And for those now suddenly wondering why Europe isn’t even colder than it actually is, the answer is that the Gulf Stream brings a lot of heat. Also, the reason why it hasn’t historically tended to get as hot as the American upper midwest/great plains during the summer is that the rest of the water surrounding it, such as the Med and the Baltic, helps moderate the temperature (as opposed to the “continental” climate of the midwest).
True but climate change has made Canada very hot the past few years. I live in the west where we had a heat dome in 2021 that reached nearly 50C and burned down an entire town.
The capital of Northwest Territories is currently on full evacuation from wildfires.
Believe me, I know. I spend a lot of time in the Pacific Northwest so I’ve felt heat without AC. In just explaining why homes have traditionally not had AC.
(BC Lower Mainland) I installed a heat pump in my main living area last year and by god it has been my best investment in years. Hydro bill dropped and I’m very comfortable all year round. Can’t believe how long I put up with not owning one.
You could use a fan, sleep without a blanket or sleep hugging a water-filled water bottle. The latter two is what I generally do on warm days (or use a really thin sheet if it is not too warm). Also keep the windows open at night so the house can cool down before the sun rises and starts irradiating your walls and roof.
Well, yes. Until people caused climate change, we didn’t need air cooling systems. Depending on where you lived, you need to build to keep heat IN buildings, even.
But, here we are, a planet on fire. So now we need air cooling to survive, lest our weakest, elderly, infirm, young children die. Then down the line once it’s even worse, it’ll be needed just so that any of us can survive.
Feck the bourgeoisie and the generations of apathetic fools under them that have allowed this to happen :-(
Well, if you are going to call someone out, at least have a list of things you do.
Using some of the examples from my own life: I use public transit or bike. I don’t own a car. I grow vegetables in my yard. I make a conscious effort to recycle and reduce my waste. I saving to upgrade my heat from oil to much more sustainable technologies. I don’t use a powered tool where a manual will do, and if I have to use a powered tool I stay away from fuel powered ones.
: individual efforts are ultimately useless. 100 companies cause 71% of all carbon emissions.
One cruise ship burns 7,000 gallons of fuel per hour. What are people living paycheck to paycheck supposed to do about that?
Those boats run 24/7, 365.
A Boeing 777 burns 8,500,000 millions of gallon of fuel per year. They’ve been around for 25 years. There are 1,700 in service. That’s like 300 billion gallons of fuel right there, one type of jet.
They didn’t need it before. Much of America didn’t either. A lot of old wood houses had designs built for airflow and trees surrounding the houses. Those that didn’t got old attic fans that would pull air from the bottom of the house to the top and out of vents.
These days, insulation and HVAC exists and Americans jumped at the chance to have year round temperature control. Heat pumps now have the best efficiency for cooling and heating year round and can replace most options. Almost everyone will need this option as global warming barrell out of control.
I hate it when people chop down all of the trees around their house, I assume because they don’t want the leaves on their yard. I have a bunch of trees around my house, the downside is it is sort of dark in the house and it is hard to have a garden, the plus side is it must be at least 10 degrees cooler inside in the summer. I’ve left the house overdressed thinking it is a cool day because of it.
You’d have to have an extremely drafty house for them to pull air from the bottom of the house and your attic floor should be well insulated anyway. The recirculating air is coming from the soffits and vents. The best reason to have an attic fan is if you have an AC unit in the attic, then you want to get hot air out of that space.
If you live far from the cities, then cutting down the trees immediately close to your house can be a very reasonable thing to do (some countries even mandate it), because if a wildfire comes around, it is more likely your house will survive if it isn’t surrounded by flammable materials.
The new analysis estimates a timescale for the collapse of between 2025 and 2095, with a central estimate of 2050
To be clear, this is still really bad, but it’s typical media reporting where scientists say sometime in the next 70 years and the media changes it to “next year”
I don’t disagree about the headline, but ~70 years for something that last happened in the ice age is imminent on a geologic scale. I mean, shit: that’s within my kid’s lifetime.
Oh yeah no for sure, we’re pretty much past the point of no return at this point for shitty things happening in my of our lifetimes, even if humanity decides to suddenly start doing something about it
On the other hand we weren’t supposed to hit +1.5° average before 2050, and here we are in 2023, unless a global scale event happens to cool the earth, we’ll hit this mark.
This year arctica never had this low ice cover. Same for antartica. Mountains are falling in Switzerland because of the lack of ice cover. It’s very bad and there might be cascading effects.
Gulf stream stopping could very well be happening in 2 years. It is a possibility. But even if it happens in 2050 it’s not really good you know.
You tilt 90 degrees in this analogy, you just aren’t getting it.
Indeed. I wasn’t getting it because our windows actually have a tilt function, where you open it from the top, rotating on the bottom axis instead. I’m not familar with people calling the usual opening “titling” as well.
Anyway, our superiour German engineers did also figure out sliding windows especially for cars. But our houses usually don’t travel at high speeds, so the “tilting” of the winows isn’t a huge issue. I can understand this is different in the US where houses in states like Kansas often soar through the air at high speed. Different use cases I think.
It moves horizonal instead of tilting because it just makes more sense
Why? Name an actual advantage for a change.
Here is one disadvantage: You need to go outside to clean the outside. Why not just swing it in. You can put a bucket right underneat, do it along with the inside.
Also nice casual xenophobia, you say over your US invented internet.
Really, you don’t detect the streak of sarcasm (I called US windows inferior in the very first comment) here? Please do realise we are talking about window design here. Let’s say I’m not taking this 100% seriously.
But while we’re at it, sure the US did a lot of gruntwork for the Internet, but really what we know as the internet, was invented at CERN. So Europe score again! I can go back like this till Euler. US didn’t even exist back then.
I can tell the Europeans are on because they’re roleplaying that those are somehow better lol. Tilt windows make no sense over sliding windows if you’re looking at it objectively.
I think some of those historical cities will prohibit that to maintain the architecture. What I have seen in some European apartments though are the floor model portable AC units. And they make these insulated fabric things that you velcro to the French windows and pain to create a insulated seal while keeping it partially open with the portable ac hose attached.
My mom was born and raised in the UK, came to the US in her mid 20s and never left. She went back a month ago to visit my grandparents, and she said that even though America is in a very bad place rn, the UK is a lot worse off. She said she even had a grieving period while she was there, and just let go of whatever UK pride / citizenship she had left. My cousins just moved from their to Canada, my aunt and uncle are moving to South Korea, and my grandparents are staying. They’re conservative/right wing and feel right at home and truly support Brexit and are racists.
Yea… I can pretty much promise you, if it was 43c and 60% humidity in europe, like it is where I live currently… they would have A/C units.
Then, everyone always fusses because we drive so much here in the US, instead of walking everywhere… without accounting for, the US is drastically bigger. So, yes karen, I don’t ride by bicycle 35 miles to work.
Texas (one of the many states/territories in the US), overlaid onto europe:
Seriously, fuck off with the America is bad insults, with poor apples to oranges comparisons.
There is a lot of stuff we do that can be drastically improved, but, saying Europe doesn’t need AC and the U.S. does, because (insert US lazy / inefficient reason here…), is pretty dumb.
I can literally cook food in my car, or on my roof. Yes, I need A/C.
After reviewing your profile, it appears you like to be the victim, and blame the world for all of your issues, instead of trying to actually make a difference and improve things.
For future endeavours, why don’t you try to make a difference, instead of expecting everyone to cater to your desires.
Please, don’t bother responding this this comment, I have blocked you from this instance. Better things to do then to conversate with negative nancy all day.
Probably America should not have put the homes 35 miles away from the everything else. Further, it should stop resisting efforts to put things closer together.
Probably America should not have put the homes 35 miles away from the everything else. Further, it should stop resisting efforts to put things closer together.
You do realize- the majority of America does live in towns and cities, right?
The climate is definitely different. You are right overall. But some places like New York or Chicago are both hotter and colder depending on the time of year.
Are you suggesting that the things you mention are not true? There’s probably a reason why people keep mentioning them, no?
No matter what, we are all in the climate crisis together, and everyone, including Americans, must do everything we can to make better choices when it comes to climate.
There’s probably a reason why people keep mentioning them, no?
Shouldn't you be mentioning them to the Germans and the Swedes, since the former uses the same drywall Americans do and the latter builds with wood? We get bitched at but never them, so it's not actually about the materials.
You guys have never seen a window screen before and politely assume there's no real-world reason they're needed here. The answer is bugs. LOTS of bugs. Diseased bugs. Putrid bugs that breed like hell. Bugs who spray you with little drops of acid. Those don't exist where you live, so you have neat windows.
I agree that we're supposed to be in this shit together. It's fucking maddening that every time a disaster happens in Europe, it feels like the majority of us empathize with you guys, but the second half an opportunity arises here, Europeans point and laugh. Often about things they don't fully get or that were their fault to begin with.
Have you ever been in a typical, modern European house?
Sadly (for the US), on average every single point on your list is true.
Just look at the places in the US hit by catastrophes. Basically, nothing but maybe foundations remain. If there is a fire, they usually add their mass to the fire instead of resisting. If a fire actually reaches a European town the damage is quite lower than what can be regularly seen of in the US.
And yes, Americans are wasteful. In so many regards, it is not funny. Living in suburbia and driving gas guzzling trucks where a normal car would more than suffice are just two examples.
European windows (and the general thermal isolation of houses in Europe) are way better at keeping cold and heat separated than even the better insulated cardboard boxes Americans call “houses”.
Do you understand Q = Cth Δ T?
And most Europeans deal better with humidity (and heat) because they are used to it.
No you’ve got your bingo card full, go home and whine.
I’m in the UK and I am currently buying a house, I looked at hundreds and the one I am buying is the only one with built in AirCon, Only to 1 room though. It really is rare here, I have a portable unit but it isn’t that good, I think these are what many people have but actual built in air conditioning is in my experience very rare.
It’s expensive to add and the cost is per room… plus portable isn’t that bad for the couple of weeks of actual warm weather.
I can’t even have portable as I have no opening windows in the main room… would have to fix that first. Luckily insulation works both ways and it doesn’t really get that hot in here yet.
What is the average age for a house there? I’m guessing the cost of central air installation (duct work) vs sticking a window unit in is the issue. Then there is the cost of electricity so just cooling one room at a time will be cheaper.
The older ones (Like the one I am selling) are built like big heat sinks, The intention is that you always have the coal fire burning in the day I think and the whole building stays warm over night. However in the very warm weather we get now these houses are not so great.
Because for most of Europe, it wasn’t needed to have AC up until more recent years. You would have maybe what? 5-10 days a year that were actually really warm. People wouldn’t install an AC for that.
These numbers will drastically change the coming decades.
That’s not true. While Northern Europe doesn’t really need aircon, Southern Europe is pretty bloody hot since the days of Christ. The difference is that European houses are built with insulation in mind, US houses are built from sticks and shit.
I’m well aware that AC is common to have in the south but then you’re talking about like 4 countries. Once you move north of those, it’s not all that common to have an AC in the house.
The insulation requirements in the US are higher than many European areas with similar climates. Germany for instance would fall in region 4 and 5 of the US climate wise. R-30 is required for walls, R60 for ceilings, and R20 for floors for homes in the US. Germany recommends 6cm of wall insulation ~R8, 14cm for ceiling ~R19, and 6cm for the floor R8.___
…and we don’t really have recommendations as such. KfW55 is nowadays mandatory for new construction, KfW70 and up gets you cheap loans. KfW70 means less than 45 kWh/m² per year for heating and they don’t really care how you achieve that. We didn’t really get around yet factoring cooling into stuff.
I was using freedom units for both. The R values were determined based on insulation thickness. Because you Europeans use energy consumption for your requirements it’s impossible to compare with US requirements. I did find this table giving recommendations for insulation.
Your numbers still don’t make any sense or are a century out of date or something.
The KfW also hands out loans to add insulation to existing buildings, U0.14 roof, 0.2 walls, 0.25 floor, so lowest R22.7 in Rankine land. The other numbers are for window, listed buildings, etc. All of that is minimum what’s actually recommended is well ask your architect and budget. There’s only so much that’s sensible to do when it comes to old construction as at some point hunting for air gaps and heat bridges is more bother than tearing the thing down and building new, and the KfW did set the standards sufficiently low so that currently uninsulated buildings at least get something and you can’t just tack on half a metre of insulation to an existing structure either. Mostly it’s the roof that’s missing insulation, walls tend to be defensible as they are and it probably makes more sense to upgrade the heating system.
You can back out R values based on insulation thickness, that table may be old… It didn’t have a date on it.
The values you provided equate to freedom R values of R40.5, R28, and R22.5 for the roof, walls, and floor. Those are inline or behind the US minimum requirements R60, R30, R20.
Especially since some people are pushing for lower regulations on how to build houses in some countries in Europe. Yes, there is a housing crisis going on. But when we start to build weaker buildings because of that, we just make other problems worse.
These numbers will drastically change the coming decades
which will only make things worse, since AC just moves all the heat from indoors, out, and uses energy to work of course.
What we really need is builders to start taking the extra heat in to account and designing accordingly (there are loads of different ways to physically control the temperature of a space instead of mechanically).
Shame that'll never actually happen..
European housing is built with a lot of focus on insulation and heat control
It’s more about also keeping heat out, as well as heat in. Which have overlap but are not necessarily the same thing. See this conversation for some more details.
The big change that needs to happen soon is passive heat blocking for personal residences.
Most HOAs don’t allow a big extra wooden structure over the roof to block the sun; but they’re going to need to start to keep home prices up.
But HOAs are designed to make rule changes almost impossible. So I predict we’re going to see a lot of expensive neighborhoods become cheap ones in the next 15 years, due to their HOA not fkexing to support necessary heat control structures.
This is a hairbrained idea. Nobody is seriously considering building massive wooden structures over entire home just for shade. Just focus on cool roofs, solar panels, trees, and usual weatherization.
Buildings with all glass façades are an insulation nightmare. Cities need more water, plants and trees. Houses need can be built to favour shadow and fressness. You can even go anciant design that were naturally cooled and winded, like roman or African houses.
I don’t know about other European countries, but France housing is a disaster the last 40 years. It’s only been a decade at best that insulation is a consideration, but the quality is quite bad.
Overall it’s still going to be a net saving as people switch from electric/gas heat to heat pumps and AC is just those but running in reverse.
And, of course, insulation. The reason we got away without AC is due to generally very large thermal mass of the exterior, you shutter everything in the morning to keep the heat out and when the temperatures drop again you open everything and let the air cool everything down. Thing is: In those recent waves there were plenty of nights where the temperature didn’t really drop.
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