Florida Lawyer Sues Trump to Disqualify Him From 2024 Race

The 14th Amendment to the Constitution bans anyone who “engaged in insurrection or rebellion against” the U.S. from holding office.

A Florida lawyer is suing Donald Trump in an attempt to disqualify his current run for president. Lawrence A. Caplan’s Thursday lawsuit claims that the ex-president’s involvement in the Jan. 6 Capitol riot would make him ineligible to run again, thanks to the Constitution’s 14th Amendment—a Civil War-era addition aimed at preventing those who “engaged in insurrection or rebellion against” the U.S. from holding office. “Now given that the facts seem to be crystal clear that Trump was involved to some extent in the insurrection that took place on January 6th, the sole remaining question is whether American jurists who swear an oath to uphold the U.S. Constitution upon their entry to the bench, will choose to follow the letter of the Constitution in this case,” the lawsuit says, also citing Trump’s alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election results in Georgia. Legal experts say it’s an uphill battle to argue in court, since the amendment has hardly been exercised in modern history. “Realistically, it’s not a Hail Mary, but it’s just tossing the ball up and hoping it lands in the right place,” Charles Zelden, a professor of history and legal studies at Nova Southeastern University, told the South Florida Sun Sentinel.

archive link to South Florida Sun Sentinel article: https://archive.ph/1BntD

Gatsby, (edited )
@Gatsby@discuss.online avatar

It’s crazy that anyone would think he can and should be allowed to run for President again. The 14th Amendment is quite clear. And the man incited a violent insurrection to install himself as a dictator during what was a purely symbolic procedure. Trump lost, Biden won. Counting the electoral votes on 1/6 was a formality. There was no actual way for him to remain in office so he betrayed the nation by attempting to destroy democracy as we know it in this country. The only place he belongs in 2024 is ADX Florence.

twistypencil,

The problem is that he did everything he could to use language to make it arguable that he was saying things that incite

jennwiththesea,
@jennwiththesea@lemmy.world avatar

The question is how to enforce the 14th amendment. This suit looks like a decent attempt at it, that doesn’t require Congress to act. (Congress has way too many Republicans right now, who will not enforce the 14th amendment against one of their own.)

ineedaunion,

I mean, felons can’t even vote.

ech0,

This is what I’ve been saying. He’s a felon! Over 90 felonies! He’s can’t run for election.

doggle,

He hasn’t actually been convicted of any yet… technically not a felon until he’s sentenced, if I’m not mistaken

scottywh,

Felon upon conviction even before sentencing but otherwise correct.

ineedaunion,

I’m glad we have some educated people left in this world like you. Conservatives love worshiping law breaking facist pedophiles like Trump and backing Corporate conservative corporations that enable behavior like his. The Home Depot actively encouraged child molestation in the stores in Montana between their child trafficking high managers. I saw a store manager crack a bullwhip at one of his victims in Helena, while the HR and District manager laughed.

nutsack,

yea that should do it

assassin_aragorn,

Is this the Florida Man redemption arc?

DragonTypeWyvern,

Seems more like a preemptive strike in an attempt to discredit the claim early in a friendly district.

ghostBones,

Seems more like a preemptive strike in an attempt to discredit the claim early in a friendly district.

That actually makes sense. It’s plausible that it is strategic preemptive judge shopping. Success would create a protective precedent from the findings of a biased court. My reasoning is simple, if lots of the participants of the riot were charged with insurrection, then it logically follows that the person benefiting the most from the insurrection is likely guilty of it as well. The burden of proof should not be enormous to reach the top tier of that insurrection, because of public statements and suspicious neglect of duty to quietly support the effort. Things like wanting to remove magnetic weapon detectors to invite in armed insurrectionists should be a big clue.

Mamertine,

Let’s say this works and Trump is bad from holding office.

Would Trump consider paying the baton to Don Jr or Eric Trump? Is he capable of giving them that boost?

Then the bigger question is would the Kool aid drinkers accept the different Messiah?

BloodForTheBloodGod,

Hah. No. He’d never let someone else shine.

funkless_eck,

Don Jr, although lauded by the right, also doesn’t have what Trump has: an unerring ability to devote himself to the most simplistic and repetitive dogma in the face of all evidence and disagreement.

Part of Trumps success is to unwavering believe something, regardless of how misinformed, even when informed. Examples: “I use spray deodorant it didn’t affect the climate that day”, “I can change the weather report with a sharpie”, “windmills cause cancer”, “inject bleach to cure covid”, “health insurance only costs $20 a month.”

It’s part of DeSantis’ problem too that he couldn’t say something like “blueberry jam makes you a better lover in bed and strawberry jam makes democrats have more abortions” and mean it.

ebenixo,

This is the one. this time it will work.

UnbannableSneed,

Let the people decide his fate through a free and fair election

m0darn,

Is it your opinion that nobody should ever be disqualified from running for any elected office, for any reason?

UnbannableSneed,

Correct. The will of the people is integral to our democracy.

ineedaunion,

Felons aren’t allowed to vote bootlicker.

UnbannableSneed,

I’m sorry to hear you can’t vote, however, my point stands. If you don’t like democracy you shouldn’t live in a democratic nation.

m0darn,

Rule of law and peaceful transition of power are also pretty important to your democracy.

Do you support suspending the constitution to allow someone disqualified from election to take office?

Or do you just support amending the constitution?

UnbannableSneed,

If someone is constitutionally disqualified then they obviously can’t run for office. Trump has not been charged with insurrection or rebellion as per the 14th Amendment so he can still run.

m0darn,

What is the process for establishing if someone is barred from office by the 14th amendment?

UnbannableSneed,

Would they not have to be convicted of insurrection or rebellion?

m0darn,

Are those specific felonies?

m0darn,

Hey not to harrass you or anything, but you may find this comment chain informative:

kbin.social/m/news@lemmy.world/t/…/1969045

Cheers from America’s hat.

wasd4321,

Why are Americans so obsessed with disqualifying Trump? If you don’t like him then don’t vote him, simple

Telorand,
Telorand avatar

It's not that simple, thanks to the Electoral College. If electing a president was based on popular vote, the last several Republican presidents wouldn't have been elected.

But thanks to how the Electoral College works, getting elected is based more on strategically winning specific states. Texas, for example, has several deep blue cities with some of the largest populations in the country. Yet, all 50-something electoral votes go to Republicans, because Republicans win the popular vote in the state. The will of those millions of people is discarded and flipped due to the other areas voting differently.

LethargyTheGhost,

Because we didn’t vote for him and he’s still made his way into office. If you want inaction you should teach that lesson to yourself and stop posting

ineedaunion,

Felons aren’t allowed to vote. Bootlicker.

fne8w2ah,

A Florida Man with a functioning brain.

uis,
@uis@lemmy.world avatar

Florida men doing their thing

nucleative,

The groups that are calling for Trump to be disqualified are acting like a lynch mob. Think about the end result and how it could be used by nefarious future leaders who want to snuff out their competitors.

The very premise of “blocking Trump from running” is saying let’s give a judge - perhaps only a single judge (!) - authority to tell voters who they can and cannot vote for.

I’ll be the first to say that Trump should be in jail if he’s convicted for his crimes. But I don’t want any court to take away my right to put any name I want on that bllot, for any reason.

dball37,

There are rules about who can and can’t run. It’s not an open ballot.

nucleative,

These are black and white rules, not easily subject to debate. If you qualify, you qualify.

BigNote,

And if you don’t, you don’t. That’s precisely the point.

dball37,

14th amendment, section 3. That’s not black and white.

nucleative,

Yes that’s what most of the discussion revolves around, and the idea of who defines what an insurrection is and who’s guilty, because the amendments don’t define this. Some dictionary definitions seem to include minor behavior as mundane as running a protest or making a public statement of disagreement with the current government, which would likely vacuum up any person you’d ever want to vote for.

In the comment you replied to, I was thinking about these constitutional requirements:

-Be a natural-born citizen of the United States -Be at least 35 years old -Have been a resident of the United States for 14 years

Which I think we can agree are either true or false for Amy given candidate and difficult to argue factually. That isn’t true, however, of the 14th amendment concept, which is, in my argument, better left to the voters to decide rather than a small number of judges and lawyers.

dball37,

I don’t think it’s good to resort to the election to determine a complex legal ruling. It wouldn’t simply be ruling him eligible it not as the case would be in court. It would just make him president if enough people want him. There are many reasons that people pick who they vote for. I would prefer a ruling on the 14th amendment issue to be based only in that and made by people who understand constitutional law.

I understand your reservations about leaving that jn the hands of the judiciary, but for that type of thing I don’t think just letting the election decide is the appropriate course of action.

Franzia,

He led an insurrection. It’s in the constitution that you can’t run for office if you lead an insurrection.

nucleative, (edited )

Yes, he probably did, and that alone disqualies him from getting my vote and hopefully the majority too.

But consider that the founding fathers were insurrectionists. Consider that many figures in world history object to the ruling party’s ideas and are labeled insurrectionists because of it. It’s a tool of oppressors.

In fact, some might label any protestor who does a sit in or some other rebellious or obnoxious activity as insurrection. One of the dictionary definitions of insurrection is “The act or an instance of open revolt against civil authority or a constituted government.” The constitution of the US doesn’t offer a definition.

In many countries, politicians are suppressed by accusations of insurrection solely because they oppose whoever is in power at the time.

My argument is not that Trump is worthy of the job (he’s not), rather that I want this kind of decision in the hands of the voters, not a handful of lawyers and judges.

Franzia,

This is wonderful rhetoric and I’m glad you said it.

ineedaunion,

Felons aren’t allowed to vote. Pedo apologist.

Zink,

You can put whatever you want on your ballot. However, states have rules about which names they will print on the ballots as suggested potential votes. Having the legal process keep an enemy of the state off of a bunch of states’ ballots is a precedent I am totally cool with. Though I get what you’re saying because of course republicans will try to get the Democrat nominee disqualified if they think it’s at all possible.

It will be interesting to see how many write-ins he gets if he’s not on the ballot in various states. Or hell, even if he’s not the nominee in the first place.

moitoi,

I never saw this amount of energy to disqualify someone of a presidential election. (What is in this case good) It shows issues in the state itself and how the laws are made. It’s already systemic.

nicky7,

I’ve never seen this amount of energy to run in the presidential election from an unqualified con-man. And I don’t disagree with you on this showing issues in the state itself, but I suspect we may have different ideas on what those issues are.

meldroc,

Well, Trump only stands accused of 91 felonies, it’s not like he attempted a coup d’état or som… Oh, wait…

uis,
@uis@lemmy.world avatar

It’s not wagner-style at least

BigNote,

Unfortunately our system was not designed in the anticipation of someone like Trump together with the complete siloing of information ecosystems made possible by modern technology.

What we’re seeing is new in kind because both Trump and our information ecosystems are new in kind.

The founders also lived in a much more honor-based society wherein dueling was still very much a thing. Someone like Trump, a notorious liar and loud-mouthed braggart would have almost certainly been run through with a small-sword or shot while dueling. If he declined to accept a challenge to a duel, he would have been ostracized from polite society and effectively cut off from public office.

In other words, they expected that things like honor and decorum and the risk of being killed in a duel would provide for consequences not enumerated in the Constitution.

And they were right for over 200 years, then along came Trump and it turned out that such “customs and norms” were not enough.

We now see our old and very decrepit system --that was deliberately designed to be almost impossible to update – struggling with that fact.

CharlesDarwin,
@CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world avatar

I’d love to see this asshat removed from any chance of getting into office. The GOP will replace him with someone just as awful as far as policies and fascist tendencies, but hopefully they’ll be less appealing to the general electorate.

Think: DeSADIST. It was funny to watch how people reacted to his performance in that “debate”. He’s so unpleasant and smarmy, if he were to win the primary, I think he’s flame out so hard in the general.

HawlSera,

Trump is a cult of personality, once he goes, the next guy can be Trump In All But Name, and the fanbois won’t care

CharlesDarwin,
@CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world avatar

Very true. There are so many try-hards out there - people like Ronnie, Marge, and Qbert, and now Vivek, etc…I doubt that little d’s base will fall quite as hard for any of them.

Uncaged_Jay,

I don’t get it, why try to keep him from running? Especially if you’re a Democrat, letting Trump run would split the Republican vote and almost guarantee a Democratic victory.

Franzia,

Because I don’t think of politics as winning. My politics wins when the state feels comfortable applying rules to the elite.

Hangglide,

How would it split the vote? It’s a two party system.

Uncaged_Jay,

There are still 3rd parties in the US, a prime example in US politics that would equate to this would be the Election of 1912, where President Wilson won against the incumbent Republican, President Taft. The only reason Wilson won was because Roosevelt ran as a Republican adjacent candidate under the “Bull Moose” party, which effectively split the Republican vote and prevented Taft from getting all of the Republican vote.

If Trump runs again, it is likely he will be running as an independent candidate, which will split the Republican vote and allow the Democrats a sure win.

Nastybutler,

Why would he run as an independent when he’s the front runner for the GOP

Uncaged_Jay,

The powers that be (the old republicans) do not like him, they wouldn’t allow him to be the GOP candidate even if he succeeded.

BigNote,

They failed to stop him in 2016 and 2020, so I see no reason to think they’ll succeed in stopping him this time.

Out of curiosity, where are you getting this idea? Are there any reputable experts you can point to? I sure haven’t seen anyone arguing anything like this apart from you.

Not trying to be a dick, just asking.

Uncaged_Jay,

This might be a good place to start.

Powerpoint,

Traitors to your country shouldn’t get the opportunity to run

crwcomposer,

Dude is a lawyer from Florida, so he’s likely conservative and doesn’t want Trump to lose the election for the Republicans.

AngryCommieKender,

Keeping him from running accomplishes about the same thing. The cultists will refuse to accept any other Republican nominee, and will refuse to vote, calling it “rigged.”

Todd_cross,

A lot of people that a similar thing in 2016.

Chickenstalker,

In many other countries, insurrection gets you a nice brick wall and a blindfold. In America, you get to run for President (again).

Treczoks,

Not all countries are barbaric. Some just offer a long term stay in federal hospitality.

Blimp7990,

Not all countries are barbaric

but the US is, praise be

NABDad,

Only if you can’t buy your way out.

dragonflyteaparty,

Except the trial for the insurrection is just barely starting, not to mention all the other indictments. Yes, he wasn’t immediately locked up and should have been. Yes, he’s being treated differently because he’s rich, but it’s not like nothing is happening.

kristoff,

or a one-way trip from a window on the 10th storey of a building all the way down to the ground.

sheilzy,

For real. I’m really jealous that the courts in Brazil have already banned Bolsanaro from running for office for the next 10 years and Pakistan’s parliament ousted Khan for being ungenerous to the Ukraine conflict and then later the police arrested him for bribery. Those are supposedly developing countries but they are doing a better job of controlling their tyrannical despots than we are. Fortunately, like I keep saying, Trump has too much work cut out for him to effectively campaign with so many charges. He’s been in the lead, but I don’t know if he can stay that way.

Skates,

Those are supposedly developing countries but they are doing a better job of controlling their tyrannical despots than we are.

That’s… Really interesting tbh.

You’re equating being a developed nation with the best thing ever, and expecting that if you’re the most developed nation you are also the best at treating social issues, and are therefore a bit confused when you see how other less developed countries can treat these issues better.

But when we get right down to it, development has no real reason to also mean “just” or “lawful”, right? I mean - “developed” means having a good economy, right? And when googling about it, the Human Development Index(HDI) comes up as well. But if we break it down, having money doesn’t mean you’re a better person. We can all think of countries with money but with a bad track record in human rights, like Saudi Arabia. And regarding the HDI, the US is 20th in that, right between South Korea (who are constantly faced with a nuclear threat along the border) and Israel (who are currently involved in stealing another countries’ land and constantly persecuting that country’s people). So what does developed mean in this context? Because it sure doesn’t mean these countries should be able to sleep at night because they have no problems.

But skipping all that, what’s weird to me is that this mentality of “we’ve got a lot of money therefore we have a great country and society and we only make good decisions” is so ingrained in you, that it actually surprises you when your country is surpassed by other countries in some aspects.

And it’s nothing to do with you, sorry if I made it seem like I’m attacking you or something, because I’m really not. For lack of a better way to describe this, to someone from the outside it looks like you’re a victim of a cult who is slowly starting to recognize that not everything the cult leader has been saying is actually true. I guess what I’m saying is - the American/capitalist propaganda machine does such a good job of pushing the “best country in the world” narrative, that it’s really interesting to see the ramifications it has on people’s way of thinking about the US.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • politics@lemmy.world
  • slotface
  • kavyap
  • everett
  • Durango
  • osvaldo12
  • rosin
  • thenastyranch
  • DreamBathrooms
  • mdbf
  • magazineikmin
  • InstantRegret
  • Youngstown
  • ngwrru68w68
  • anitta
  • megavids
  • normalnudes
  • ethstaker
  • cisconetworking
  • tacticalgear
  • khanakhh
  • cubers
  • GTA5RPClips
  • provamag3
  • modclub
  • Leos
  • tester
  • JUstTest
  • lostlight
  • All magazines
    •