Free drama for all of us
The IPO is fucked regardless of what reddit does next, they are in a lose lose situation. Anyone who thought they would turn around and change their mind is delusional and doesn't understand how maniacal CEOs work
What a lot of people don't seem to understand is that there is no turning back. There is no reason for them to keep ANY mod that participated in the blackout or said anything negative about the API decision even if they reopen and try to appease them now. Might as well mutually self destruct
Well, no, there is a way to turn back. The shareholders can fire spez and replace him with someone community-friendly. A lot of goodwill has been burned, but that would put out the fire pretty quickly, at least.
They are after a profit and any CEO they appoint will be ordered to chase after it. But volunteer content creators and volunteer mods are not clammering to work for free to make them rich. This whole thing has exposed the fundamental problem.
If they brought on a new CEO who kept removing mods forcefully and telling blind people to get fucked I don't think that goodwill would last very long. They would have to give up something to get on everyone's good side.
Except that it wouldn’t fix the fact that a lot of 3rd party developers are done. Even if Reddit sacked Huffman and rolled back the API changes, the odds of Apollo, RiF, Sync, etc. developers coming back is basically zero after all of this.
And now that they’ve shown their hand with the mods, the odds of getting their good mods back are slim-to-none as well.
Yeah. I don't intend to go back there, but I still think the garbage fire is important. Mainly because it makes it impossible to be a bystander. Before the blackout, there was a some amount of naysayers. Now, those people don't get as much value out of Reddit, so they will be more inclined to cut their losses and leave the site.
The IPO is fucked regardless of what reddit does next, they are in a lose lose situation. Anyone who thought they would turn around and change their mind is delusional and doesn’t understand how maniacal CEOs work
In fairness, the IPO was probably knackered already. One of Reddit's main investors, Fidelity Inc. dropped their valuation of Reddit shares by almost half some months ago, and I can't imagine that would do particularly good things to any IPO efforts that Reddit might have been trying to pull. Were I an investor, I'd probably steer away from Reddit if their valuation suddenly plummeted by that much.
Never mind the whole API changes lately, which both puts the users into an uproar, and makes a mess of things that could cause advertisers to pull out, dropping their revenue even further, and the AMA/Interviews with the CEO don't only show the CEO to be a liar, but have him admit that Reddit is unable to make its own first-party app profitable, unlike third-party apps that let users access the site, which smells like mismanagement. I'd have a lot of questions, and none of them are good.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the recent changes were an effort to try and salvage their stock price, by pushing AI, and bumping up their revenue by making AI companies pay to use the API to integrate their models with Reddit, and/or as a way to pump and dump Reddit, so that they can get out before the money runs dry.
That being said, this whole debacle is making Reddit stocks tastier for risk-tolerant investors; The more the valuation plummets now, the more potential it has to bounce back.
Most likely long-term outcome of this whole thing IMO: The valuation continues to go down for the next several months as the fallout from this API decision and subsequent protests drives away more users and advertisers and generates more bad press. Eventually the internet forgets about it (minus the "power users" who have already migrated elsewhere), and Reddit will wait until well after that for their IPO. Whether before or after the IPO, u/Spez will be replaced as CEO. While that likely won't change much, it'll be a symbolic move to say "we listened to the users/investors." After which, valuation will quickly recover to pre-debacle levels.
Only question from there is whether the loss of the "power users" was enough to send the site on a permanent downward trajectory. My guess is probably not; plenty of people left to fill that void. Reddit will continue on, as a slightly shitier, more investor-friendly site.
I honestly got the impression that the u/Spez AMA was intentionally shitty, as an attempt to scapegoat him. I cannot fathom how a multi billion dollar company could allow that to happen unintentionally. It was comically bad. They're just waiting until after the API change goes live to actually can him, so they don't have to change the decision.
Right, I think this is what people are misunderstanding. Reddit was never going to change their minds. I was hoping that maybe the API prices were negotiable, or maybe they were going high to start with then going lower later to make them look like the nice guy. But in no way were Reddit just going to say "oopsie, our bad" and go back to how it was.
So why protest, then? Well, exactly what you said: if Spez is going to ruin the site, lets help him do it. Let's create an absolute dumpster fire, let's demonize him in the press, let's spoil the IPO, let's make "fediverse" a household term.
If that is the point of the protest, it's worked with flying colors. Spez is losing his mind, entire mod teams aren't just getting kicked out they're getting out right deleted. More bad press, more people jump ship, fediverse exploding with activity, new Lemmy servers spinning up left and right.
It took Digg about 2 years to shed its users and it'll probably take Reddit longer than that because I think Reddit has become more entrenched than Digg ever was, but I think it'll happen. Twitter is a shell of what it was before Elon, and Reddit will become just as big of a joke. From cultural phenomenon to laughing stock in 2 weeks, because of one guys ego. Same as it ever was.
It took Digg about 2 years to shed its users and it'll probably take Reddit longer than that because I think Reddit has become more entrenched than Digg ever was, but I think it'll happen. Twitter is a shell of what it was before Elon, and Reddit will become just as big of a joke. From cultural phenomenon to laughing stock in 2 weeks, because of one guys ego. Same as it ever was.
Subs that are coming up with creative ways to protest is everything that is right with the internet. I hope more of them continue to make Lemmy/Kbin their new home. A lot of these mods are showing their true dedication and it's only deepening my appreciation for what we had (before Reddit irrecoverably broke itself). We seem to be in the bust of the social media boom/bust cycle. looking forward to things growing around here!
This is actually far more self-destructive than Digg.
The Digg Exodus was mainly down to just stupidity on the part of a whole team and the users deciding they weren't going to take it. Rexxit is due to pure malice on the part of one person.
I started calling it that on Reddit as soon as the app shutdowns were announced and have been pushing it for broader adoption. I'm sure some other people came up with on their own, too, but I'm happy to see it spreading whatever the source. :)
Well, I'm not convinced that the C-suite at Snoo Inc aren't also co-signing this, but Hufflepuff McSpeztron certainly wants to play the big baddie, so the big baddie he shall be.
I wish all remaining redditors luck on making this #rexxit very painful for him.
The incredible thing is that the July1 day-of-reckoning for every 3rd party app user is less than 2 weeks away. Like, the fires will barely be extinguished when they throw gasoline on a heap of tinder. No time at all to let things cool off.
I mean, to be realistic Reddit will remain a top 0.1% site for years. But they're really making sure that its all downhill from here.
Edit: Entire mod team received a 7-day suspension. I still cannot login on my account.
Edit2: Admins seem to be saying this was done to prevent subs spamming sexually explicit content. On r/MildlyInteresting we did NOT do this or intend to do this, as was clear in the update that the admins manually removed:
To be clear - this does NOT mean we are allowing pornographic, sexually explicit or illegal content. Our existing rules will still apply. We are simply embracing our proud history of user-curated lewd fruit and vegetable content. This history includes, but is not limited to, photos of oddly-shaped produce, landscape features reminiscent of genitalia, or other quirky sights that might cause one to raise an eyebrow. https://i.imgur.com/DwXEb8K.png
Edit3: The entire r/MildlyInteresting team has been unsuspended and reinstated.
ModMail from a different admin (not ModCoC) explains that we were apparently "swept up in actions" that they were taking against "communities that were encouraging sexually explicit content". Situation remains really unclear, and the fact we were a mistake does not excuse r/interestingasfuck being targeted or any of the other 5 subs.
Edit4: Please be aware that NSFW content on Reddit is opt-in. Nobody who did not manually opt-in to see "adult content" was exposed to it through r/interestingasfuck and other subs. We might have been a mistake, but that doesn't excuse the others.
I'm not surprised. To my understanding, IAF was only permitting people post hardcore pornography, for example, so... they flew pretty close to the sun, there.
Obviously a pretty effective form of protest, in terms of being disruptive, but I can't imagine a world where that doesn't bring down the boot.
Was it only hardcore porn? All I saw was 50% memes about nudity allowed and 50% basic nudity like boobs and pussy reveal by gonewild / only fans posters. Divnt even see softcore solo content let alone hardcore porn.
Except a small number that probably opted in for NSFW for getting spoilers or other non nude purposes, most already have nude content present in their feeds and use alt accounts. Going by the memes many did seem unaware of the decision to allow NSFW content, but given the site wide opt in it seems reasonable to allow.
Was it only hardcore porn? All I saw was 50% memes about nudity allowed and 50% basic nudity like boobs and pussy reveal by gonewild / only fans posters. Divnt even see softcore solo content let alone hardcore porn.
... Did you just imply that a "pussy reveal" and "basic nudity" isn't "softcore solo [pornography]"?
Except a small number that probably opted in for NSFW for getting spoilers or other non nude purposes, most already have nude content present in their feeds and use alt accounts.
This is some high octane copium. You're just gonna broadly assume that most users consume porn on Reddit? Like that has any relevance, even if it was true?
Going by the memes many did seem unaware of the decision to allow NSFW content, but given the site wide opt in it seems reasonable to allow.
No, it's putting porn on people's screens without consent.
Okay we might have different definitions. I consider masturbation and stuff as solo. Just flashing is pretty much nudity.
I didnt say majority are there for porn. I was clearly speaking of the ones who opted in for NSFW. Majority of them did consent to the possibility of encountering such content. Thats the whole point of that check mark.
The consent was the opt-in they enabled for the account.
Opting in to NSFW content is not consenting to randomly have pornography thrown at you by a subreddit that wasn't a porn sub when you subscribed.
What the fuck, dude.
Majority of them did consent to the possibility of encountering such content. Thats the whole point of that check mark.
There's an enormous difference between "I'm okay with content considered NSFW, like descriptions of war and so on, being shown to me" and getting porn in your main page. That check box is not an "I consent to being shown porn" button.
Looks like you are the one arguing about a rare case.
Mere mentions of war aren't tagged NSFW and extreme imagery are relatively rare on reddit.
Like mentioned we seem to have different definitions of porn. Most of the content I saw on IAF that day were memes and nudity similar to those seen on mainstream movies. Its my responsibility to check their rating. Those aren't classified as porn AFAIK.
not quite they basically said they would only enforce Site wide rules and let the users vote what content they wanted. bots came in posting only fans nonsense that mods keeps out then the community picked up and went with it. I am not saying they didnt encourage it but they didnt "only permit it". mods are a lot like many other hidden jobs from refuse collection to IT operations teams, everyone thinks they don't do a lot until they stop working and the shit builds up.
Why should it bring down the boot? Porn is acceptable on reddit, users voted to make the sub NSFW in democratic fashion (following the wishes of Spez), NSFW content is opt-in, and moderators control the subreddits they moderate.
None of this goes against reddit rules or policies.
Because it wasn't a porn sub before. They had, what, eleven million users? If you can't see the problem there, I think you're being a little disingenuous.
I can't see the problem there as the people who own the sub get to decide how to run it per reddit's policies. If switching to allowing NSFW images is an issue than isn't any other rule or topic change an issue too? Can you actually describe what you think the problem is here?
Then you haven't really thought about the situation at hand, then. Like, at all.
Imagine sending a picture to your friend. Unprompted, undiscussed. If the picture is a meme, we can both surely agree that that isn't problematic in any way. If the picture is a dick pic, you've just committed sexual harassment.
Even though both were sent without explicit consent, the context of your existing relationship matters, and -- in the context of you and your friend not sending sexually explicit photos to one another on the regular -- the lack of consent in the case of sexual material is a significant issue.
This is essentially the problem with the scenario at hand. The people who suddenly had pornography show up on their front page did not consent to it by subscribing to a porn sub. Yes, even if it was voted on by a tiny minority of subscribers, and yes, even if the sub essentially became a porn sub -- the eleven million existing subscribers didn't consent to seeing that material.
There is, frankly, essentially no way to take an existing, large subreddit, with millions of users, and make it a porn subreddit without violating the consent of a significant chunk of those users. No matter how much the moderators want to do so.
Please don't tell me I need to explain sexual consent to you.
The glaring oversight in your opinion is that all NSFW posts are clearly marked as NSFW, and desktop reddit along with all the mobile apps have settings requiring you to opt-in to view NSFW posts with further settings to actually display the image previews or hide them (default).
This would be akin to you and your friend both consenting to send NSFW images to one another, your friend sending a link with a NSFW tag (not even an actual image), and then you being shocked when you click it and find it's a NSFW image.
Your whole argument is disingenuous and borders on concern trolling or pearl clutching. Reddit is full of porn and other NSFW images, so don't act like they're suddenly showing hard-core porn to a bunch of kids or something.
The glaring oversight in your opinion is that all NSFW posts are clearly marked as NSFW, and desktop reddit along with all the mobile apps have settings requiring you to opt-in to view NSFW posts with further settings to actually display the image previews or hide them (default).
But not all NSFW content is porn. And turning on NSFW visibility is not the same thing as being subscribed to a porn sub.
Your whole argument is disingenuous and borders on concern trolling or pearl clutching. Reddit is full of porn and other NSFW images, so don't act like they're suddenly showing hard-core porn to a bunch of kids or something.
Okay, let's change the scenario a bit then. Let's say I magically know you have NSFW content turned on, on your Reddit account. We've never conversed.
I then, unprompted, start sending you links to hardcore pornographic images, in your DMs. Once every half hour or so.
Is that something you think would be totally fine? Do you seriously think I wouldn't be violating a lack of consent on your part? You've turned on visibility of NSFW posts, after all, you must be fine with seeing it!
There was Google+, which happened a few years ago, but it didn't get used all that much to begin with, and Google tried to push it on everyone, making it even more unpopular.
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