@delta@chaos.social
@delta@chaos.social avatar

delta

@delta@chaos.social

Secure decentralized messaging for all major platforms and then some. Reliable and instant by using fast and secure Chatmail servers, but also compatible with traditional email providers. Offering chat-shared web apps for fun and collaboration, end-to-end encrypted and without any server side hosting. Security-Audited multiple times, last in 2024. Chat over e-mail and head back to the future with us! Avoid xkcd927 :)

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delta, to random
@delta@chaos.social avatar

While we do have criticisms of its centralized architecture and other choices we highly regard Signal for ushering in a decade of popularizing end-to-end encryption. We particularly appreciate @Mer__edith doing excellent communication work there. It's disingenuous that tech-billionaires Musk/Dorsey fuel attacks on her and another female colleague, hinting at Telegram as a more secure messenger. Comparing security of Signal with Telegram simply results in "Type Error: incompatible arguments".

delta, to security
@delta@chaos.social avatar

WhatsApp introduces "ask meta ai" in the local chat search bar, and Slack auto-feeds messages to train their LLM robots https://eigenmagic.net/@NewtonMark/112455578857917485 ... Delta Chat is among the shrinking number of messaging applications that does not look at your data except to end-to-end encrypt it and send it over interoperable message transport servers chosen by yourselves and your contacts. #decentralization #security #privacy ftw!

delta, to random
@delta@chaos.social avatar

Often overlooked from our "but e-mail!" skeptics: Any sufficiently advanced P2P messenger will eventually re-invent a custom, partial form of e-mail ... because users want to communicate when their apps are offline or not foregrounded and active at the same time. See https://briarproject.org/download-briar-mailbox/ for a recent example.

Delta Chat goes the reverse route by providing a secure and interoperable e-mail based messaging experience and then adds P2P tech like https://webxdc.org on top.

delta,
@delta@chaos.social avatar

@rakoo stay tuned :) but we will not compromise on reliability, efficiency and ease of use which means we tread carefully. Instead of a distributed hash table (dht) we are to use the massively scaled e-mail system for bootstrapping P2P connectivity and paradigms. Any P2P system needs a bootstrapping mechanism, if not email it would be "root" servers and they are way less federated and decentralized than email :) but more when the time comes as we prefer delivering working code not ideas.

delta,
@delta@chaos.social avatar

@lyyn @fell @rakoo surely, push notifications are a complex thing only arising because mobile OSes prefer to prevent apps from just sitting there, listening for network activity. https://dontkillmyapp.com/ exists for good reasons.

delta, to random
@delta@chaos.social avatar

Delta Chat may be criticized for not being the most secure messenger in some sense or not the most feature rich. When it comes to interoperability, however, our efforts and collaborations are the biggest game in town, no? The two biggest sets of internet standards revolve and operate at massive scale around E-Mail and the Web. Our approach fully engages and takes up these extremely impactful sets of standards, and reliably rewires them into a modern UI #deltachat #webxdc #chatmail #xkcd927

delta, to random
@delta@chaos.social avatar

Did you know that Delta Chat is the only mature, cross-platform secure messaging app that does not use or need a key server?

Signal, Matrix, Proton, Whatsapp all effectively operate key servers that reveal the cryptographic identity (a very strong identifier) behind an address.

Delta Chat uses decentralized specs and protocols that reveal your cryptographic identity only to those you choose to interact with. Nothing can be publically queried.

Background link: https://delta.chat/en/help#encryption-and-security

feld, to random
@feld@bikeshed.party avatar

@delta is it supported to self-host an email server for Delta Chat and have functional push notifications with the iOS app?

delta,
@delta@chaos.social avatar

@feld yes, if you setup according to https://github.com/deltachat/chatmail?tab=readme-ov-file#chatmail-services-optimized-for-delta-chat-apps then iOS push notifications work automatically.

delta,
@delta@chaos.social avatar

@feld for the moment you will need to read the (small) source of chatmaild and adapt it to your server software and also do your own deployment .... Basically you need to read what is in https://github.com/deltachat/chatmail?tab=readme-ov-file#chatmail-services-optimized-for-delta-chat-apps .... What server software do you want to use?

delta, to random
@delta@chaos.social avatar

Delta Chat is an in-between project: often ignored as a messenger by e-mail companies/experts and then ignored by messenger companies/experts because of its use and interoperability with e-mail. As Heinz von Foerster once said: "If you are doing something genuinely new then don't ask the experts. If you do something that has already been done, then, by all means, ask the experts." FWIW many experts have verified Delta Chat's security mechanics https://delta.chat/en/help#security-audits :)

delta,
@delta@chaos.social avatar

The problem with asking the experts about something genuinely new is, according to Heinz von Foerster, that they will only explain to you why it can't work or why it is a bad idea. We had no shortage of such experts in the past years :) However, common objections like
"e-mail is too slow", "secure e-mail is not possible", "you can not do a Whatsapp-style interface on top of e-mail" are having an increasingly hard time to be upheld because of the reality of Delta Chat apps working :)

delta, to random
@delta@chaos.social avatar

The "webxdc evolve" project is now official and was just announced from one of our early followers and advisers, @ansuz , but it's not just a boilerplate announcement! Ansuz dives deep starting from his yearslong cryptpad maintainership history, his early involvement in up to the present and future .... Very good reading if you want to understand some.foundational considerations around evolving an end-to-end encrypted, decentralized web app platform ...
https://cryptography.dog/blog/announcing-webxdc-evolve/

delta,
@delta@chaos.social avatar

@lutindiscret @ansuz @matrix sure, matrix and also signal and others could support webxdc and benefit from it. As far as we can tell, however, they are unlikely to jump on it soon. Fwiw matrix has "widgets" with application-specific server side hosting (tied to business interests) ... Whereas webxdc apps can be added by users to chats without requiring any application specific server side hosting. Webxdc has no "integration" server like matrix needs as apps are written in a P2P paradigm.

delta, to random
@delta@chaos.social avatar

Seems the french surveillance practises (Hadopi) identifying people behind IP addresses have been legalized by a top EU court. Fwiw servers remove any IP address traces after two days and collect no personal data whatsoever. Maybe it's time for a french themed chatmail server similar to the de,pl,us ones? https://delta.chat/en/chatmail

delta, to random
@delta@chaos.social avatar

A wild community experiment that can not but fail? Probably but whatever, welcome to massive multi-device usage of #deltachat on #chatmail :) it's an account not shared between your own devices but between all devices who can import the backup file that is currently circulating .... Bringing you an anonymous e2ee encrypted forum without individual user identities, with autodeletion from server after a week .... also adressable wirh e2ee messaging .... #DepartmentOfCrazy

delta, to security
@delta@chaos.social avatar

For those who like to focus on #security an honest question: which other messenger has, like #deltachat in the last 13 months, received and addressed two independent security audits and one security analysis, all three from renowned auditors and researchers? CC @kuketzblog https://delta.chat/en/help#security-audits

delta, to random
@delta@chaos.social avatar

Apart from the default server advertised on our onboarding page there are at least three other stable open-signup servers whose operators cooperate to ensure stability, see this new page covering background such as funding, trust etc https://delta.chat/en/chatmail

ArneBab, to random German
@ArneBab@rollenspiel.social avatar

Climate Doomism und Collapse: da braut sich übles zusammen: https://www.draketo.de/politik/kommentare#doomism-collapse-uebel

delta,
@delta@chaos.social avatar

@ArneBab @jakob_thoboell falls ihr da mal Beratung oder Infos haben wollt von wegen Delta Chat, chatmail etc sagt gerne Bescheid. Wir beschäftigen uns mit Zusammenbruchsituationen aber meist in anderen Ländern. Prävention und preparedness macht aber Sinn.

delta, to Matrix
@delta@chaos.social avatar

Messaging transports better be dumb and do the bare minimum to get the job done for end-to-end encrypting apps. Compared to homeservers servers are two orders of magnitude more dumb, consume two orders of magnitude less resources and are blazing fast and don't require extra (central?!) identity and integration servers. With delta all intelligence, including general purpose https://webxdc.org/apps and protection against compromised networks and servers, lives on the end device.

delta, to random
@delta@chaos.social avatar

"but e-mail !1!!!" Is probably still a number one objection from experts and power users who refuse to fathom that e-mail protocols are a viable option for instant messaging even if it demonstrably works, is fast and secure :) We'd be happy if someone engaged in a proper comparison with xmpp and matrix specs and impls, really the only three messenging protocols deployed and implemented at scale. (Can't compare that with Signal or WhatsApp which don't have wire specs!). https://github.com/deltachat/deltachat-core-rust/blob/main/standards.md

delta, to random
@delta@chaos.social avatar

How many people do you know that have lost their messaging history on Whatsapp or Signal, photos etc during mobile phone transitions or breakage or through other shenenigans?

With #deltachat you can:

delta, to random
@delta@chaos.social avatar

The last 1.44 release round did not only contain a lot of UI/UX milestones but also 20 security fixes based on a deep analysis from Yuanming Song and colleagues of the Applied Cryptography group at ETH Zuerich https://delta.chat/en/2024-03-25-crypto-analysis-securejoin

AAMfP, (edited ) to random
@AAMfP@fosstodon.org avatar

Hi folks at @briar @delta and @Jami .
I need your help and hints, please.

Can I (easily) embed one of your communication protocols in a React Native + TypeScript app?

I'm creating an app (TKCompanionApp at @fdroidorg) that is currently as strong in privacy as possible (no permissions at all, not even Internet!), but I would like to allow users to directly share data and I'm wondering which is the simplest way to do so, respecting their privacy.

delta,
@delta@chaos.social avatar

@AAMfP @briar @fdroidorg @Jami Yes you can, our desktop client is react + typescript for example. There are two libraries to use our rust core:

  1. the old CFFI bindings: https://github.com/deltachat/deltachat-core-rust/tree/main/node (docs: https://js.delta.chat )
  2. the new jsonRPC bindings: https://github.com/deltachat/deltachat-core-rust/tree/main/deltachat-jsonrpc

You can find examples here: https://github.com/deltachat-bot/echo/

delta, to random
@delta@chaos.social avatar

The default setup of is for open signups (anyone can get an address) but some operators implement a private signup protocol and that's fine and easy enough to do because https://github.com/deltachat/chatmail/ is a small machine.

Chatmail addresses should be abundant and safe to use for anyone , and cheap to operate with basic skills .... A few thousand chatmail routers might already cover adresses for 10 billion people, with less resource/energy usage than a single VC funded LLM startup :)

delta, to random
@delta@chaos.social avatar

#deltachat just got four major usability improvements as the 1.44 releases are rolling out
💗 Reactions on all platforms
💗 iOS Push notifications
💗 Multi-account desktop sidebar
💗 share invite links via other messengers. Enjoy :)
https://delta.chat/en/2024-03-12-jumbo44

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