YourHuckleberry,

In capitalism, if you don’t work, some capitalist pig will throw your family out on the streets, whereas in communism, if you don’t work, some communist pig will throw your family in jail.

Something_Complex,

And that’s why extremes will never work. Look every complex problem need a complex solucion.

We would need hybrids of all past rulling systems in order to actually improve.

mexicancartel,

Even my country is “mixed” economy and still does not work well but i think its better than 100%capitalism or communism. Imo its still not that good because its not roperly configured

Mesa,
@Mesa@programming.dev avatar

Well, there’s a principle of nature…

bi_tux,
@bi_tux@lemmy.world avatar

I mean they already monitize water in poor countries in Africa, so yeah.

intensely_human,

How horrible! A profit motive attached to the extraction, purification, and provision of water!

Some people make money they otherwise wouldn’t have and others drink clean water they otherwise wouldn’t have. Hell on earth!

kmkz_ninja,

Ahh yes Nestlé, a small helpful company that is only looking for a little extra cash at the expense of large groups of people losing their native water rights in perpetuity.

intensely_human,

We also monetize water here. That’s why there are water bills.

kmkz_ninja,

Old comment, but at least we get to use the water our municipalities take, or our local governments get to have and use the profits for that water.

Instead, Nestlé ships it off and holds the profits, essentially robbing resources permanently from people that are just trying to survive. There’s an argument I’m infantalizing people, but still.

juansero29,

And rent is your monthly subscription to being someone and not fucking die out there

deleted,

This is why I prefer socialism over capitalism.

In socialism, I’d be poor and have no choice of what I buy or eat but I can live and afford having children.

In capitalism, where you have freedom, the same rules applies to poor and rich citizens. The difference is that the rich can afford lawyers and are able to lobby to change/break the law on their favor. You don’t.

This is how the cost of living would go 100% up and you wage increase by 1.34% each year.

TeoTwawki,
@TeoTwawki@lemmy.world avatar

All systems fall to corruption. All. I believe an A or B choice is cheating humanity out of new solutions.

deleted,

Agreed about corruption.

But some systems are better than others.

In USA, as a billionaire, you can screw people and lobby aka “bribe” to get what you want.

And at the end, you pay 0 taxes.

razza856,

you do know that under a socialist system worker-owned companies would compete in the market right? you’d still have lots of choice lol

Sarcasdick28,

My brain smooth would appreciate any elaboration please

quindraco,

Regardless of how you’re defining capitalism and socialism, you haven’t changed systems if all you do is change which private entity owns the company.

deleted,

I’m interested to know more.

Some people only think of bad vibes of the Soviet Union when anyone talk bad about capitalism.

In my country, we have free healthcare, free education, livable wages, free market.

We’re not capitalist tho. A mix of socialism and capitalism.

100% communism is bad, 100% capitalism is bad, 100% socialism is bad.

within_epsilon,

I am a worker under capitalism. The owner tells me how to work. I sell my time for money. I produce value for the owner. The owner keeps the difference between the value I produce and the money for which I sold my time. The excess value after paying for my time is kept by the owner. I have money to buy products.

I am a worker under socialism. I decide how to work with other workers. I produce value. I provide my value to those in need.

I prefer to own my time and value. I do not want to pay a state to give money to owners. I do not want to empower a state to use violence if I do not comply.

I am not sure how communism, socialism and capitalism are being used here. I am an anarchist. I would say states are bad, owners are bad, heirarchy is bad.

deleted,

Totally agree.

What I mean is the state should define rules and enforce them. And for critical industries the state can support / supplement the companies.

This way big corps cannot have monopoly.

My main issue with capitalism/ USA system is lobbying and allowing corps to do what ever they want in the fine print.

razza856,

socialism isn’t just “government owns/provides everything.

There are different flavours. One of which entails workers owning the companies they work for, rather than the state owning everything.

deleted,

That is the point capitalists cannot comprehend.

Twitter have resources to crush small social media apps. Monopoly is a serious issue in capitalism.

If people own a company similar how lemmy is open source then they would have resources to fight back big corporations.

bi_tux,
@bi_tux@lemmy.world avatar

I think what you are reffering to as “not capitalist” is called social market economy, at least that’s what it’s called in german.

Some economists also reffer to it as Rhein Capitalism, because it’s mostly used in europe and was important to prevent west german citizens from wanting communism.

deleted,

Exactly!

I just know it did exist.

One good example is Germany. If the government didn’t phase out nuclear power as the citizens wanted they would have been in better place now.

Sometimes voting and democracy isn’t ideal as it’s easy to influence people if you have enough resources.

bi_tux,
@bi_tux@lemmy.world avatar

I disagree, voting is always right, but there’s only an ideal outcome if the population is educated about the topic.

If people would have realised, that the true worst power source is fosile fules, we’d have cheaper electricity and better co2 rates now.

Same problem with power in austria btw, if some missinformed teens wouldn’t have tried to be important back then we’d be maybe fully selfsufficient regaeding power now.

deleted,

The issue is that educating people is not easy as it sounds. Also, if you’re rich, you can influence the people who vote.

Take Alex Jones as an example, he managed to convince someone to commit a crime. Look up Sandy Hook incident.

Also, Trump and Jan 6th.

You can see a pattern here. More resources means more influence thus manipulating people easily.

DessertStorms,
DessertStorms avatar

They already have monetised breathing: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2021/mar/01/take-a-deep-breath-how-cornish-air-sells-for-60-a-bottle-even-if-its-from-devon

It might seem like just a schtick to con rich people, and it currently is, but that doesn't change the fact that there are scammers out there literally "collecting" air in jars (I saw a segment on them a while ago on tv, they even got a "collection net" out thinking it made them look less like scammers. It didn't) and selling it to Chinese people (who's own air is so bad because their production is trying to keep up with wester demand) for profit.

And it isn't just out of touch rich people who need to do this though, they're just the only ones who can afford to waste their money on this useless "solution" to their problem, but the problem, which was created by capitalism, isn't going anywhere until capitalism has sold us a "solution" for it. Just like they're trying to do with this sun blocking and carbon capturing bullshit now.

misterundercoat,
DessertStorms,
DessertStorms avatar

Pretty much!

solivine,

You won’t like to see the Dyson Zone

lemminer,

We live in a deceiving world. Electricity is supposed to be free but some dude wanted to make money out of it.

vtez44,

How else manage resources? You want everybody to be equally poor, like under communism? Maybe except the ruling party. You have no alternative.

DessertStorms,
DessertStorms avatar

https://medium.com/international-workers-press/misconceptions-about-communism-2e366f1ef51f

Careful though, you might accidentally learn something...

root,
@root@lemmy.world avatar

I always thought of it as permission slips (like when you were a kid).

SCmSTR,

"Capitalism is paywalling life."

m15otw,

I recommend Kaon’s Wonderland (novel).

They literally build a solar panel that blocks the sun, so they can charge people for the heat and light.

style99,
style99 avatar

Money is a tangible expression of intellectual property (i.e. IRL cheat codes).

tal,
tal avatar

If air were a limited resource, rather than one available in great abundance, it probably would be.

RemembertheApollo,

"Come on, Cohaagen. You got what you want. Give those people air."

DessertStorms,
DessertStorms avatar

The air has already been made in to a limited resource, killing millions annually:

  • Air pollution is one of the greatest environmental risk to health. By reducing air pollution levels, countries can reduce the burden of disease from stroke, heart disease, lung cancer, and both chronic and acute respiratory diseases, including asthma.

  • In 2019, 99% of the world’s population was living in places where the WHO air quality guidelines levels were not met.

  • The combined effects of ambient air pollution and household air pollution are associated with 6.7 million premature deaths annually.

  • Ambient (outdoor) air pollution is estimated to have caused 4.2 million premature deaths worldwide in 2019.

  • Some 89% of those premature deaths occurred in low- and middle-income countries, and the greatest number in the WHO South-East Asia and Western Pacific Regions.

Source - WHO

hellequin67,

Private healthcare has got this covered

SCmSTR,

Ouch my sides. From laughter though, I don't want to increase my premiums.

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