Daily General Discussion - June 14, 2023

Welcome to the Daily General Discussion on Ethfinance

https://i.imgur.com/pRnZJov.jpg

Be awesome to one another and be sure to contribute the most high quality posts over on our sister magazines. Or guide them here for help and community, too!

Daily Doots Rich List - https://dailydoots.com/

community calendar: via Ethstaker https://ethstaker.cc/event-calendar/

"Find and post crypto jobs." https://cryptojobs.gg/

zym0x,

So.... everybody back to reddit? I would really hope we could eventually ditch it

minimalgravitas,
minimalgravitas avatar

Happy to keep using kbin, but I think we need a longer discussion of where we want to community to be based. Personally the value I get from The Daily community is more important than where it is located. Hopefully over the next few weeks we can continue the transition from Reddit, but not if doing so means we splinter EthFinance.

fiah,
fiah avatar

I really like the idea of this monero dude: https://beehaw.org/comment/232609

he proposes leaving the original subreddit public but in restricted mode, then using a bot to relay all posts from the real community back to reddit. That way it's still discoverable from people used to going to reddit.com/r/ethfinance, but if they want to participate they'll have to join kbin.social or wherever we end up

newtosh,
newtosh avatar

That's a good idea imho, great for all the lurkers.
You'll need API access to reddit to make it work though.😂

fiah,
fiah avatar

a well programmed bot won't have to make many API calls to do this. Heck, if need be I could cobble something together that forgoes all APIs and just scrapes the reddit website. Hardest part of that would be dodging the captchas

minimalgravitas,
minimalgravitas avatar

That's clever, yea I like that idea.

hanniabu,
hanniabu avatar

Agreed a longer discussion is needed. I'm still putting together a comparison of about 10 alternatives. There's a number of things that kbin doesn't have, such as a mobile app, which is what people didn't like about other options. So if people no longer actually care about that then there's other options that should be considered as well. Same goes for the mod tools since kbin doesn't have any.

fiah,
fiah avatar

I've been happily browsing the fediverse from a Lemmy instance

BuyETHorDAI,

Give it time. I didn't even know about kbin until today because the ethfinance sub was back up. I think most everyone involved with Ethereum wants to use / support decentralized alternatives when possible. Just gotta spread the word that there are even alternatives!

anon,
anon avatar

Nope, I for one nuked my ten-year-old Reddit account. The API fiasco has actually had a silver lining for me. Not only would I refuse to browse through Reddit's official channels (which are algorithmic advertising platforms disguised as community engagement platforms) instead of user-oriented third-party apps such as Apollo, but ditching Reddit has made me realize just how much time I was mindlessly wasting doomscrolling (outside of the /r/EthFinance daily). I still have the muscle memory urge to idly open Apollo on my phone, it's weird but I'm detoxing slowly.

So I'm happy to move over to kbin for now. Its UX is far less addictive, its content is more narrowly targeted, and I visit less frequently but with more intentionality.

Ditching Reddit has been a net positive for my mental health so far and I would encourage others to consider it too.

anon,
anon avatar

I should add: we have our own version of Mr. Ray Shio here: 101 EthFinance subscribers at kbin vs. 87,600 EthFinance subscribers on Reddit = 0.0012.

TimbukNine,

It's going to take some time for people to migrate.

I get a lot of value from my Reddit browsing, but like others I find myself getting sucked into spending too much time mindlessly browsing rather than actively contributing.

For me, once Apollo goes offline my engagement with Reddit will drop off a cliff. I've already deleted several old accounts and this one is more for continuity. I'd like to see a few more subreddits find there way over here.

One approach would be to have a signature that essentially says "I'm posting more on KBin than Reddit these days, find me on https://kbin.social/m/ethfinance" so that people have a continuous easy migration reminder. However, some automods may just start shadow banning people for this type of content.

hanniabu,
hanniabu avatar

Your comment gets instantly deleted if you link that url

TimbukNine,

Ethereum

epic_trader,

Happy to use this site over reddit as well.

pulisordie,

Just found out about this post-blackout - honestly, would love for us to just move here permanently. I'm super grateful for Reddit for bringing us together. We truly do owe Reddit a lot. But at the same time, the writing is on the wall to take this party elsewhere. And it's in this sub's ethos to not simply give in to the latest whims of a large centralized entity.

dividebyzero,
dividebyzero avatar

How do you subscribe to ethfinance here, right now I have to load the front page, sign in, search ethfinance, find the daily, then updoot it.

SilentJohn,
SilentJohn avatar

On the right panel just above the rules but under the big Ethereum logo, there's a button to subscribe.

SilentJohn,
SilentJohn avatar

kbin feels a little snappier today. Still getting use to this.

@kbrot how customizable is kbin? Bots and automods to prevent spam, etc?

hanniabu,
hanniabu avatar

no mod tools

kbrot,
kbrot avatar

Correct, no mod tools yet. Ironically, the first lemmy or kbin spam bot (of course) has shown up in more popular comm/mags. folks are just manually working on it for now.

With the open-source nature and now many eyes on, development should move rapidly. But it's good to remember the software is only a little over a month old. The main dev is focused on stability and security for now while others appear to be making pull requests on user-friendly features.

hanniabu,
hanniabu avatar

@kbrot with your own instance, if we started using that instead of this, will the instance not be mirrored here because this one already exists and there's collision?

kbrot,
kbrot avatar

At this time, my understanding is that content is nominally mirrored -- not "mirrored" in the sense of the word any IT pro would use. Should an instance go down...

  • First, the two would coincide. There's nothing at this time "destructive" in starting up another m/ethfinance on any kbin instance, or lemmy instance, or anywhere in the fediverse. It would live there just like r/gaming and r/games and r/truegaming do, and users would gravitate toward the community best fitting them.
  • Threads/comments/external links/posts (in the microblog) are cataloged by any other instance that properly federated and subscribed to the magazine from the point at which a user subscribed.
  • So, let's say I or someone else signed up over on new kbin server readit.buzz, we'd have to register on readit as a user there, then browse to and subscribe to ethfinance@kbin.social to start bringing over data. I've seen signs that the number of cross-subscribers (inventing this term) on a given instance helps prioritize the speed of syncing.
  • Caveats are as you've mentioned before: the data earlier than subscription is not brought over, original media is lost unless re-hosted elsewhere, and perhaps most importantly... the links are erased from time (eg. Google searches) so that archival threads, well, aren't. It's similar to the days of lost phpBB communities and forums in that regard.
  • Lastly, it is a very easy process to backup and transfer the database. However, because there is at least one step involved there with an admin, we cannot yet call it anywhere near "trustless"
  • I believe admin Sign-in With Ethereum (via Safe) partially solves this and a VPS company accepting Safe SiWE nearly entirely solves it. But that's a wish and a dream at this point. (Sidenote: what's the old dApp that used to parcel out CPU cycles for tokens, was it Gnosis? Or something else with a G?)
hanniabu,
hanniabu avatar

First, the two would coincide. There's nothing at this time "destructive" in starting up another m/ethfinance on any kbin instance, or lemmy instance, or anywhere in the fediverse. It would live there just like r/gaming and r/games and r/truegaming do, and users would gravitate toward the community best fitting them.

Okay on closer look I see that the subs are distinguished by being prefixed with the instance name

Threads/comments/external links/posts (in the microblog) are cataloged by any other instance that properly federated and subscribed to the magazine from the point at which a user subscribed.

This is a part I need to understand better. So let's say we have your private instance, what causes it to get mirrored? From this comment it sounds like someone subscribing would cause it to get mirrored but that would be it already exists, otherwise how would they subscribe. Is there some prior action that's needed for it to get picked up?

So, let's say I or someone else signed up over on new kbin server readit.buzz, we'd have to register on readit as a user there, then browse to and subscribe to ethfinance@kbin.social to start bringing over data. I've seen signs that the number of cross-subscribers (inventing this term) on a given instance helps prioritize the speed of syncing.

Do you have time to check if you can impersonate yourself? Aka sign up on an instance where kbin is mirrored using "kbrot" as the username, and posting in the daily thread. If that's possible I think that's a big problem.

Caveats are as you've mentioned before: the data earlier than subscription is not brought over, original media is lost unless re-hosted elsewhere, and perhaps most importantly... the links are erased from time (eg. Google searches) so that archival threads, well, aren't. It's similar to the days of lost phpBB communities and forums in that regard.

Lastly, it is a very easy process to backup and transfer the database. However, because there is at least one step involved there with an admin, we cannot yet call it anywhere near "trustless"
I believe admin Sign-in With Ethereum (via Safe) partially solves this and a VPS company accepting Safe SiWE nearly entirely solves it. But that's a wish and a dream at this point.

You'd still be trusting whoever is the person to actually export/upload. However, this could be solved via github. Create a PR to merge an back, let's say monthly. PRs must be reviewed in order to merge. The reviewers are other mods that export and can confirm parity by confirming hashes before merging.

(Sidenote: what's the old dApp that used to parcel out CPU cycles for tokens, was it Gnosis? Or something else with a G?)

Golem?

So back to your instance, should we be using that instead of using this? Or is there no need since we can export the data and launch our own instance at a later time if needed?

kbrot,
kbrot avatar

From what I can tell, subscribing from another instance creates a new community/magazine there on that instance which is fed by the original. So upon a fedia.io user subscribing to us here, they'd general something like: fedia.io/m/ethfinance@kbin.social. And my understanding is it begins collecting data from kbin once that link is established. My understanding is prior content isn't brought over.

I'll check on the username thing but I do believe it's what you fear... a username on one server doesn't preclude it from being registered letter for letter on another. Because with current tools, how could it? That's definitely something to look into and goddamn would web3/ethereum-based authentication be amazing for that verification process!

So back to your instance, should we be using that instead of using this?

Certainly not at this time, if only because it doesn't really work yet. I don't know how the first migration would work since the database would be coming from kbin.social's owner ernest himself. We can't trust that this initial magazine will be preserved, only hope. After that once a person in our community controls the DB -- or a committee or DAO -- then yes, it's an easy transfer via rsycn/rclone/pick your poison.

hanniabu,
hanniabu avatar

So upon a fedia.io user subscribing to us here, they'd general something like: fedia.io/m/ethfinance@kbin.social.

But how does a user from another instance subscribe to this magazine here? If they're from another instance and theu came here then their login would be unassociated and they'd need to make a new login

I don't know how the first migration would work since the database would be coming from kbin.social's owner ernest himself.

As a backup plan what if we used your insurance to mirror this one. Then if we can't get a backup from him then we will at least have the backup of your instance.

nixo,

also voicing support for kbin over reddit. things i wish:

  • that my comment didn't disappear when i didn't realize i wasn't logged in and it redirected to the login page and lost my comment :[
  • that the comment box was at the top instead of the bottom
  • that we could set the daily to automatically sort by "newest" instead of "hot"
hanniabu,
hanniabu avatar

I submitted this feedback along with a few other items

nixo,

yay! a few more items

  • it's still slow (i'm sure they're aware)
  • why the cloudflare checkbox + captcha nearly every time i refresh? D:
  • it keeps logging me out
  • would love to get redirected to the page i was on after getting redirected to the login page (right now, it drops you on the home page, which isn't very helpful and makes you forget what you were doing)
hanniabu,
hanniabu avatar

I think those last 2 are related to cloudlfare. They are using cloudflare as a load balancer right now due to the influx of new users rather than direct instance access. They said it's a temporary thing until the traffic normalizes.

kbrot,
kbrot avatar

Hanni covered most of it. There is a greasemonkey -- or tampermonkey/violentmonkey, whatever kids call it these days -- script that moves the comment box up, but that relies on your comfort with JS scripts in your browser you use for crypto. If you sandbox your crypto and have a separate public browser, then greasemonkey scripts are historically usually fine but keep an eye on it. Otherwise best to wait for the dev to fix. His philosophy was that people on kbin should read all comments before adding to a discussion, but while that's very noble, it's unsustainable beyond the small community his beta was planned for haha.

hanniabu,
hanniabu avatar

Link to this script? I could look into reviewing it and maybe adding some other features

kbrot,
kbrot avatar

This one puts the comment box up top. I tried it in a sandbox env and it worked fine, but I'm not a coder and can't analyze it really. https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/468426-kbin-comment-reorder

This one allows for collapsible comments, helpful for modding down the line. https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/468449-kbin-collapsible-comments

hanniabu,
hanniabu avatar

Both scripts are safe..... i'm new to monkey scripts, do you know if the author is able to update that code? Like if it's safe now will it always be safe?

kbrot,
kbrot avatar

I don't believe so since they're installed locally. At least if my memory serves from messing with tampermonkey in like... high school, haha. But if they convert over into FF/Chrome extensions, for UX reasons, users should be aware those can change.

hanniabu,
hanniabu avatar

I've put together a comparison of Reddit alternatives:

https://gist.github.com/hanniabu/6f96c6e820d58d8736f3c15d4c0e8ae6

I know everyone is favorable to kbin but I think there's still some questions that need to be answered, such as hosted vs self-hosted, how mirroring works, and issues with impersonation.

Discuss here:

https://kbin.social/m/ethfinance/t/16140/Reddit-Alternative-Analysis

or here

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/149bnik/reddit_alternative_analysis/

Chromes,

I feel a little silly double-posting on here and Reddit, but I don't want this to die just because we all default back to reddit, but I also don't want to give up entirely on reddit till more people come here. So apologies for this:

Staking stupid question of the day: Now that my validator seems to be working and I'm in the queue, I still have about 45 days till I start actually validating. Can I turn off my validator for the next couple weeks just so I don't have it running for a month and a half doing nothing more than syncing?

kbrot,
kbrot avatar

I seem to be running into an error where I can't Favourite (upvote) any comments below a parent comment. Apologies if your totals are off today or comments appear "underseen". I am reading and replying!

haddockseyes,

Two more rate hikes coming apparently?

kbrot,
kbrot avatar

Yep but did you get the far more important comment?

"No rate cuts for two years". Which sets up my (admittedly) distant option 2 as now the primary option... one final bull market before the secular bear, and the preservation of the ridiculous 4yr cycle for better or worse.

2023 is confirmed as a 2019 building year. 2024 can be the fakeout to breakout 2020. 2025 (with rate cuts at some point) as the parabolic blowoff 2021.

haddockseyes,

Hmm, I just read that the dot plot predicts a drop to 4.6% in 2024?

kbrot,
kbrot avatar

Yeah there's a little leeway. From the announcement of the cut, to the execution, to the final rollover there's a warning period. 2008 was about a four month period to begin easing out of positions and prepare for the drop. It also had two "humps" to the cut cycle. The markets topped for good in between them.

newtosh,
newtosh avatar

Because we've been talking/using about federated software lately, I wanna show you this: Now that federation is re-enabled on kbin.social, this is how you can see the content on kbin.social via the interface of lemmy.ml: https://lemmy.ml/c/ethfinance@kbin.social

The two servers talk to each other, cross-fetch content, and allow cross-posting comments.

Aaaand this is how to view a community on lemmy.ml from the interface of kbin.social: https://kbin.social/m/opensource@lemmy.ml

cryptOwOcurrency,
cryptOwOcurrency avatar

That’s really neat!

kbrot,
kbrot avatar

Awesome, glad it's re-enabled! This is what I saw in the days leading up to the blackout and what I wanted everyone to see. Thanks for trying out the federation stuff!

endless_bear,

Thanks JPow for making shorting so easy

elliottmatt,

Trying to make the move over here. As so many other people have said, this has helped me realize how much time I did waste on reddit in general.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • ethfinance
  • rosin
  • DreamBathrooms
  • everett
  • magazineikmin
  • InstantRegret
  • ngwrru68w68
  • Youngstown
  • mdbf
  • slotface
  • vwfavf
  • tacticalgear
  • thenastyranch
  • kavyap
  • osvaldo12
  • provamag3
  • ethstaker
  • GTA5RPClips
  • khanakhh
  • Durango
  • tester
  • normalnudes
  • cisconetworking
  • modclub
  • cubers
  • anitta
  • Leos
  • megavids
  • JUstTest
  • All magazines
    •