I love Tarantino films; major fan. But I don’t think he’s capable of nuance or subtext, both of which are heavily used in the franchise. I would also abhor a “hard R” Star Trek film. It would be right up there with the Kelvin films. There’s no way in hell the fan base would allow something like that to be canonized. The only alternative I could see is if it involved time travel and all of the "hard R"s were from humans from the past.
Star Trek itself often has nuance that’s about as subtle as being hit in the face with a brick. Need I remind everyone about Let That Be Your Last Battlefield, TOS S3E15.
Counterpoint: with some subject matter, you don’t need nuance or subtext. Hence why IB remains, in my opinion, his greatest work. It’s one of the few subjects where you don’t need nuance so the good technical aspects of his filmmaking doesn’t just wash out in all the blood and gore. All you have to do is cook up a story in the Trek universe where his filmmaking style would be an asset (hint: have the story revolve around killing fascists), don’t give him complete control, and make him work in tandem with Star Trek old hands like Brannon Braga or Jonathan Frakes and I honestly think you’d end up with something good.
Personally, I think Star Trek is good enough that it deserves more and more interesting film treatments than it’s gotten. Tarantino Trek would upset a lot of people just because it wasn’t an anodyne feel-good PG movie, but if it was good, we could end up with other, better directors doing even more interesting things with Trek.
As much as I was fed up with “Batman: Hulks Revenge - Infinity Multiverse Edition, a Groot and Thanos Love Story” ten years ago, I can’t deny that they’re popular titles. I just hope that movie makers will shift back to originality at some point.
But for now, due to the shift in how media is consumed, they’re unlikely to go for anything that is not a safe choice, which sadly means that they’ll stick to sequels or renoots of established brands.
“But it’s a very expensive show and, in the eyes of Netflix, we didn’t attract enough of an audience to justify such an investment [for season three]. They took risks to get the show off the ground, gave me the means to do Mank the way I wanted to do it, and they allowed me to venture down new paths with The Killer [his next feature]. It’s a blessing to be able to work with people who are capable of boldness.”
Can’t exactly blame Fincher for that outcome. Jonathan Groff said as much, Mindhunters is Fincher. The creator of the show is part of its DNA. Would you really want Fincher to hand it off to someone and potentially pull a Dexter or GOT S8?
“But it’s a very expensive show and, in the eyes of Netflix, we didn’t attract enough of an audience to justify such an investment [for season three].”
Verbatim quote from the article. What do you think it means?
And the budget was a curse placed on him by a witch?
The man can’t be intrinsic to the show, and “part of its DNA,” and also absolved of the concrete reasons it got the usual Netflix treatment of two seasons and stone dead.
What do you mean? The budget is what it takes to make the show. It costs what it costs and the outcome is the show you all love. It’s David fucking Fincher and he is legendary, Netflix knows it going into the deal and of course it’s gonna cost them, as it should.
absolved of the concrete reasons it got the usual Netflix treatment of two seasons and stone dead.
Of course he can, for the exact reason you stated, it’s the Netflix usual schtick and MO. I’m sure Fincher’s scheduling, actor contracts etc are also a factor in the 3rd season not getting made, but I find it unreasonable to pin it all on Fincher.
Bottom line is, if Netflix wanted it made, they will find a way to get it made. The quote from Fincher suggested otherwise.
Responsibility doesn’t mean ‘only the good parts.’ The man made a show that cost a lot, for a tightfisted company that hands out third seasons approximately never, and delivered an incomplete story in two seasons. Who else on the face of god’s green earth is at fault for fans expecting a third season they definitely won’t get?
So you are expecting David Fincher to make a smashing 3rd season for a vastly lower budget, automagically get everyone and their grandma to tune into the show, make Netflix a profitable company again, fix everyone’s scheduling conflicts and close all negotiations, all the while fulfilling rest of his contract obligations to make other films like Mank + The Killers?
Anything else? Why not bring peace to the Middle East and eliminate COVID? /s
Everything you said suggests you have very little understanding of how any of this works and you’re just airing grievances of how Fincher is “failing” your weird expectations.
I’m not expecting anything except consistency on your part. You, personally, here, now, said: can’t blame him for the outcome.
Why.
How.
It was entirely under his control.
It was a tiredly predictable situation.
What other human being could possibly be to blame for this outcome, moreso than the guy who italicized-for-emphasis IS the show?
Instead of answering, you’ve chosen to make up a conversation you’d rather be having, with some imaginary idiot who says a bunch of things I sure didn’t.
Listen, there are plenty of things in life that are NOT ENTIRELY under one person’s control, ESPECIALLY a content deal like this. Read the quote again:
"But it’s a very expensive show and, in the eyes of Netflix, we didn’t attract enough of an audience to justify such an investment [for season three]."
In case it wasn’t clear, I’ll spell it out for you: Netflix does not want to renew Mindhunters S3 because it costs too much and doesn’t make them enough money. Netflix made a bet with S1, S2 but folded when it comes to S3. And you still want to pin this 100% on Fincher?
It was a tiredly predictable situation.
Is it now? I guess Netflix should snatch you up as a VP for Da Future since you’ve readily predicted the whole thing with your crystal ball. Or I propose a more likely scenario: a hindsight of 10/10 because you’ve completely misread the situation?
What other human being could possibly be to blame for this outcome, moreso than the guy who italicized-for-emphasis IS the show?
Uh… the powers that be at Netflix? Plenty of people there are involved in the decision. Take your pick.
Listen, just because you are unhappy with the outcome of the situation, doesn’t change the reality that this is closer to a partnership situation than David Fincher calling all the shots. It’s just not how things work. But continue to play it off like Fincher some how victimized you and owe you something, if you like.
just because you are unhappy with the outcome of the situation
I’ve never seen this show. I’m probably never going to. Apparently I wouldn’t be getting a complete story anyway, and for reasons yooou have outlined, that aspect is the director’s fault. He had two seasons to tell a complete story. He did not. He did not, knowing full well Netflix doesn’t like doing third seasons. He did not, knowing his show was unusually expensive and complicated. He did not, knowing the viewership wasn’t about to skyrocket from the known figures for season one.
And for some reason you said he’s not to blame for the incomplete story he told.
Are you suggesting he’s an idiot? Because even idiots knew about Netflix’s two-season limit. It did not sneak up on him. It was tiredly predictable. It was, and remains, the most likely outcome for any Netflix series lucky enough to get a second season. No crystal ball is required for this basic pattern recognition. Sneer all you like; it is common knowledge.
Cliffhanger endings at the best of times are a frustrating gamble against cancellation. Creators are as responsible for them as they are for every the rest of their story.
Okay, you’ve gotta be jerking me around. You can’t actually be serious. And you haven’t even seen the show, so I don’t even know what you’re on about.
I’ll just leave you with this - Mindhunters had two FANTASTIC seasons and were setting up for bigger stories to tell. The scope of the two seasons are already huge and a season 3 is completely not out of the question, i.e. they are not milking it just for the sake of continuing the show. And remember, these guys were making this back in 2017 so I guess you are wiser than them for being in 2023 and knowing more about their future?
Sneering harder won’t make Netflix’s long-running habit any less predictable.
All I’m on about is what you’ve said. You refuse to say Fincher is responsible for the state of the show: incomplete and dead. Even though he’d be an idiot to expect a third season, knowing his budget and viewership numbers, and he is so thoroughly in charge of writing that he IS the show.
And now it sounds like you are trying to cope with the show being stone dead, by suggesting a third season is “not out of the question.” To paraphrase an annoying comment I recently saw: are you expecting everyone and their grandma to come running, so he can fix everybody’s schedule on a vastly lower budget?
I still blame Fincher for using season 2 to set up season 3 and then give us nothing. Given Netflix’s track record and Fincher not being some noob, he should have made sure each season had no whole-story dangling threads. I would settle for a short story tying it up at this point, he could do that.
This should be standard practice when a show is cancelled prematurely: give it a movie to wrap it up. That at least gives your show the reputation of being finished so that others might actually want to watch it in the future.
It’s a great thought, but if Netflix cancelled a show for “poor viewership performance”, does it make sense to expect them to fund an entire movie instead?
I would settle for a short story tying it up at this point, he could do that.
I disagree - I prefer that Fincher do his job, tell the story the best way possible instead of trying to force everything into a single season or two for “closure”.
I also think the only reason why you feel this way is BECAUSE Fincher took his time to make two fantastic seasons and a killer cliffhanger. Had he not done that, folks here would probably be complaining about how Mindhunters is a rushed, crammed, underachieving show and not of the quality that we come to expect of Fincher. It would be a completely different show and not the premise we are basing the discussion on.
I’m glad it’s a quality show but it’s not quality because of the season 2 subplot that ended up going nowhere and leaving viewers dissatisfied. That’s my problem with it. He’s in the business long enough and Netflix have this pattern long enough that he should know better than to do that.
"But it’s a very expensive show and, in the eyes of Netflix, we didn’t attract enough of an audience to justify such an investment [for season three].
It’s like Netflix has never heard of a “loss leader”. People don’t pay exorbitant subscription fees to watch the latest Project Runway knock off show.
I also find it difficult to believe it’s more expensive than the average TV drama, considering Fincher already has a development deal with the network.
I also find it difficult to believe it’s more expensive than the average TV drama, considering Fincher already has a development deal with the network.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but Fincher is very particular about his shots, and as such there is a metric shit-tonne of CGI in both seasons of mindhunter. There's a few videos on youtube that demonstrate it. Again, I don't think that would inherently make it way more expensive than the typical, but his vision comes with a price tag.
It’s like Netflix has never heard of a “loss leader”. People don’t pay exorbitant subscription fees to watch the latest Project Runway knock off show.
Netflix is notorious for spending a metric fuckton of money to the point that a great deal of their shows are “loss leaders” (and usually followed by prompt cancellation). The “Project Runway” comparison is irrelevant - although Netflix has plenty of trash reality shows, by no means that’s all they do.
I also find it difficult to believe it’s more expensive than the average TV drama, considering Fincher already has a development deal with the network.
I don’t have a good sense whether Mindhunters would be expensive or not, but my anecdotal experience says it’s not a mainstream show. It’s just not the hits like Stranger Things, Wednesday or perhaps the One Piece that Netflix needs to survive. 1899 is another victim of the Netflix gambles - an extremely stylish and intricate show that died a premature death, even though it launched to great reception.
Saw it tonight and really enjoyed it. It owes a lot to Ghost in the Shell, but it’s been 30 years so it’s no issue for me. It’s a tight cyberpunk noir buddy conspiracy flick. Recommended.
In the discussion posts for X-Men '97 I also share the stream link for where people can watch it. That’s basically the digital equivalent of sharing a link for ticket purchases. Ultimately I do that so it’s easier for people that are interested to follow-up and access the media.
On reflection I suppose you’re right it’s an ad but any sort of promotion is technically an ad, so I guess based on that almost every post in this community so far would qualify (release news, trailers, etc.).
If it actually bothers people, I’m willing to have a meta discussion about the future of this community and where we draw the line about what type of ads that we do or don’t want.
I’m 2 episodes in and enjoying it, and I know basically nothing about the games. The exposition has been pretty good at showing non-game-players like me roughly what the different groups of people are about.
I’m only two episodes in as well. So far not bad, but still little things that bugs me which are common with almost every show nowadays. Just little details with costume and set design, like barrels of radioactive waste still having bright blue and yellow paint and no rust after 200+ years. Just a sign that they were pretty lazy with set design.
Kind of feels like they are dumping it. Wednesday release and all episodes at once, seems like a strategy for the numbers to look better in the first weekend.
I want this to be good. And I think there’s enough variety to the content that they have plenty of creatuve license to take the story and characters where they want to go. It’s not like they can fuck it up so bad, like by having Master Chief take off his helmet, or by having Julia kill Vicious, or pick your atrocious adaptation example and put it here.
It’s been a few days since this comment, but I think now that the review embargo has lifted and the premiere has happened, it seemed to be more of a strategy to take advantage of the positive press to build some momentum. They got good feedback at a few screenings at various festivals, and the reviews have now been revealed to be largely positive. So maybe they wanted to shorten the time between reviews being published and for people to actually watch it.
And they also got the news that California has approved some tax breaks for filming season 2 in California, so it sounds like they’re probably going to officially greenlight the second season soon.
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