Awesome dig. But, it makes me wonder. Have you or your strategies made any progress, or are you just not trying to push the boulder at all? In which way are you not Sisyphus?
I’m not pushing on that boulder no. I’m doing lots of actual effective organizing and effort elsewhere though. Stuff that makes real differences to real people. So you keep wasting your effort on voting for genocide and I’ll keep cleaning up the mess you make. Hopefully someday you stop wasting your time supporting genocide and instead start spending it doing something that matters
If you are being effective it must be at the local level, and that’s great. However, I don’t see how things like the uncommitted votes subtract from that. Pushing Biden left is no more involved than the bitching you’re engaged in.
Voting for Biden isn’t voting for genocide. That is such a bullshit talking point, but it makes no sense. There is no system of morality that would make that leap. Unless Trump would be better or there is a viable alternative, genocide isn’t on the ballot.
You aren’t cleaning up any messes I made and, thankfully, you aren’t dealing with Trump as the current occupant of the White House.
So did you miss the US putting forward a weak ceasefire resolution at the UN Security Council? Yeah, it wasn’t good enough (and that’s why it failed) but that’s a huge leap from where we were before when the US was absolutely opposed to a ceasefire. That sure as hell looks like a result of electoral pressure. The uncommitted campaign did that, and if it weren’t for fucking coward Blue No Matter Who’s like you we’d actually be able to push Biden on the issue.
I supported the uncommitted campaign. Biden is still better for Palestine than Trump, and you still have no viable path to a third option. The politics of outrage just drives people away.
You’re just defining a tiny in-group, then putting everyone else in an out-group. There is no room for building alliances or cooperation because everyone else is just the enemy. It wouldn’t even matter if we had rank choice voting, you would still be irrelevant.
The whole fucking point of the uncommitted campaign is to leverage our support to force Biden to capitulate to our demands.
You aren’t willing to do that. You are committed to Biden and thus undermining the uncommitted campaign, because you’re telling Biden that he can do anything he wants and you will support him. You and every Blue No Matter Who like you are responsible for Biden not being responsive to demands from his electoral base until recently. They really thought they couldn’t lose enough votes to matter and we can pressure him by making it clear that he is going to lose if he supports genocide. Already he has been moved on this issue and we can move him farther. He should know I’ll vote for him if there’s a permanent ceasefire, UNRWA funding, and an end to military support for Israel.
That’s the viable third option - we force him to capitulate and end the genocide. We can do it. Why are you undermining us?
Biden and the rest of the establishment have no idea how many of those uncommitted votes will or won’t vote for Biden in the general, and nothing I say has any effect on that.
Here is the comment I originally responded to:
Also, it’s great because the same people who said we could push him left are now mad because… we are trying to push him left
The only thing I’m saying is that Biden actually has been pushed left, and many of us who think Biden is preferable to Trump are absolutely in favor of continuing to push him left.
This is one of those Internet bubbles you keep hearing about. You folks have your little in-group, and everyone who doesn’t line up exactly with the group is an outsider. That’s exactly how you convince politicians that you aren’t worth paying attention to. My state hasn’t voted yet. Maybe I’ll vote “uncommitted” like I planned, or maybe I get so fed up with this edgy nonsense that I vote Biden. That’s not likely in my case, but this shit does drive people away. You are more concerned with maintaining your edgy rebel status than actually moving public opinion. I think winning on policy would be a disaster in your eyes because you would no longer be special.
Yes, Biden has been pushed by us, that’s why he put forward a weak ceasefire resolution at the security council. We did that! That’s an accomplishment of the uncommitted movement and the only thing I’m saying is that Biden still has to be pushed farther and that he can be if we stay committed to being uncommitted. It’s clearly working and we don’t need cynics like you undermining our message with Blue No Matter Whoism. This genocide can be stopped, and the only reason it might fail is because of people like you choosing to put vibes over politics.
I will vote for Biden if he capitulates. That’s hardly edgy rebellion, that’s just normal politics. We’re doing politics. Why does that make you so mad?
If online discourse makes you so mad that you actually vote for genocide in the primaries you need to log off.
or maybe I get so fed up with this edgy nonsense that I vote Biden.
“Do what I want or I’ll eagerly cosign your genocide next” do you fucking hear yourself cracker
Literally threatening to support genocide because your fragile fucking feelings were hurt, you COLLABORATOR PIECE OF SHIT. I don’t believe you were ever going to vote uncommitted from that singular fucking comment alone. You have no bonafides, you have no real beliefs beyond whatever gets you your treats, you are neither Malcolm X’s Northern nor Southern dog-- but a new breed; a Midwestern dog. Servile to any genocidal wretch that wags your tail and offers you their table scraps.
You and everybody like you literally sicken me; because if I’m just unlucky and I have to die here, whoever comes next is gonna think I was with you people.
If this is one of those narrow little internet bubbles that ‘you keep hearing about’ then the idea that your liberal tone policing bullshit would have a wide impact doesn’t even make sense.
And speaking of bubbles, you’ve created one for yourself in which anything outside of voting against your beliefs and interests while promising not even to speak harshly of the people and things you claim to oppose is impossible and unacceptable. Doesn’t seem like there’s a lot of options or room for alternatives in your tight little bubble of reality there.
Never mind which, again, most people are not American voters.
You blinkered libs repeat this ad infinitum because (assuming you actually believe it) you’ve made the farce of red vs blue American political theatre your whole world. I don’t view the world like that, users here in general don’t, and most people aren’t American voters.
But it also doesn’t even stand up to scrutiny on its own merits if you assume everyone is an American electoral obsessed lib like yourself:
The Biden admin is committing genocide, factually and materially right now. The fact that another admin in all likelihood would is still less certain than the unshakable material reality of actual current events.
Given the evidence of the previous Trump presidency, there’s every reason to believe that a Trump admin would be less competent and less functional, which could prove better for Palestine and America’s victims.
Trump would actually receive opposition both politically and in terms of laundered public opinion from liberals like yourself, thr Democrats, and potentially the few diehard never-Trump Republicans. That would also be an improvement over an admin that skates by without real opposition and that you’re insisting even those opposed to it have to offer support to.
Trump has historically been unpredictable on foreign policy and diplomacy with foreign leaders. He’s more prone to shifting his position on the basis of grudges, flattery, social connections, hell, even being bought off potentially. When the certainty is continued, unlimited genocide, any uncertainly is an opportunity for improvement.
How far have you pushed the boulder? I’ve pushed it sooo far that it’s publicly saying it’s a little annoyed about the genocide it’s perpetrating. That’s progress.
The increased aid isn’t nothing. It’s not enough, but it’s something we might not have without people pushing that boulder. It’s also just one issue. Overall Biden’s administration has been much further left than his history predicted.
How would you deliver aid in a way that was guaranteed not to kill anyone? Trucks? Nope, those kill people every day. Push carts? Nope, too slow and people would die of exhaustion. Boats? That takes a dock and we’re building one. (And people can die that way too.)
I personally don’t think Biden has the ability to force Israel to do anything unless he does it through military force, which I don’t support. Russia or China would quickly fill the vacuum if the US just pulled out. Ramping up pressure over time maximizes the US’s influence over Israel. I think Biden should have ramped it up a lot faster, but it is the most effective strategy.
The aid truck don’t kill people, the IOF who use the aid trucks as bait kill people, genocidal settlers protesting to keep the trucks getting in kills people by starvation
Neither Russia nor China could ever be as evil as amerikkka even if they actively tried
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