My #Java project goes on, as a learning practice preparing for $newJob. I have, on purpose, excluded any frontend frameworks, just plain old HTML and CSS, and some JS strictly when needed. I build my templates with JSP, and I'm not using any backend framework. A bit more work? Maybe. But it's crystal clear, less bloated, and so fast! Plus, I get to see behind the abstractions, implementing models, services, factories, servlets, utils, etc. all by myself. In other words: I'm having fun. :)
@array 👍 for giving it a try. For private projects I ended up doing mostly that, except I started using Typescript and now JSP. And the benefits are as least as you describe a) you know what the software is doing, b) less bloat.
If you're curious, here are some more thoughts: https://miamao.de/blog/2023-04/08.Software_Frameworks.html
@HaraldKi I 100% agree with this and your blog post, thanks for sharing. I've been bitten by, say, trying to override Bootstrap rules, or trying to upgrade the npm deps for a Express+Vuetify project weeks later after starting such project and everything breaking... Java is, I believe, more "boring" in that sense. ;)
That said, I was taught straight "vanilla" web tech in my AD, and though I like, say, Laravel, the "magic" you mention, and to rely on so many moving parts... It's a trade off. ;)
@HaraldKi For CSS in particular, I very much prefer straight CSS rules. I have a complete control (well, to a point; CSS is as easy as it's really difficult to get right!) on my views, up to any detail. And JS, sure say Vue makes some things more straightforward, but writing vanilla JS puts you, again, in control, no magic here (dynamically inserting data with JSP apart), and for a pet project more than suffices. Plus I've noticed how fast it is, compared to the Node/Vue project...
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