So far there’s subscriptions for cruise control, adaptive beams, various navigation options, apple/google integration and my favorite, dual-zone climate.
Wonder how much that ends up costing per month and how much that ends up costing over the lifetime of the vehicle.
Assuming the lifetime even matters when they decide to just cut off subscriptions at some point in the future to turn features off to drive you towards buying a new vehicle and dumping this one like a good consumer.
I mean. America’s isn’t doing much better on the engineering front. Ford and Chrysler issued the most recalls in 2023 apparently. GM is also in the top 10.
No doubt, though I would point to the US automakers being too busy being obsessed with annihilating worker power and unions over the last 50 years as the primary reason American cars suck. Instead of paying engineers to spend time innovating and improving their designs they paid harvard business assholes to micromanage workers and strategize how to shuffle vehicle plants around so that workers organizing for better treatment would be least likely to happen effectively.
The way I look at it (as a German car owner myself), you gotta be able to afford repairs, and you have to do maintenance. Too many people wait 10k miles to do an oil change and no car should be treated that way.
I totally agree. I’ve had my 2011 2.0 TDIe Audi A6 now for about 7 years. Never had major problems, though I specifically selected a diesel engine as the TFSI engines are crap. I also do pretty much all of.my own work so only pay for parts when something happens, which of course helps keep costs down.
If anyone is repairing or diagnosing your own vehicle in the WV group, make sure you get the VCDS software as it helps a ton! I got some cheap clone via eBay but it’s worked just fine for many years for me.
Just like a movie is already available for download on the Internet but you must still pay to download it. Unless yarrr not a fan of artificial scarcity.
But the movie is not on the computer in your house.
This would be closer to buying a house, and a washer/fridge are both installed, just turned off, until you pay extra to switch them on.
The hardware and software are already in the car, and you would have already paid for both when buying it. Adding a subscription to enable them after is just skimming off the top.
It might be a different story, if the price included them installing the relevant hardware onto the car separately, but not in this case.
We already built the expensive Internet infrastructure that allows any digital media, including movies, to be delivered to your computer for virtually $0 extra cost. However, even though the infrastructure was built you are “not allowed” to access the digital media unless you pay some arbitrary price.
In your example, having a washer/fridge installed in the house is not that different from having an Internet router installed in your house. In both cases the infrastructure is readily available and costs nothing to use but you cannot access the services for artificial reasons.
I’m obviously not defending Audi as I think it’s a ridiculous concept but this is already happening at a large scale.
However, the sole function of the internet infrastructure of your house is not exclusively for movie distribution. You can use it for other things, and do, so the example doesn’t quite line up.
Your example might be closer when it comes to rate limiting for ISP services. The network bandwidth that you could get from the actual hardware is often greater than what you paid for, and you only get extra if you pay the ISP more.
But even then, that analogy falls apart a bit, since there is a scaling cost to the ISP associated with you using the internet more. It actually costs them more to do that, since it puts extra load on their servers/network, which would both put wear on hardware, and require them to purchase more powerful hardware to account for the capacity.
Not so for Audi. The hardware and software are already in the car. They have no ongoing costs to pay associated with many of those systems, since they’re local to the car itself. Smartphone integration, I could see a case for, if they do it by routing the connection through their own servers, but not a lot of the other things, like the adaptive cruise control, or Carplay/Auto.
Or you can just purchase any of those features permanently
The subscription model for features on a car is shitty for a host of reasons, but at least they’re still offering the option to buy them outright like normal. If you really value ownership then at least you can purchase the car and buy these addons up front.
I’m going to go against the grain here and say I do see why they think doing this could be attractive to customers. I’d wager to say that ownership of their vehicle isn’t a priority, just look at how many people lease their cars now vs buying outright. This is a market that will have the car and replace it within 3 years. So these type of people may purchase upfront an extra they absolutely do care about and must have, but if there’s something else they’re a bit unsure of, they could leave it off, get the subscription for a month to try it, and then decide if they want to continue on a longer plan to keep the feature.
Problem with that is that it implies that you are the one purchasing the features for that vehicle. If the vehicle is sold as used then you unlink the VIN from your account so that the new buyer can register the VIN to them. Then the new buyer seems to have “nothing” and has to “purchase any of those features permanently” again.
With such a system in place, I could imagine that a proper Audi dealership can be authorized to “continue a permanent subscription” to a new used car buyer (or Audi can just offer those sorts of upcharges at the point of sale).
Regardless, permanent only likely applies to your ownership and not to the vehicle itself.
The subscription model for features on a car is shitty for a host of reasons, but at least they’re still offering the option to buy them outright like normal. If you really value ownership then at least you can purchase the car and buy these addons up front.
The problem isn’t just the subscription model itself, the problem is the means by which they enforce it: by infecting your car with DRM.
When you buy a thing, you’re supposed to own that thing, which means you have every right to modify it in any way you see fit – including to “unlock” any physical capabilities of it that aren’t enabled to begin with.
What these car companies – even ones offering to unlock your property for a “one-time” fee – are doing is trying to destroy your property rights, and that ought to be entirely unacceptable to everyone.
I hear you, but the vast majority of Audi customers just won’t care about this DRM or property rights on their car. If they’re leasing then it’s irrelevant as it’s never their car in the first place. It just won’t even be something that they even consider.
What their customers will care about is the fact that they don’t have to financially commit to getting an “optional extra” up front, but instead can pick and choose when they want to use it.
Yeah, that’s why the correct solution is legislative: the DMCA needs to be repealed and the practice of hijacking people’s property with DRM needs to be outlawed instead.
Yeah, I wonder what could transport me across ‘huge physical distances’ at a much greater speeds than cars, at a faction of the cost, and unimaginably smaller destruction to local & global habitats. I swear we had this tech at some point before strategic lobbying against it & ultimately defunding it (with no competition car industry profit margins soared, which is the issue og post focuses on). Unless you meant ‘huge psychic distances’, then lsd has desired speed.
But also short distances are a problem - cars are often a necessity within cities as well (especially with American mandated suburban zoning hellscape). Which is just stupid.
What makes financial sense does not necessarily make intrinsic sense.
As solution I am ofc referring to naked seagull riding. It’s fun, it’s aggressive towards other riders, no blinkers to use, many get killed in mid air collisions or as bystanders hit by cloaca bombs (since there are now no cars for birds to shit on & seagulls became giant). And they are fueled exclusively by fast food (to make them faster, duh).
Why would anyone sign up for that? Now you have your car payment AND the fucking subscription? Makes no damn sense. What happens when they inevitably shut down their cloud servers that keep your access to the features in the car turned on? You never own the thing.
If that was true, in the courts, then every jail broken iPhone user is a felon. Maybe that’s true, maybe not, it doesn’t matter because it’s unenforceable and the govt doesn’t give a fuck.
No one would sign up for that, but I bet that car maufacturers will make it the only model available. As for the shutting down of servers: something something small print
Dealerships love to sell cars by monthly payment. Subscriptions fit right into that model. Heated seats are just another $5 a month! So with <huge list of features> that monthly payment is only $330 a month….on a 9 year car loan. People will absolutely do this.
Update: Audi issued a statement noting that the upcoming 2025 A3 in the US will have “the same offer structure for Function on Demand as the previous 2024 model year.” That means only enhanced navigation with Audi’s Virtual Cockpit and adaptive cruise control will be offered as subscriptions. Dual-zone climate control and high-beam assist won’t be offered as subscriptions in the US. Specifics will be available closer to the A3’s launch in the US.
I can see the enhanced navigation being a subscription service, since it sounds like something that requires an external service to function. Adaptive cruise on the other hand…
Goodbye warranty then. Many manufacturers have already been doing that with chip tuning, which is also just a software modification. When you take your car in for service they read out the ECU to detect chip tuning, and your VIN gets flagged in their system if it has been modified. So if at some point in the future you make a warranty claim, you are SOL.
Then there’s also the technical barriers they’re putting up, locking them down so unauthorized software can’t be flashed to them (much like Apple’s iphone and ipad crap).
Just buy the audi and come to your local electrician, he will turn on all the functions, id rather die than let this shit happen. Tesla heated seates need subscription? Heres a 20$ dongle to turn it on forever. Hyundai remote start subscription? Here take this 80$ remote to start it forever. Bmw fake exhaust sound onley comes with M sports pack and costs over a thousand? Give me 10$ and ill turn that on and turn on everything else that is hidden.
As much as I’d love for people to do this, there’s probably a ton of software safeguards to prevent this. Even if you’d get around it, those greedy fuckers will undoubtedly void your warranty. And somehow that’s legal too.
Maybe? With my Mazda, activating the navigation system was a matter of spending $10 on an SD card with everything preloaded onto it. Disabling infotainment warnings, reenabling the touchscreen even when the car’s moving, and even adding CarPlay to a car that didn’t support it was just a matter of a USB stick that tweaked all those things.
Nope, they have no power to do this, than they would prosecute the people who create tools to do diagnostics, add keys, program modules. They have zero ground on this.
I guess you’ve been living under a rock and haven’t noticed the persecutions of folks making video game console modchips, John Deere fighting with farmers over who’s allowed to repair tractors (including an MOU that the media claims is “kind of” a win for famers, but nevertheless asserts that “modification of Embedded Software” is “illegal infringement” of John Deere’s intellectual property [sic]), etc.
Sure, nobody’s gone to prison for “jailbreaking” (which is already an absurdity that should never have become necessary in the first place) a car yet, but the DMCA Anti-Circumvention Clause is still the law of the land and unless that changes, it’s only a matter of time.
Because automotive industry is so big and wanted to do the same thing like other industrys, this law had to be passed RIGHT TO REPAIR. After this some xompanys like Jaguar, Ford, Peugeot put theyr programs for free online for everyone to use to repair their cars. Other made them payed but it was not a big sum. Now going in to 2015 when subscription stuff was picking up, we onley have Jaguar free. Others not onley made them more expensive but now you have to provide information about who you are and what you work, some even made you pay 15$ for 24h to let you connect to one vin number and just delete faults. But still you could and still can do anything you want to your car, Ive never heard anyone who got in trouble for moding theyr car. Expet when making changes to the odometer or the exhaust system/ eco system but thats another league. There are also standarts that dont let you change any light outside your vehicle but thats about safety. But talking about seat heating, remote start or other comfort functions, unless you want to have a gusrantee from your shop, nobody GIVES A FUCK what you do to your car.
Remote start trough an app is not possible to crack, but if you add a remote control like you have for a garage than it just sends a signal to start the car and doesnt use any services.
100% legal, you can loose your keys and go to a lockpicker and he would make you new keys and add them to your car. Its not legal id you do this to another car in the night and drive away with the car to sell it 😂
Perhaps, but that’s still a little different than selling a kit that replaces the factory equipment to replace the app and would depend on how exactly it was accomplished, after all those infotainment systems have license agreements, while I may be allowed to modify the software for my own head unit, providing it to others probably isn’t allowed, especially if I’m making a profit. So while it’s the kind of thing that should be legal, I’m guessing if anyone started selling kits to replace the dealer app with a third party one they’d be going to court.
Your talking like you cant buy a third party HU and put it in your car with a third party app. Nobody gives a fuck unless you want to have a service guarantee, but those now last 1-2 years and basicly doesnt repair anything.
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