Comments from people who have never had real exposure to the political system are useful as tits on a fish.
Being an MP or MLA is an absolute grind. Even more so now with myriad anonymous threats being levied at not only you but your family. They have some reimbursements, but inevitably end up spending some of that pay on expenses.
And for the most part, they aren't rich.
Here is the list from Manitoba MPs:
Niki Ashton NDP university lecturer
James Bezan CPC Rancher, crop adjuster
Ben Carr Lib Teacher, consultant
Raquel Dancho CPC --
Terry Duguid Lib Non-profit organizer
Ted Falk CPC Construction company owner
Leah Gazan NDP Lecturer
Kevin Lamoureaux Lib ATC assistant & Military
Branden Leslie CPC --
Larry Maguire CPC Farmer, Lobbyist
Dan Mazier CPC Pres Keystone Agricultural Producers
Marty Morantz CPC Lawyer
Dan Vandal Lib Middleweight Boxer, Social worker
Bezan (CPC), Falk (CPC), Maguire (CPC), Mazier (CPC) and Morantz (CPC) are pretty well off. The rest are doing okay, but hardly rich.
Dancho (CPC) and Leslie (CPC) went from school right into politics.
A former MP that I new pretty well was a teacher and served on a small city council, an unpaid position in those days, before getting into federal, and then provincial politics. He was the hardest working person I knew.
He got calls at all hours as a federal MP regarding garbage pickup and street plowing FFS. Some constituents were completely clueless as to what level of government does what. He'd listen and try to direct them to the right people, and the only thing he got in return was abuse.
Did you know that almost every MP/MPP/MLA, and certainly every Conservative MP/MPP/MLA, is already independently wealthy and doesn’t really care about their salary?
Bitching about MP salaries is a big red herring that just further gatekeeps representative government by ensuring that only people who are already wealthy will run.
I mean, it’s basically impossible for young and/or poor people to run for office today, since you need both time and money, which no one who isn’t independently wealthy, has. Take time off work and go into debt in order to run for office? Hahaha fuck no. This tempest-in-a-teapot just makes it worse.
It definitely is a dumb emotional issue in the grand scheme of things, but I feel like I could get by on $194K per year if I were elected MP without being independently wealthy.
Then we should stop referring to it as a democracy because clearly it functions as a plutocracy, a government of the wealthy and a system that works on wealth and power instead of the will of the people.
I don’t really see the logic here. They’re already wealthy so who cares if they get a raise? All the more reason they don’t need one, it’s so out of touch with the rest of the country.
The logic is that they’re all rich because a regular Canadian can’t afford to be an MP - if we raise MP salaries we’ll open the door for regular people to compete without significantly impacting the wealth of current MPs.
I’m confused, I thought the issue was that regular Canadians can’t afford to run for MP. I find it hard to believe anyone would struggle to live on nearly $200,000 after being elected. Are you suggesting people would be incentivized to go into debt campaigning for the chance to be elected if their potential future wage was a little higher? There has to be a better use of that money, even in an elections context. Why not some form of funding for “low income” candidates, possibly a loan that’s partially forgiven based on votes? I don’t know what the solution is, but I just can’t see how voting yourself a raise (especially on the same day as unpopular tax hikes) can be seen as anything other than tone deaf.
I would gladly pay them each a million dollars per year if it meant we got a House full of outstanding MPs. These are the people running our country, FFS. Complaining about MP pay is incredibly shortsighted. What we need to focus on is removing barriers to running for Parliament so that we can get better candidates that better represent Canadians.
No, we really aren’t. Not only do many highly qualified people make more than that, but the job also requires you to put your career (and pretty much your whole life and family) on hold. 200k is not that much when looked at more rationally (or comparing it to private sector jobs with similar requirements and high pressure) but we live in a land of crabs in a bucket eager to pull others down to the lowest level possible.
Absolutely, especially with the emboldened right wing over the past few years. Nobody I know has been personally targeted to any great degree, but it’s definitely bad out there.
Join a party and choose someone better to run for MP, work to get that person to get elected.
Now you aren’t going to have a say in who represents other communities (they decide for themselves), but you most definitely can have more of a say in who represents yours. But complaining on the internet won’t accomplish this, you will need to put in some effort.
I am member of a party and I personally know several candidates. That’s how I know how high the barriers are. As @psvrh said in another comment here, the system is set up in a way that makes it very difficult for anyone other than people who are effectively “retired”, whatever their age. And then we have the gall to complain that most politicians are out of touch with the average Canadian? Of course they are! It’s nearly impossible for the average person to run, let alone coordinate the requirements of the job if they manage to win. That’s how we end up with weirdo oligarchs like JT and PP who are completely divorced from your or my reality — they’re the only ones who are able to make it through the system as it’s currently set up. Harping about their salary is irrelevant because they don’t need it. They could be paid $0 and they would still want the job because all they care about is power and fame. Low-ish salaries only hurt the “middle-class” candidates — the accountants, professors, small business owners, etc.
If you can’t influence these people how would you go about influencing people to vote for you?
Seems like you might be projecting a little bit here. You want it to be you that has the fame and the power instead of them. You’ve indicated how you’re incapable of influencing others, and you only think in terms of power and notoriety. You equate democracy to an oligarchy. Why would I want to support your candidacy over the candidacy of someone else?
You’re so laughably off-base with this comment that I will no longer waste my time here. I’m not sure why you pulled a bunch of random insults and assumptions out of your ass rather than engage constructively.
There’s no point in having incredibly qualified MPs if they’re all whipped on every vote. And that’s the way Canadian politics works - an MP is just a glorified seat filler.
Get us an electoral system that breaks up the majority rule and allows MPs to actually represent their constituents, and I’ll fully support a gratuitous salary.
For now, I think paying the median wage in Canada would serve just fine to try to motivate these mushrooms to improve the working conditions of the 99%.
I’ve seen quite a few posts and articles recently citing the Canadian Taxpayer Federation. I want to provide some information about who the CTF is, according to Wikipedia:
The Canadian Taxpayers Federation (CTF; French: Fédération canadienne des contribuables) is a federally incorporated, non-profit organization in Canada. The Federation describe as a populist “citizens advocacy group” but critics accuse it to be an astroturf organization.
They have 5 members, or board of directors, who decide the direction of the organization. Many of their directors go on to or come from conservative, separatist, or far-right political parties. A number have gone on to be editors for right wing media such as the Toronto Sun and the National Post.
So when they say "x% of Canadians disagree with [liberal policy], just keep in mind who their respondents are and what the organizations here to do.
The Leger poll asked Canadians if they support or oppose the upcoming MP pay raise. Results of the poll show (totals may be slightly off due to rounding):
62 per cent strongly oppose 18 per cent somewhat oppose 12 per cent somewhat support 2 per cent strongly support 7 per cent don’t know
I'm not Canadian and I don't know the details of the situation, so excuse me if I'm wrong on this, but I think MP pay is a complex issue. It's easy to say "they get paid way more than the average person, of course they don't need a pay rise" but I think it's important to find a balance between that and paying enough that becoming an MP is an appealing option for intelligent, driven people. If they have a choice between an median salary as an MP and 15x the pay in the private sector, the most brilliant people are going to be drawn towards the private sector purely for financial reasons.
It's also important that they're given enough financial security that there's no risk of their finances being used as leverage against them. Some politicians will always just be corrupt and open to bribery or "lobbying", of course, but you don't want politicians that don't have their own money from other sources being put in compromised positions because of their finances. And you don't want politicians looking for other sources of income rather than focusing on their primary job.
Like I said, I don't know the details. Maybe Canada has already found a good balance - where it's already appealing to the best and brightest, and where their no risk of financial issues for MPs - and MP pay rises would be unnecessary. I just thought it was worth mentioning the fact that there can be some nuance to the situation!
It’s a complex issue. I dont think there’s enough money in the world to prevent someone from being bribed since literal billionaires still desire more money. I also don’t know if knowledgable individuals would become a politician even if it paid more than the private sector. An expert in the private sector is only criticized by other experts. When an expert becomes a politician their main critics are idiots who think they know better.
I truly think that anyone who wants to be a politician is unfit for the job. I’ve heard a unique idea of a “lottocracy” where government positions work like jury duty. Everyone has to serve in government for a short time once in a while. It sounds crazy but so does letting a bunch of corrupt sociopaths make the rules.
I truly think that anyone who wants to be a politician is unfit for the job. I’ve heard a unique idea of a “lottocracy” where government positions work like jury duty. Everyone has to serve in government for a short time once in a while. It sounds crazy but so does letting a bunch of corrupt sociopaths make the rules.
Lottocracy would be awesome in combination with very high MP salaries.
The old George Carlin quote applies. Think of how dumb the average person is, and then think about how half of the people are dumber than that.
Besides that one of the roles of a politician is they need to be able to clearly explain an issue to the public. Most people won’t be able to do this.
Besides our system requires that ever MP win the majority of the votes in a community. If a community is choosing a sociopath to represent them, there isn’t going to be any better way to prevent crazies from getting power. Mostly the problem is people thinking posting complaints on the internet will solve issues rather than getting involved at the community level.
Our system is designed around people working at the community level, if people were willing to put more effort into their community they would have more influence over politics. But the internet makes people feel like they shouldn’t do that so they complain on the internet instead and then complain about their internet complaints aren’t accomplishing anything.
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