Moms for Liberty Speaker Says It's Time to Start Re-Reading Hitler, Stalin, & Mao

“Here’s the thing,” Robinson said. “Whether you’re talking about Adolf Hitler, whether you’re talking about Chairman Mao, whether you’re talking about Stalin, whether you’re talking about Pol Pot, whether you’re talking about Castro in Cuba, or whether you’re talking about a dozen other despots all around the globe, it is time for us to get back and start reading some of those quotes.”

This is the Lieutenant Governor of a state (North Carolina) saying we can get gems from the quotes of genocidal maniacs. This is where we are now.

DessertStorms,
DessertStorms avatar

The most relevant quote I could think of:

"Only one thing could have stopped our movement - if our adversaries had understood its principle and from the first day smashed with the utmost brutality the nucleus of our new movement." - Hitler

It's just a shame that those who need to hear it are too busy calling us bigots for "calling everyone you disagree with a Nazi" while actual literal Nazis are getting organised in the background....

It's almost like living in a satire, not sure if it's more absurd or scary.

LegalAction,

not sure if it’s more absurd

May I introduce you to my buddy Camus?

DessertStorms,
DessertStorms avatar

Appreciated, though at this point I can't think of any fiction that could top the deeply distressing absurdity that is our timeline..

LegalAction,

I don’t know why Camus is so often thought of a fiction writer. He wrote some pretty serious philosophy as well. It’s like calling Plato a writer of fiction.

I’m particularly a fan of The Rebel. His Letters to a German Friend are pretty interesting too.

DessertStorms,
DessertStorms avatar

I suppose fiction was the wrong word to use, I guess I just mean I have enough real world shit of my own to deal with, I don't have room in my brain for philosophised shit too (however well written and thought out it might be) haha

JustZ,

This is a feature of fascism, the gaslighting, I mean.

DessertStorms,
DessertStorms avatar

Oh, absolutely, none of this is accidental.

Hellsadvocate,
Hellsadvocate avatar

The best part is when you argue this, they will argue with nuance and equal footing. As if the basis of this movement is legitimately comparable to super liberal people that... Checks notes want human rights for others.

DessertStorms,
DessertStorms avatar

Then you point out that centrism clearly enables fascism, and their heads explode in rage (if only)..

pinkdrunkenelephants,

I used to be a centrist, and I guarantee you they genuinely do not get that this far-right fascism is NOT a legitimate political faction or worldview. They think it’s legit simply because 100 million Republicans exist, and that us what they say, so it must be a legit political school of thought. But fascism, hate and genocide are not.

I guess we could try telling them that the right is not legitimate and that by treating them as if they are, they’re enabling genocide, but who knows if that would register with them. You could play with it and suss out who is a genuine centrist and who is a fascist shill pretending to be, though.

dx1,

Well, they are historical primary sources. Should be read, yes, not as go-to-advice for how to run society, but as a study in dictatorial manipulation tactics. Those who ignore history doomed to repeat it, etc.

Naura,

So what i am hearing is that if libs read that stuff it’s unamerican but if they are reading it they are using it as a source book of authoritarianism of sorts.

OldBean,

I’m don’t support this guy, and he’s absolutely pandering, but in the context of what he actually said in that speech the meaning is the exact opposite of what the article and op are suggesting. Just watch the actual video and not just this out of context clip

zib,
zib avatar

Has this guy ever tried reading Mein Kampf? My grandma had a copy when I was a kid (I don't think she was a nazi...) and I looked at it once out of curiosity. It read like incoherent nonsense to me at the time. I always figured it would have been more useful as fire kindling or compost for a garden.

LegalAction,

Fact is, it’s an important work for historical reasons. If you want to understand how Nazism works, and how it differs from Italian fascism, and be able to draw the lines that connect Nazis to historical German (and other nationalities) anti-Semitism, you need to read it.

If I had a copy, I wouldn’t put it on display, but it is the kind of thing I can totally see being assigned in a college course on WW2 or some similar topic.

NB: I’ve only read a few excerpts for a class similar to the one I described above.

Also, I am against book burning in any circumstance. A book is never worth more as kindling, unless you’re actually freezing and then it would be a hard choice.

Weirdfish,

I agree with everything except not burning a book to keep warm when freezing. Unless the book was “How to start a fire with other books when you are freezing”.

RiikkaTheIcePrincess,
RiikkaTheIcePrincess avatar

Yeah that bit was weird. Like, I'm gonna die to spare a copy of Mein Kampf? I'm sure there are others.

Now, maybe there's an argument to be had that I don't own a copy of that book and must have taken it from someone else, possibly intending to use it as kindling... But like, was I gonna burn something of more interest and possible use, or the damn Hitler book only the edgiest "history" fans and a few weird history nerds seem to actually like.

What were we talking about? Oh yeah. LegalAction wants us all to die to save copies of Mein Kampf, which will then be destroyed anyway without anyone to protect them. Kinda goofy opinion, that.

zib,
zib avatar

Sure, I was only half joking. As an academic matter of understanding the history and recognition of early-to-mid 20th century German fascism, it's a useful learning tool. But, as a tome of intellectual philosophy (which is what nazis like Robinson seem to be implying it might be), it's little more than garbage.

Mpeach45,
@Mpeach45@lemmy.world avatar

I think you mean “Hoes for Hitler.”

Moms for Mao?

Stupes for Stalin!

keeb420,

Simps for Stalin.

HakFoo,

Where do I sign up?

Dressedlikeapenguin,

Cunts for Castro

themeatbridge,

I thought Klanned Karenhood was clever and apt.

Mpeach45,
@Mpeach45@lemmy.world avatar

oooh that’s REALLY good.

Arcynic,

Twazis

Hypersapien,

We should be reading them so we can recognize when fascists today are doing the same things.

blazera,
blazera avatar

bonus hypocrisy points for being a book banning group to begin with

Aesthesiaphilia,

We should be reading them though

I thought we were the party of "banning books is bad"?

Read them with historical context.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You go ahead and read Mein Kampf. I don’t need to read Hitler’s own words to know how evil he was or what he did.

Aesthesiaphilia,

Those who refuse to learn history are doomed to repeat it.

Especially the bad parts.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You can learn history without reading Mein Kampf yourself.

LegalAction,

You can learn names and dates of battles etc., but you won’t understand the driving forces if all you have is “Nazis are bad.”

Nazis were humans, not some kind of mythological monsters. If they could do what they did, you can too. You need to understand why they did what they did, how the ideology motivated them, or compelled them, because those same forces can work on you as well, and sometimes in ways you don’t realize.

Primo Levi survived the death camps, and wrote about his experience extensively. Despite being a prisoner, he felt complicit in the Nazi project, just through trying to survive. At one point he recalls being on a work detail, during which he discovered a water pipe that had some water in it. He drank the water, and although he saw another prisoner lusting after the water, he didn’t share, because he wanted to survive.

That other man also survived the camps and later found Levi, and asked why he wouldn’t share the water. Levi had no answer at that time, but when writing his memoir he said the structure of the camp system was such that it employed even the inmates as agents of their own extermination.

He ended up committing suicide in the 80s.

If you don’t understand the psychological and social pressures working on you - which come from everywhere, btw, not just Nazis - you can’t fight against them. You will go along to get along.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Why do you need to read Mein Kampf to understand that?

LegalAction,

So you know what Hitler actually said? So you don’t fall for something like “the Germans didn’t really know what was happening”? Yes, they did. It was published, and you can cite chapter and verse.

Same reason to read anything.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

No, I don’t fall for that because I read history books. So I don’t have to read Mein Kampf. What’s next, making it required reading in schools?

Are you really under the bizarre impression that no one who hasn’t read Mein Kampf has any idea of what Nazism was about?

FlightSimEnjoyer,

He really wants you to be reading Mein Kampf. Sounds very suspicious, right? /s

LegalAction,

It’s always worth putting your eyes on the primary source yourself. History texts are not without their own agendas. You’re familiar with 1984, yes?

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Again- should all schoolchildren be reading Mein Kampf so they can understand the horrors of WW2? Or is there another way to do that?

LegalAction,

I didn’t say school children, and I didn’t say all. I said it was necessary for anyone studying ww2. Here, that’s usually done in university.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Schoolchildren study WW2. My daughter did. Therefore it is necessary for them to read Mein Kampf, correct?

LegalAction,

It’s functionally impossible to assign whole books to middle schoolers. And don’t confuse what you learn in primary education with real study.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

First of all, middle schoolers read whole books all the time. You clearly don’t have any kids who are or have been through middle school. Secondly, there’s also a thing called high school and they study WW2 during it.

Thirdly, this was what you said initially:

We should be reading them though

I thought we were the party of “banning books is bad”?

Read them with historical context.

You didn’t say anything about real study. You just said we should be reading Mein Kampf within historical context. So I’m now confused as to why you don’t think school children should be reading Mein Kampf.

Faildini,

History books are secondary sources. Which are sufficient for the average person studying history. Perhaps even preferable, since they are written with historical context already supplied, although you do also get the inherent bias of the author.

But that doesn’t mean that there isn’t a place for primary sources like Mein Kampf. Primary sources are the only thing that tells scholars what was happening in history at any given time, and history books can’t be written without scholars studying primary sources. So should Mein Kampf be required reading for middle schoolers? Of course not, no one is saying that. But it may absolutely be required for, say, a graduate level course in WWII history.

Blacklisting or stigmatizing a text serves no one except those that want others to remain ignorant.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

No one is talking about blacklisting anything, but are you really suggesting there is no stigma to Mein Kampf? Really?

pinkdrunkenelephants,

You don’t actually need to read Mein Kampf to understand the driving forces of Nazism back then and the fascism we face today. Actually the underlying forces nowadays are too different for Mein Kampf to even be relevant. History doesn’t repeat itself, it rhymes.

ProfThadBach,
ProfThadBach avatar

This guy is a christofasist and it is embarrassing my state elected him.

LostMyRedditLogin,

The new right wing astroturf group funded by the wealthy to control the news cycle. Just tiresome.

DevCat,
@DevCat@lemmy.world avatar

It’s nice to hear them saying the quiet part out loud - and then doubling down on it.

ilovesatan,
@ilovesatan@lemmy.world avatar

To me it’s terrifying that it’s escalated to the point where they are openly espouseing genocidal maniacs

ChocoboRocket,

I’d prefer them acknowledging how stupid these failed leaders were, and how we should never repeat this history.

There’s nothing good or positive about someone who is debatably a fascist, says something fascist, and then confirm they endorse facisim.

There’s no world I can think of where the above is true. Sure, you could say “but it’s easier to punch Nazis!”, which yes, should be the immediate response to learning someone is a fascist. But clearly if they’re comfortable implying it, then doubling down, we’re clearly not punching enough Nazis.

I much prefer a world where people are too afraid to espouse facisim, because they actually know its a terrible idealogy, and they will immediately lose all respect and social standing from anyone who hears about it.

WholeLottaButtStuff,

I find it interesting that they are now also trying to lump in other despots we know they wouldn’t agree with, as though trying to gloss over and obfuscate their apparent ties to White Supremacist ideology.

Was there any mention of “reading their quotes” in a context of ‘how can we learn from, and not repeat the mistakes of history’?

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