You read my mind. I’m currently trying to restrain myself from reinstalling Manjaro, and this post reminded me why I switched Ubuntu two years ago. Two drama free years as far as I’m concerned. And I can use printers without switching kernels! Imagine that!
Never had any problems like that with Archlinux. Literally one command, and all your video drivers are installed. And using a minimal kernel is not really a archlinux thing, since it isnt supported.
Sure, the drivers install real quick, but the whole model is rolling release. In three months, you can’t be sure that any one piece of software is actually compatible with the rest of your packages. Any long time Arch user will tell you about the weird manual tweaks they’ve had to make at one time or another just to make sure their wifi still works or soemthing like that. After like 26 months of updates, my version of wpa_supplicant just gave up the ghost and started crashing. Didn’t have this issue on Ubuntu, so the fix was clear. This wasn’t the first time some bizarre driver issue cropped up either. I’ve booted into black screens, my audio stopping working one day, I’ve had to patch my video drivers a time or two, and this is on a System 76 Galago Pro, so its not like I was using some exotic setup. I’ve just had to reboot from grub one too many times I think.
And thanks to the magic of downgrading a package, the issue is resolved within minutes. If any update breaks something, which never happened in 3 years of desktop usage and 2 years of server usage so far, you can just downgrade the package, to the previous version, ignore the upgrade and take some time to understand what breaks. But I understand, why this might be too much maintenance for some people, and they rather pay with their freedom, and let other people take care of their system. But for me, that is not what using Linux is about.
A lot of manjaro issues are specific to manjaro and have nothing to do with arch. I also had a lot of issues with that and after switching to proper arch, the only problem is nvidia (or stuff that I screw up on my own). Zero issues besides that.
This kinda almost happened to me on my arch hyprland setup, good thing a quick search and editing the config file fix it lol. Nowadays I switched to fedora gnome and everything just werks ig.
I was once a minimal arch user and it’s awful because nothing ever just works. You’ve got to build everything yourself and it’s a ton of work, and often breaks. Modern, user friendly distros like Fedora work great. Never have to fix anything
Are you sure you’re not confusing arch with Gentoo? I use arch since 2011 and never had to compile anything by myself unless I wanted to use a program that’s not in the repositories.
And since 7/8 years it works for me out of the box almost all the time.
It’s funny, but memes like this affect the opinion of people who haven’t tried it.
They mistake some extreme minimal arch rice for the general Arch experience or the general Linux experience as well. If so many Lemmy users, who are statistically tech nerds, don’t see through the meme, then the average person will definitely stay away from Linux.
Why do you automatically assume the person who wrote this wants people to use arch? It’s written as a joke, which means it might be nonsense or it might be a real dedicated arch user who had a bad day, or it might be someone who thinks linux is terrible.
This isn’t even a pro-linux community so OP probably doesn’t care about “affecting the opinion of people who haven’t used it”.
But it’s misinformation and it might lead to some gullible idiot to take it seriously and this it should be censored in the name of making the Internet more safe for everyone!
The average person probably should stay away from Linux. In fact most of them should stay away from PCs in general.
They should stick to an iPad or something. That way I, the family tech nerd, will never be bothered by them a week after they downloaded “hacked Spotify” or some shit, that is now emailing scams to everybody in the continental United States. Most people just need a browser.
Learning more about technology and having more control can be really empowering. I don’t think dumbing things down even more is going to make people more tech literate and it’s definitely going to make them more dependent on shitty corporations.
Many years ago I advocated for using Linux on the servers we sold to customers. They didn’t need to do much. Run a DB server mostly. This was accepted happily by my managers as we could save costs on Windows licences.
Over the next five years, as those machines started to go wrong, it became my job to fix all of them, alongside all my other duties. So now we use Windows again, because our low wage helpdesk monkeys can actually talk people through most faults.
Sometimes people don’t want to be empowered. They just want their shit to work.
Ironically factory resettable Linux distros are coming and will be more mainstream. Fedora plans to convert all Workstation users to Silverblue/Kinoite within 5 years. Being immutable distros, a factory reset option will soon arrive at them. Other distros are now also experimenting with this.
As someone who recently started using it…doing anything at all is a pain in the ass in Linux vs Windows.
Installing many things requires following a guide instead of downloading an exe. And when one step of the guide yields something unexpected, well good luck.
It would be convenient in short term. But, once the vast majority of people starts to live in the walled gardens, it would be very difficult to buy a “normal” computing device.
Based, most people today would be just fine with a Chromebook. Not to say I support Google’s BS, but 90% of people don’t need to do more on their computer then use a web browser to access emails, view their bank account, stream some shows and maybe write a word document here and there.
It’s true that Linux gives you control and freedom over your computer. But for the vast majority of people, that level of control is something they don’t know how to wield and is unneeded given their day to day tasks.
tbh, cause my other comment in this thread were more windows-rant, I had one moment where I felt “alone” in enterprise (i was 23). It was in 2007, laptops in enterprise, at least in this insurance company was not common, and I was the only person with my glorious x60, at least within the openspace :). I was called in a meeting to help to display something, except that this is was my personal laptop, with hardware issue and gentooised, i don’t remember exactly the issue but X was not willing to start at resume, even after reboot. I felt alone in front of the senior dev and manager guys :P Of course, it was the classical Murphy shit moment.
Note that this projector was usually connected to one of these HP pizzabox running wintel but it was not working. So I guess I shouldn’t be totally ashamed at the end.
It’s true. On Arch, you have to compile a different package for every pixel on your screen. It could take days to finish compiling and when it’s finished compiling all the pixels, you have to start all over again.
I switched to Ubuntu Cinnamon and now I can walk on my own feet again.
From using arch with the default kernel and XFCE: the only thing that breaks is the external monitor gets the XFCE default desktop background rather than the one you set. Other than that hot plugging just works.
Granted minimal window managers tend to require explicit edits to a config file to get monitors working
It’s incredibly long stretches of smooth sailing interspersed by brief intervals of banging my head against the desk.
…which generally isn’t nix’s fault it’s just that fitting the absolute state that is python package management into something sensible is an exercise in futility.
Oh and occasionally I have to doctor around a bit during upgrades because my EFI partition is only 100MB, someone should have warned me. Deleting old generations and windows boot loader language packs and fonts generally does the trick.
I mean, Fedora outside of the Flatpak-only Silverblue breaks a lot upon upgrades, last I checked recently on it. Fedora users do touch grass but breakage is an annoyance, and the whole Redhat drama… if you are okay with dealing with Fedora update breakages, then its cool.
I have had zero breakage on vanilla Fedora ever since switching to it years ago, it’s probably the most stable yet cutting edge distro I have ever used. I seriously have no idea what you’re talking about and would love to see some examples of this supposed frequent breakage.
If it’s so famous, it should be trivial to gather a bunch of the more egregious examples of general update/upgrade breakage. Again, would you mind linking to them? I can neither personally remember them, nor is Google any help.
All I can find are minor, individual, dependency issues that are common with absolutely every Linux distro. I’m actually a little surprised how few of those Google digs up.
It would be rather worrisome if the foundation for an industry behemoth like REHL would commonly suffer from the problems you, and only you, are claiming without any kind of evidence. So, please, end my “delusion” and show me the error of my ways by showing us these common issues.
Google is not going to give answers that exist in forums and reddit threads. Being in Linux community allows to see this. People usually just hop onto other distros without screaming too much, or will say the faintest hint in comments here and there. Fedora users are guinea pigs for RHEL, so RHEL does not exactly care as it is downstream.
Wow, “Google doesn’t index Reddit, Linux Forums and Mailing Lists” is a new one. Good job, I genuinely can’t tell if you’re a master troll or an giant idiot.
Regardless, as someone who has been active in the Linux community since around ~97, I’m at least certain that you are full of shit.
I never said “Google doesn’t index”, so stop manipulating and putting words in others’ mouths to prove your point. Google “cannot” index something easily that is worded in general in a way that says Fedora sucks, instead of Fedora crashes or whatever. Plenty users who avoid it, avoid it for this reason, as it is rolling release and not stable like Debian/Ubuntu. I do not have time to hunt each testimony, and even if I did, your attitude clearly is hellbent on proving that Fedora is absolutely stable on updates even outside Silverblue, and will not go out of your way to self crit and correct yourself if proven wrong. My time is better invested elsewhere.
Google is not going to give answers that exist in forums and reddit threads.
That’s a thing you said, and easily the dumbest thing I have read all day. Well, apart from almost everything else you have said, of course.
will not go out of your way to self crit and correct yourself if proven wrong
Sure, with that mountain of evidence you have provided to conclusively prove your point, I’m going to have take a nice, long, break from this ‘discussion’ and use it for self reflection.
it’s probably the most stable yet cutting edge distro I have ever used
same experience, I daily drive Fedora and it’s my first linux distro. Have had a great experience especially after most of the software is on flatpak. Let’s see how that telemetry proposal goes.
You guys realize scapegoating spaz is exactly what’s best for Reddit right? He is the Fall Guy and was hired back on after the company was taken over, for exactly this purpose. It certainly not because of his intellect or technical prowess…
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