Cowbee

@Cowbee@lemmy.ml

Actually, this town has more than enough room for the two of us

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Cowbee,

Maybe posting is praxis after all!

Cowbee,

Unlike serfs, workers must compete with each other as well as Capitalists. The Market protects nobody but the interests of Capital.

Cowbee,

I wonder why a site built by Marxist-Leninists to answer the failings of Capitalist Reddit due to the profit motive has a bunch of anti-Capitalists. Who knows?

Cowbee,

Hey, if you read theory, it becomes obvious that Capitalism is unsustainable! Either we all die, or the future will move beyond it!

Cowbee,

You can overthrow Capitalism, it weakens itself.

Cowbee, (edited )

Why do some people become assholes?

Cowbee,

Based.

Cowbee,

The founding fathers would be applauding, lol. They were slave owning Capitalists.

Cowbee,

You’ve made it clear that you believe words do not have meanings, and are just vibes, yes.

Cowbee,

Who do Capitalists employ? Fairies?

Cowbee,

9 billion having the same vibe as me.

Cowbee,

Liberalism.

Cowbee,

I think you have done a lot of thinking, but haven’t really engaged much with Marxism or Anarchism with regards to philisophy.

For Marxism, check out Socialism: Utopian and Scientific by Engels.

For Anarchism, The Conquest of Bread by Kropotkin is good.

The “Human Nature” issue is one that every leftist movement has had to engage with and “solve.”

Cowbee,

Yes. Liberalism is the dominant ideology in the World today.

Cowbee,

…what? Do you know what a “job” is?

Cowbee,

Nah, you just lie ✌️

Cowbee,

You outright stated that nobody is employed.

Cowbee,

I think you have a point, yes, though I disagree with it personally. That isn’t to take away from your thought process or personal experiences or evaluations. The why of that disagreement takes a good long while to explain adequately, but I’ll do my best.

For starters, though I identify myself chiefly as an anti-sectarian Leftist, I do ultimately find myself agreeing more with Marxism than Anarchism. Just my own personal conclusions after learning and reading theory. I try not to only give Marxist recommendations because a comrade is a comrade, and the reason I am anti-sectarian is because I believe we need to build a mass workers’ movement of any sort before we can get to debating the finer details, though I still agree more with Marxist organizational methods in the short term.

It isn’t as much a concrete point like “having a police”, but rather the human nature. I see a lot of protective behavior in people. The idea of communism is a sacrificing one in the sense that you give some of yours to get more for everyone. As a system will teach people within the system that the system is good. It is expected that people will be generally protective of the system. So sacrificing some freedoms for the protection of the system seems like a very normal evolution of those ideals. And you don’t need to worry as the system is good which is why you are protecting it.

This is extremely close to Marx’s Historical Materialism! That’s why I recommended Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, actually. The core concept is that environments shape people, who then reshape their environments, which then reshape the people who again reshape their environments. Very cool to see you get close to it!

So over time, just like under any hierarchical system, the power will move towards the “core” of the system. Under capitalism the wealthy and under communism the state. Under communism, protecting the system will have a strong hand and will move the power to the “core”. The “core” is the state. the system and the state are extremely similar. So the state will behave as if an Attack on them is an Attack on the system. Justifying additional force and moving power into the core.

Yes and no. My primary criticism of this section is that it doesn’t specifically analyze how this consolidation happens. It can happen, but may still be designed against. More later.

Under somewhat authoritarian capitalism, we can observe that behavior quite clearly. But the state and the core isn’t as similar and an “attack” on the “core” isn’t an Attack on the state. Creating the shit that we can observe today under capitalism. Where the state are corrupted by the core while pretending to not be and fighting against the elements of the core that haven’t paid them.

No real disagreements here. I would say it’s pretty accurate and similar to what other leftists have stated, if in different language.

In communism, the power goes to the state and the state happily accepts it, turning it more and more authoritarian over time.

This is what I tend to take issue with. Under Capitalism, the State is a vehicle by which the bourgeoisie suppresses the Proletariat. This State is weilded by the Bourgeoisie, as the Bourgeoisie have all of the power, thus the will of the few oppresses the many.

However, what happens if the majority democratically operate this State? It has power, yes, but properly designed and democratically operated, it does not necessarily stand to reason that it would result in oppression of the majority like Capitalism. That’s why I asked for specifics, actually!

So from my pov, authoritarian Systems are an issue but are also seemingly required to protect the system and it’s people.

Marxists entirely agree with this, but believe that once Capitalism is thoroughly erradicated, there is nothing to protect against, and thus no need for standing armies or other such dangerous elements. Until then, however, some form of State is necessary to protect the revolution, though it must be controlled by the Workers.

Capitalism sucks as it kinda assume hierarchy and “sneaks” exploitation in.

No real “disagreement,” other than I don’t actually believe Capitalism sneaks anything, it just convinces Workers the alternatives are worse.

But a authoritarian state acts a little bit as a counter force to the “core”. (While a full on authoritarian state will of course take control over the “core”) While any liberal state, enables the “core” to move more power to itself quicker. Communism is much better in regards of assuming hierarchy as it doesn’t. But an even slightly authoritarian state with communism places the “core” and the state together as a unite without a real counter force and will eventually be very authoritarian. An liberal communistic System would avoid hierarchy and by that protect itself from placing the “core” in the hands of the state, but it would live itself vulnerable by “small” actors trying to build an hierarchy as people generally like to do, and enables “small” local exploitation.

I am not sure a follow. What is an “authoritarian Communist state” and what is a “liberal Communist state?” How are they mechanically different, other than labels?

I just don’t see a way for any of them to not fail. Currently I believe that the violence of the public is the only way to reset the failing systems. That violence is just usually a little late and not just, fair or merciful. Leading to a lot of unjust pain and suffering.

Marxists and Anarchists both agree that Revolution is necessary.

I don’t see how to escape this shit.

A mass worker movement, comrade!

Please call me out on my shit take. Thanks.

Not stupid at all, in my opinion. There’s a lot of thought there, but I believe this thought could be much sharper and more pointed if you engaged with theory. Even if you disagree with much of it, by connecting your thoughts to the collective works of centuries of leftists and their findings, you can come to find agreement with other leftists and organize.

Did that answer your questions?

Cowbee,

It’s pretty clear by my wording that I was referring to when they were contemporaries, not the peak right after WWII to modern US, lol. Again, silliness.

I think you’re making statements without caring whether they’re true (just basing them on whether they feel right to you), and shifting your definitions around, and refusing to clarify what you mean or the details of what you’re advocating.

Here’s a mirror, lol. You haven’t answered my questions and constantly duck and weave.

Here, I’ll extend an olive branch. I can list several things, and you can tell me where you disagree.

Capitalism has the following flaws:

  1. Ownership of Capital by individuals results in a class conflict between Workers and Owners, resulting in a tumultuous society
  2. Production of commodities for profit rather than use results in products designed to make profits rather than fulfill uses, ie enshittification
  3. Capitalism cannot exist forever because of the Tendency for the Rate of Profit to Fall, which leads to Imperialism and eventually fascism and collapse
Cowbee,

You’re on the right track, but haven’t taken it to the logical conclusion. The Tendency for the Rate of Profit to Fall happens beause of competition, and the floor is subsistence. The less labor constitutes the overall value of commodities due to automation, the lower the profit. That’s where Imperialism comes in, and as the global south also automates, rates of profit crumble. There’s no scenario where Capitalism is maintained.

Socialism gets rid of that issue by abolishing competition and the profit motive. Rather than for exchange, goods are produced for use.

Cowbee,

This is some spicy historical revisionism, haha. Liberals sided with the fascists in Nazi Germany, not the other way around.

Mind sharing some numbers?

Cowbee, (edited )

Unions can’t fight back against competition being a thing. I think you’re confusing RoP with wages.

The Tendency for the Rate of Profit to Fall has been absent from every Socialist country.

Cowbee,

So the Social Democrats did side with the Nazis instead of leftists, got it.

Thanks for the numbers, again though the vast majority of deaths were due to mass starvation during WWII aftet Ukraine was invaded by the Nazis.

Cowbee,

Rather than joining up with the leftists, they sided with the fascists. This was after the SPD had sided with the Kaiser and had constantly made an enemy of the KPD.

By the way, you were mistaken about what happened after WWII, you may wish to read more.

Cowbee,

The SPD was the KPDs biggest enemy because the SPD betrayed the revolution, laying the groundwork for fascism in the first place. The SPD broke the line.

I agree with you, there’s a good chance I will end up in a US death camp. You already know I told you I plan on voting Biden, I just believe that unless we can overturn this system, within the next few presidencies this will happen regardless of party.

I have spent as much time as I want to spend trying to talk sense into you.

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