[Rant] I swear to fucking god. Windows is harder to use than Linux. Have any of you ever USED Windows lately? Holy fuck.

I’m helping a family member build a pc. He wanted to use Windows because “Linux can’t play games” despite me having a perfectly good gaming laptop running Linux that runs all my games, even graphically intensive ones.

2 days later, no game has been played yet. We can’t even get steam to start. I even installed Arch on a sata ssd I donated just to verify the pc parts actually work (took less than an hour). It took 1 and a half days to even get the Windows 11 installer to get past like the 3rd screen.

Fucking fuck. Dealing with all this fucking bullshit is far worse than not being able to play a few trashy anticheat pay 2 win games. The anti Linux circlejerk is real.

Semi-Hemi-Demigod,
Semi-Hemi-Demigod avatar

When you get it working it's just so cumbersome to use. I do most of my work on servers and doing anything with a Windows server is a pain in the ass. Want to restart something? Open an RDP session, wait for it to load, open the Services, wait for it to load, filter through thousands of services to find the one you want, fucking right-click on it and pick restart.

Compare this to Linux where you get a snappy SSH shell and restart it with one command.

And then there's the goddamn Windows Event Viewer. Can't have log files being, ya know, files right? No, gotta put them in this application on the server, that you have to view in the GUI, and show it alongside all the other logs so you have to filter by service. Most of the time I just export them to text files just because it's easier to process them on a sane OS.

ParkingPsychology,

This is more about your windows knowledge than windows. All the stuff you're mentioning can easily be done remotely with powershell remoting.

Also, I often just SSH to windows servers. Works fine, has been like that for years now.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/openssh/openssh_install_firstuse

Semi-Hemi-Demigod,
Semi-Hemi-Demigod avatar

I still have to log in via fucking RDP to set it up. Why do they even have a desktop environment on a goddamn server?

Also, Windows Event Viewer still blows

BaldProphet,
BaldProphet avatar

The default installation option for Windows Server is without a desktop environment.

Semi-Hemi-Demigod,
Semi-Hemi-Demigod avatar

Then why has every Windows admin I’ve ever had to deal with use the GUI?

ChoccyMilk,
ChoccyMilk avatar

Because that's how most people are taught.

You can use PowerShell to do more than the GUI can most of the time. Both locally and remotely.

Semi-Hemi-Demigod,
Semi-Hemi-Demigod avatar

It’s not most of them, it’s literally all of them. In the decade or so I’ve been doing enterprise software support I have never seen a Windows admin use SSH, nor met one who wasn’t flummoxed at the notion of a CLI, nor worked with any Windows server that didn’t have a GUI.

ChoccyMilk,
ChoccyMilk avatar

As one of those Windows admins who uses all of these things, I'd have to say it can't quite possibly be all of them...

Semi-Hemi-Demigod,
Semi-Hemi-Demigod avatar

I imagine if you’re able to figure out a CLI you can also read a log, do some googling, and figure things out on your own instead of calling me.

But there are depressingly few of you. So few that it took me until now to learn that Windows even has SSH.

ParkingPsychology,

I still have to log in via fucking RDP to set it up.

Nah you don't. I've made plenty of headless installations for windows. You think everyone with a datacenter with hundreds of windows servers logs in to each of them with RDP? You can do it with an unattended.xml file. Which is harder to do than what I had to do to make a headless raspberry pi ubuntu server. By a lot, although if you look long enough, you might be able to copy someone else's unattended.xml.

Also, Windows Event Viewer still blows

Yeah, it's... an acquired taste. You can actually script it. But it is harder than string manipulation, since the events are all objects, not strings.

Then why has every Windows admin I’ve ever had to deal with use the GUI?

Cause I'm lazy.

Semi-Hemi-Demigod,
Semi-Hemi-Demigod avatar

You think everyone with a datacenter with hundreds of windows servers logs in to each of them with RDP?

All of the customers I've dealt with professionally who use Windows generally start with pre-configured VMware or similar images that they then deploy, and then configure with RDP. I have literally, in over 20 years of professional work, never seen a Windows sysadmin ever use SSH.

In fact, when they are forced to use a Linux server most of them will set up VNC to get into it rather than use SSH. WHY?????

Yeah, it's... an acquired taste. You can actually script it. But it is harder than string manipulation, since the events are all objects, not strings.

Gotta love Windows: Files aren't files, dates aren't dates, logs aren't logs.

Cause I'm lazy.

Which is strange to me because using a GUI is so much less efficient than a CLI. Which makes me think Windows' CLI is not nearly as good as even bash.

Also, if you're wondering these are the only complete instructions for setting up SSH login with key pairs without using RDP that I could find on the entire Internet.

HellAwaits,

I’m a daily Linux user and I despise windows, but I have a hard time believing this bullshit. I know it’s fun to fuck on windows, but either you did something crazy wrong or you’re just ranting about something on windows that doesn’t actually exist.

zer0,

I have a hard time believing you are a daily linux user

CupDock,

People have trouble installing Windows? You enter a license key and click next a couple times.

raltoid,

It’s a joke post. Which makes it extra funny, and quite sad, how many of the comment seem to think it’s serious and are unironically chiming in with complaints.

OPs username is “Peter Poopshit”, I wouldn’t take anything they post seriously.

Default_Defect,
@Default_Defect@midwest.social avatar

I saw SatansMaggotyShitFart or something like that making normal conversation yesterday.

PeterPoopshit,

Try doing it on a b650 motherboard that’s so new the windows installer doesn’t even have the correct ahci drivers

daxter,

I bought a Ryzen 7 7800X3D and an Asrock X670E, I was upgrading and just transferred my Windows install but still… No issues.

I’m no huge fan of Windows, but it sounds like you had (No offense) PEBKAC errors.

ForbiddenRoot,

I’m no huge fan of Windows, but it sounds like you had (No offense) PEBKAC errors.

I think so too and no offense meant to OP as well.

I am an early adopter of all things tech and so I had a Gigabyte Xtreme X670E mobo on pretty much day 1 to go with a 7950X. Everything worked fine on both Windows 11 and Linux despite being a pimped-up mobo and brand new CPU. At this much later date, OP’s B650 mobo should be working without a hitch, especially with Windows (and almost certainly with Linux as well).

acockworkorange,

So a similar experience as that of Linux? /s

bob_wiley,

deleted_by_author

    •
    PeterPoopshit,

    Gigabyte apparently. They have drivers on their website. Windows 11 just wanted to be extremely picky about the storage device I used. There was probably a cd with drivers in the motherboard box but who tf has a cd drive these days? Just formatting ntfs on any flash drive is apparently not good enough. Also, no matter which version of the drivers I used, unchecking “hide incompatible drivers” was the only way to make anything ever show up. I’m 100% sure I was using the correct ones for the exact motherboard model and revision number.

    mexicancartel,

    He said it has windows drivers, but windows don’t have its drivers in its installer

    zer0,

    Same on many linux distros but without having to enter a license key

    SloganLessons,
    SloganLessons avatar

    Sorry, could you repeat that? Slower, if possible

    PMmesexypajamas,

    People have trouble installing Windows? You enter a license key and click next a couple times.

    overzeetop,
    @overzeetop@lemmy.world avatar

    They’re wrong, of course.

    You don’t have to enter a license key.

    delirious_owl,
    @delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

    Nah you have to spend at least an hour researching how to not create an account (spoiler: ther is no option, you just have to not connect it to the internet)

    dream_weasel, (edited )

    You missed the part where you either sign in with your Microsoft account or cut your Internet, remove the webcam, fake your own death, and do the secret tap code in the bios to just have the OS without letting Microsoft into your butthole.

    mestari,

    Windows 11 doesn’t force you do any of that. Just skip the sign in. Your points were valid in 8/10 era but no more.

    const_void,

    Not true. 11 very much still forces you to use an MS account.

    Bobert,

    Very much doesn’t my guy.

    LUHG_HANI,
    @LUHG_HANI@lemmy.world avatar

    Home won’t let you do domain join, I think you have to go halfway through setup then select local account.

    Bobert,

    Why would absolutely anyone on this sub install Home? Microsoft themselves make a multi-edition .iso available on their website. And funnily enough now, Microsoft supports the hosting of massgravel. Should it take as many steps as it does two make a local account? No, but it’s literally two extra clicks.

    LUHG_HANI,
    @LUHG_HANI@lemmy.world avatar

    We are talking about a product not for ourselves. Pro is twice the price of home as well.

    zenharbinger,

    There is a secret command you can do to setup without Internet. But they hide it on the startup command line.

    On the “Oops, you’ve lost internet connection” or “Let’s connect you to a network” page, use the “Shift + F10” keyboard shortcut.

    In Command Prompt, type the OOBE\BYPASSNRO command to bypass network requirements on Windows 11 and press Enter.

    myersguy,

    You can just enter a fake Microsoft account and password. When it doesn’t work, it gives the option to continue with an offline account (or at least whatever version I installed did)

    acockworkorange,

    So basically what @dream_weasel just said.

    zenharbinger,

    sure, 7 months ago

    acockworkorange,

    Oh sorry, I don’t know how I got on this old post.

    jecht360,
    @jecht360@lemmy.world avatar

    It depends on the version, but yes, it does. It’s especially a problem on prebuilt machines and laptops. It is incredibly annoying to work with in a corporate environment. Our helpdesk tech comes to me with issues related to this probably three times a week. I gave up with work arounds and we just have a throwaway Microsoft account now.

    IverCoder,

    Rufus has workarounds for the mandatory login.

    jecht360,
    @jecht360@lemmy.world avatar

    I’ve seen that before, but when I proposed that as a solution it was shot down due to being unsupported by Microsoft. I just wish they had an OEM option to skip it.

    riskable,
    @riskable@programming.dev avatar

    Who is this Rufus fellow? Is he like Tux?

    IverCoder,

    Windows app for flashing ISOs to your USB. It provides additional options for flashing Windows 11.

    myersguy,

    I just installed 11 recently. There isn’t a skip button anymore. I had to enter fake sign in details for it to give me the “offline” option.

    So it seems like their point may still stand.

    mestari,

    Someone pointed out that Pro version still doesn’t require sign in. I’ve only dealt with Pro and didn’t know it’s different than Home in this thing. Sorry for being overly confident.

    priapus,

    That’s not accurate. The new versions of Windows 11 make you restart the OOBE with a flag to disable the MS login requirement. His points also weren’t valid during the 8/10 era, because back then you could just click offline experience at the bottom left. You didn’t even need to disable WiFi, just don’t connect.

    Edit: Seems Pro lets you install without an account, home does not. Most of the laptops I’ve worked on come with home.

    mestari,

    Ah I’m sorry I’ve installed Win11 on several computers but they’ve all been Pro version. I didn’t know that Home is different.

    priapus,

    Nah its understandable. I had no idea it was different either.

    spare_muppets,

    Not true on Windows 11 home that ships with new hardware. You need to disable all network connections and run some terminal commands to set up a local account. It is not convenient at all. Granted you can easily add a local account, after you have set it up with a Microsoft account, but that sort of defeats the purpose.

    Eezyville,
    @Eezyville@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I just use the Konami code and it bypasses so that. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    ErrantRoleplayer,

    This is basically why I went to linux around the time of Vista. The amount of hurdles windows puts in your way is silly.

    However, it’s odd for the OS to work and Steam then not to work. I wonder if the windows store protections have been disabled?

    MangoPenguin,
    @MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    That sucks that it’s been such a pain.

    I can’t say I’ve ever experienced the same though, windows install is a breeze and very fast, and on W10/11 these days everything just basically works perfectly out of the box for gaming.

    espresso_con_panna,

    I recently just reinstalled windows on my gaming pc and arch on my laptop, and I completely agree with you. especially the fact that now windows 11 force you to sign in. I know it can be skipped, and average users probably wont care, but FUCK YOU MICROSOFT!

    archinstall is such a breeze, and in general for linux, I can control precisely what to install and configure it to be exactly how I like it, as opposed to windows I had to find some sketchy debloater scripts to remove all the craps, disable the telemetries, and hoping it doesn’t break anything.

    And if I break anything, linux always have detailed documentations, where as windows…its always some indian guy on youtube teaching you how to run windows troubleshooter and hand you more sketchy scripts

    Epzillon,

    As someone who helped friends/family build PC gaming rigs multiple times last year (2023) I understand what you’re coming from W11 installer is pure dogshit.

    Tbh tho, my dad always hated new Windows versions because he didn’t want to learn a new UI/UX, which I fine, but the windows experience isnt that hard to learn, even if it is different. Same thing with Linux, if you use GNOME/KDE/i3/hyprland/sway/<insert any DE/WM here> for the first time it won’t be easy to find all of the settings either.

    But the W11 installer in particular sucks ass. There is so many restrictions that try to prevent you from even installing it. The one rescue for me was downloading the Rufus USB ISO tool and letting it download the W11 installer itself and apply patches which removed all the ridiculous restrictions.

    I mean, you can even rub that shit in Virtual box if you want. My GF is literally running it on “unsupported hardware” according to Microsoft but windows updates and everything post-install is completely functional.

    Only reason Mictorsoft Philips wants the restrictions is to have a tighter grip on the ecosystem and limit end consumers from installing it themselves and pushing that part to other companies or retailers which they can buy finished products (laptops etc) from instead of licenses.

    Magister,
    @Magister@lemmy.world avatar

    I’ve been using both daily, for 25+ years. Windows is not hard to use, but harder to configure now, having multiple paths/ways to configure the same thing like settings, old control panel, command line, regedit, group policy, is sometimes shitty. Everything else works fine in win10 or 11.

    RichardButt89,

    This is absolute nonsense. Getting windows up and running is stupid easy.

    Aphroditusss,

    This thread has to be a bait

    Stuka,

    Sounds like the problem was between the keyboard and chair.

    captsneeze,

    Exactly. Layer 8 problem.

    Puffymumpkins,

    Ooh, gonna add that to my phrasebook

    What’s a Layer 8

    captsneeze,

    You’ll sometimes hear IT people use “Layer 8 problem” which is a reference to the OSI networking model. The model has 7 layers. It starts at layer-1, the physical layer (the literal wires that the signals flow through), and ends with layer-7, the application later (things like http, ftp, etc.).

    “Layer-8” isn’t technically part of the OSI model, but unofficially it refers to the human layer, or the user. When IT people are troubleshooting an issue, trying to identify where in the model the issue is happening, “layer-8” is a tongue-in-cheek way of saying “there isn’t an actual problem… the person is the problem”.

    Another good one is the “ID10T” error (read as “I-D-ten-T”), which looks a lot like “IDIOT” when written down. It means the same thing.

    zygo_histo_morpheus,

    I’d say that stuff like this happens less often on windows, but it’s also worse when it does because you have fewer resources to fix problems when you do run into them

    ThePac,

    How the fuck does anybody have trouble running Windows these days?

    mwguy,

    Some OEM’s really fuck up Windows, leaving it in a practically unusable state almost out of the box with the amount of shitware that’s on there.

    Additionally, for Windows, some hardware vendors do a poor job of ensuring working drivers get installed by default. Sometimes the wrong, but similar driver gets installed by Windows on a fresh install and it can really bork things up. The same can happen on Linux, but it’s easier to ignore a faulty driver at boot time with Grub and make sure the right one gets loaded. And truthfully I haven’t had to do that since like 2005.

    MrSilkworm,
    @MrSilkworm@lemmy.world avatar

    AtlasOS is your solution

    mwguy,

    Well, no. A fresh Linux install is my solution.

    RichardButt89,

    OP said this was a home build. Should be dead simple with a clean install.

    mwguy,

    Should be, but in the past I’ve seen Windows update, misidentify hardware and try to install the incorrect driver for it (last time I saw it was with a graphics card too). That could certainly cause some issues.

    terry_tibbs,

    Windows 10 LTSC is the way to go if you absolutely have to use Windows, I’d love to use Linux on my gaming rig but Assetto Corsa + my simracing hardware doesn’t play nice at all.

    Pringles,

    I’m upvoting this because it’s hilarious, but on a serious note, installing windows is so easy my granny could do it.

    The only thing, and I assume that’s where you struggled, is sometimes the formatting of the hd doesn’t want to work. In that case, a quick google will help you out, but also just format it quickly with diskpart and continue the installation.

    zipzoopaboop,

    It’s weird seeing niche comment areas with sensible real experience comments

    Redex68,

    This person is either cursed or idk what they were trying to do. Installing Windows literally couldn’t be easier, you don’t even need to think about partitions, you can just let it create them itself.

    I reinstall Windows every cca. 6 months to clear all the bloat i pick up, it’s really not that hard.

    szczuroarturo,

    I honestly found instaling Linux to be way easier than Windows, also suprisingly nvidia graphic card was easier to set up on Linux rather than Windows, beacuse pop os(And other sensible distros) Just bundle them with the os so it worked out of the box .

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