“I’m really interested in the history of the great flood and how it explains how dinosaur fossils are so many layers down in the geologic column even though dinosaurs lived alongside humans only 6,000 years ago. Plus the the flood formed the Grand Canyon in only a few weeks.”
I like OP, this is my kind of person. Knowing stuff because it’s just fun and interesting to know stuff, and being willing to engage, share, and correct.
As someone who just really thinks its cool how an ancient civilization was able to become such a superpower with roads and infrastructure and then fall so harshly. 😢
It is. It’s impressive to me that the real founders of Christianity were 5 centuries behind their time. St. Paul was 5 centuries after Epicures, Aristotle, and Plato. This is really mind boggling. Imagine if someone from the Columbus voyages time traveled to modern times and within 4 centuries all of Western civilization was in flames mostly due to their actions. Over 99% of the written word of the Greeks and Romans were destroyed by the Church. Is there anything remotely comparable in history?
So you’re saying I’m weird because I love history for history’s sake and not any particular political reason?
I am interested in the world wars, among many other things. Everything from 1940s/50s Hollywood scandal and crime to The Bronze Age Collapse and lots of other stuff in between.
I majored in Near Eastern Classical Archaeology, but I never equated any of it with particular personal beliefs.
Hyperdefensiveness looks really bad. We all like stuff that has terrible fan bases. I’m into anime/manga/manhwa, video games, and I do enjoy history and learning from it. I so know many people who share the same description who are straight up nazis, misogynists, incels, etc.
If this is like the MIAC report, where it noted data on both right wing and left wing domestic terrorists and some of their tendencies. For left wing it mentioned environmentalists, socialists, communists etc. For right wing it mentioned 2A, Ron Paul, sovereign city, tax protestors etc.
In no way for either side did it say that having those tendencies was the same as being a terrorist, just that they tend to have those interests. Right wing grifters and broadcasters lost their fucking .inds to the point this fact based report had to be retracted.
If you can’t acknowledge your interests have terrible fan bases as well as good and upstanding ones, it makes you look like the terrible one angry at being called out.
It is not on the person being stereotyped to justify themselves. Like what you like, study what you want to study and don’t bully a person for being a nerd about something.
Seriously, is this the position you and OP want to be in? You want people to be walking on earth and feeling bad because they studied some subject and presumably were a bit happy because of it? You want to feel good about taking a harmless pleasure from someone else, and for what exactly? Because you didn’t understand it and felt dumb for a moment. Go look in a mirror and maybe reconsider your life.
Wow, you are amazing at missing the point. So let’s ask this, are there any people who like the same things as you that are horrible people? I’ll answer for me, you betcha. Are there people who like the same things as me who are better people than me? Again yes.
I don’t have to acknowledge jack or shit. If you think that everyone who knows about WW2 is a Nazi it isn’t on me to “not all” you. It is on you for not being able to process that other people know things that you do not.
You are arguing with a troll. Save your effort. Every single comment of theirs on this post is low effort nonsense or open harassment. Just block them and move on with your life.
Literally no. They do not say a history buff shouldn’t be trusted. They say do not drop your guard when getting to know them initially. This is a pretty safe and reasonable course of action for getting to know any human. History buff is irrelevant to that statement.
It was the same. They took their stories as seriously as anyone else did. I get it in a way, I was raised a theist. It is cringe to think about it but 14 year old me would have said something like “well of course the Hindus know that they are wrong and should follow Jesus, they are just pretending to have a religion”. Proud to say I am not the person anymore.
I don’t believe in God or anything supernatural. I never ever doubt the sincerity of a person’s belief in those things. The Romans believed in their gods with the same level of passion that any other religious person in history has or will ever. Go ahead and mock a religion but don’t call a person a liar who isn’t.
No, actually, it wasn’t. It is categorically called mythology and not religion for one very simple reason. A religion requires an overarcing system of formal beliefs or dogma that it teaches. Mythology establishes faith through stories and epics. There is no dogma or belief system that’s taught hand in hand with these Greek stories. You’re expected to gain basic lessons through the folly of others.
Religion and mythology are not the same. Things aren’t suddenly called mythology once they’re not believed by a lot of people. It is called mythology because that’s what it is.
I’m just curious, but the definition sounds like distinguishing between religion and faith not exactly religion and mythology. Animism or shamanism doesn’t always have overarching dogma to teach nor actively ask other people to believe in them. Ancient Greek people did some rituals and sacrifice, that practices they did doesn’t count as religion?
I’m just curious, but the definition sounds like distinguishing between religion and faith not exactly religion and mythology.
No, the definition is distinguishing between types of faith, not between religion and faith.
Animism or shamanism doesn’t always have overarching dogma to teach nor actively ask other people to believe in them.
Okay? I’m not sure what the point of this line is.
Ancient Greek people did some rituals and sacrifice, that practices they did doesn’t count as religion?
No. The mistake that people keep making in this thread is conflating mythology and religion. They are two very distinctly different things but that does not mean that they are mutually exclusive. There is Christian mythology that is part of the Christian faith. Note the use of ‘faith’ and not the use of ‘religion’. There is a reason that these terms are frequently used when talking about what are colloquially called ‘religions’. Religion is one part of the faith. Mythology is another part of that same faith. It is important to recognize the difference between the two but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t related.
Id argue that they are the same conceptually, and digging any deeper is splitting hairs. Both are made up stories to make ourselves feel better about death, as well as tips and tricks on how to live.
Which is an aggressively bad argument that is a gross generalization of what’s going on, conflating two completely different fields, and then ignoring the conversation as a whole being about MYTHOLOGY and not religion.
They’re the not same thing. It isn’t splitting hairs. They are related but they are very distinctly different. What you’re essentially saying is that Texans are Americans and its splitting hairs to point out the differences. It really isn’t splitting hairs when the differences are beyond vast. So vast that they literally have classes on the differences between mythology and religion…
look, mythology and religion may not refer to precisely the same thing, but there was a relationship between greek mythology and religious practice. understanding one is helpful in understanding the other.
Yes. And mythology can be part of religion. My point is that they are distinctly different from one another. This does not mean mutually exclusive from one another. You can have mythology within a religion but the entire post and conversation has been about mythology, not religion. You came into this conversation and immediately conflated them both by saying that “people think they’re talking about mythology when they’re talking about religion.” That is categorically false. Most people are not talking about the religious aspects of the beliefs of Ancient Greeks. People don’t focus on the sacrifices that were made to Zeus. They focus on the tales and fables like that of Narcissus or Heracles or Arachne. None of which are religion. They are myths that are then folded into the religion itself. You are the one who isn’t recognizing the difference between what is a myth and what is religion.
I’m disengaging from the rest of this thread. Sources have been provided. Feel free to read them for clarification.
Dude. No. Again, you are conflating religion with mythology.
They are seperate things. Religion can exist without mythology and mythology can exist without religion. Some forms of Greek religion, such as ancient Greek paganism, did include mythology as part of their religion but it was not universal.
This “Part of their religion” thing makes even less sense than saying mythology and religion are the same. Not all Greeks shared the same beliefs. There is a reason why we keep saying Greek mythology when we’re talking about Greek mythology. It’s because we’re talking about the mythology. Religion has no relevance here. Please stop confusing the two and throwing them in the same basket.
Not all Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists share the same beliefs. However I guess in your mind those are real religions and those long dead, unable to defend themselves, Romans didn’t have a real religion. A guy like you burned down the pagan temples of Rome.
Good term for it since, besides for a few incidental stuff in Acts and the Letters of Paul, none of the stories happened. At least Spiderman is set in NYC a city that actually exists in the time period the story is set in.
Things aren’t suddenly called mythology once they’re not believed by a lot of people.
No…that’s pretty much exactly how that happens.
Religion is ritual devotion to a higher being. Full stop. The fact that the Greeks and Romans worships a pantheon instead of a single god makes no difference whatsoever.
I majored in Near Eastern Classical Archaeology and that came with a heavy does of anthropology. What you’re saying is meaningless pedantry that ONLY comes from people who are too insecure to admit that their own Monotheistic religion is in fact just a made up mythology like every other faith that’s ever come and gone on the planet.
The term religion defines a system of formally organized beliefs and practices typically centered around the worship of supernatural forces or beings, whereas mythology is a collection of myths, or stories, belonging to a particular religious or cultural tradition used to explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon.
There is an extremely popular belief that the term “mythology” refers to any religion that is no longer practiced. This belief seems to be especially popular among atheists. I’ve often heard atheists use the expression “Today’s religions are tomorrow’s mythologies.” This belief, however, is wrong. The terms “religion” and “mythology” refer to two completely different things. A religion does not turn into a mythology when it stops being practiced.
Mythology refers to a collection of myths, especially one belonging to a particular religious or cultural tradition. Religion is a specific system of belief and/or worship, often involving a code of ethics and philosophy.
Mythology is defined as a set of stories belonging to one culture or group of people. These stories are supernatural in nature and are often meant to be inspirational, but they do not impose morality. Religion is a set of beliefs and practices combined with the belief in and worship of a god, gods or a superhuman controlling power. Followers generally believe in abiding by guidelines detailed within their religion’s holy or sacred text.
Religion and Mythology are two terms that are often confused when it comes to their connotations, even though, there is some difference between the two terms. First let us define the two terms in order to understand the difference, as well as the relation between the two. Religion can be defined as the belief in and worship of a God or gods. Mythology, on the other hand, refers to a collection of traditional stories from early history or explaining a natural event especially involving supernatural beings.
“formally organized beliefs and practices typically centered around the worship of supernatural forces or beings”
What do you think is taking place when they are sacrificing a bull or a lamb to Zeus, or visiting the temple of Dionysus. Romans (since we’re using them as an example) had very structured forms of worship around their gods. So how exactly is that NOT a religion in your brain?
Because we are talking about mythology not religion. I have never stated that mythology cannot be a part of religion or that they are mutually exclusive. I am merely stating that they are different. Anything else is something you’re adding onto it yourself.
I don’t get what’s so difficult to understand about it. They’re not mutually exclusive but you keep compounding them into the same thing. Religion can have mythology and I’ve never said that it can’t. I’ve merely said that they’re different which is true. You’re arguing that the liver and the immune system is the same thing. I’m merely saying that they work together.
I have provided sources. You can educate yourself on your own time, not mine. I’m not interested in continuing this conversation. You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. You keep claiming you have an education in this yet every single source contradicts you and proves you wrong. You, on the other hand, haven’t provided a single source beyond “I have a diploma”. I don’t trust your education. I trust sources and experts. Considering you have failed to provide a single shred of evidence to back up your claims, I’m going to stick to stuff that has been proven over your random claims based off of your own insane misunderstanding of what is even being talked about in the first place, claims that you have not once backed up at any point in this thread.
Good luck with whatever that behavior is. If you even do have a diploma I feel so incredibly bad for your professors that you didn’t learn rule number 1: Provide sources and don’t believe blindly.
A degree in classical archaeology is more than enough education versus someone who read a couple of articles online. But keep on believing what you want. Enjoy your day.
As a history student I was really afraid that I would meet a ton of right wingers. But I must say the worst kind of people so far are history students that only study history to become teachers. They keep laughing at me saying that at least they have a future and that I will eventually switch sides and become a teacher too, I just don’t know it yet :(
They have a point because I am European. Being a teacher in my area is pretty alright right now. Still, I was aware of what I was getting into and if everything goes downhill I can still work as a journalist or in an archive wich sounds waaay better than teaching history to children who really don’t care.
Yeah, it wasn’t necessarily in civics or history class for me, but I do remember a few transphobic and sometimes racist things that my teachers said or did in elementary and middle school. I remember one time all the 7th graders were gathered together and explicitly told to not use the internet for research because someone found that men could get pregnant. Mind you, they didn’t mention transmen at all but presented it in another way. I left feeling so hung up on how one would go about transplanting a uterus into a male and why they made a scandal of something I had never heard of that seemed impossible and impractical. I only had the epiphany of what that was really about a couple years ago. /tangent
I don’t remember exactly which one said what, but I heard 1) The best thing that can ever happen to a county is to be invaded by the US because we will rebuilt their economy(only mentioned Japan though), 2) Disney fixed Times Square(yay Capitalism), 3) The real estate market only goes up(this was around 2003), 4) something something black mother with 12 kids wealthfare queen, 5) the only Unions that still do anything are teacher unions(completely unironic), 6) something something illegal immigrants.
In contrast, I had one mention from a science teacher supporting climate change and that was only because they were directly ask by a student.
I like this band named Heilung, which has some Viking-ish costumes and lore etc. (although more like Conan’s Hyperborea). They have to put a disclaimer at the start of their videos which is basically a politer version of “Nazi punks fuck off”.
disclaimer at the start of their videos which is basically a politer version of “Nazi punks fuck off”.
The whole scene has been doing that since what 70 years or so now. After the war some groups of people started seriously wondering about what civilisation is, how it’s very much not rooted in whether or not you wear a suit or not, and started looking for roots. The old Germanic roots were at that time actually out of the question: The Nazis had appropriated and bent them to their brand of insanity, but Karl May existed and with the US there were actual Indians in Germany in the form of GIs. Cultural exchange happened, pretty much unnoticed by the general population, and with that came knowledge: Tradition is not the praying to the ashes, but the passing of the fire, that exchange helped people find genuine embers, small as they were. Once people started to flame the symbols of those embers Nazis came along and wanted to be part of it and promptly were told to fuck off – not just out of a general antifascist stance but also because Nazis, in particular, were the ones who poisoned the little that was left after Christianisation. Then time moved on and a lot happened. Baudrillard, for one. Bear with me:
You might’ve noticed that Heilung doesn’t have Germanic symbology front and left and centre – it’s not about the, or any, symbology. They’re not Asatru or something, their costumes and historical references go back further than the Norse (pretty much as far as they can). About the closest you get is song titles written in runic alphabet and some consistent choices in graphic design looking quite like Nordic carvings – but none of that is religious stuff as-such.
From what I can tell Nazis don’t actually try to get a piece of that particular pie: It’s not to their liking. They like their symbols, their flags to rally around, their fetishes, to distract themselves from realising what they’re actually doing. The “Nazi punks fuck off” part is there for people stumbling across it, vibing with it, and wondering whether it’s kosher. Yes, yes it very much is. They’re plain and simply modern shamans who happen to be history nerds, and western esotericism has been post-structural for long enough now that the lack of symbolic system shouldn’t really surprise, c.f. e.g. Chaos Magick. They write and perform rituals to speak to parts of the psyche that what we call civilisation may have forgotten, but certainly not the genome. That, you know, one great being that was always there.
The WW1 trenches are also very rich with inspiration, and the Napoleonic era Sharpe books have influenced quite a few Black Library books if you want more to read
I like reading about all the spy shit and codebreaking that went on. WWII is really interesting if you’re into the history of computer science and encryption.
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