Thorny_Insight

@Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee

I prioritize ethics over optics even if it means facing criticism.

Sharing my honest beliefs, welcoming constructive debates, and embracing the potential for evolving viewpoints. Independent thinker navigating through conversations without allegiance to any particular side.

This profile is from a federated server and may be incomplete. Browse more on the original instance.

Thorny_Insight, (edited )

The cheapest flat pedals I can find which I then abuse for 3 years untill I buy new ones. I never quite figured out why people spend 60 euros on crankbrother pedals when I can get similar ones from Biltema that cost 15 euros and are 100 grams lighter.

Thorny_Insight,

It’s Russian. Doesn’t really matter how good it is, personally I would stay far away from it.

Thorny_Insight,

I always look at the price/kg. Makes no difference what size the packaging is, that price will always tell which one is the cheapest.

Thorny_Insight, (edited )

Mother seems more relevant when getting away from the family is what the article is all about. It’s quite neutral headline as they should be instead of loaded ones like the one you seem to be suggesting with the underlying anti-rich/-capitalist spin.

Thorny_Insight,

I’m generally the one defending Tesla in these threads but on Waymo’s defence; the remote operators aren’t actually controlling the car. Instead when faced with a challenging situation the car “calls home” for assistance basically asking a human to take a look at the situation and help it to decide what to do. This might be a car partially blocking the lane of traffic cones placed in a weird manner so the car justs asks for assurance that it’s okay to proceed. In the most difficult situations the remote operator can suggest a route for the vehicle to take but the decision on what to do is ultimately on the vehicle itself.

Thorny_Insight,

This is literally the only way we’ll ever get self-driving cars. You have to test them in real life. Simulations and tests tracks can only take you so far. Yeah it’ll probably cost the lifes of some number of people but this will be greatly outnumbered by the amount of lives saved when the technology actually starts working as intented. It’s not like human driven vehicles are exactly safe for pedestrians either.

Also, when a self-driving vehicle fails it almost always means it ends up getting stuck somewhere or blocking the road. It’s extremely rare for it to cause an accident, though that does happen aswell.

Thorny_Insight,

Humans can drive just fine without lidar aswell. Road infrastructure is designed for vision. The car not being able to see is not the issue. It’s teaching the car to understand what it sees and how to deal with it. Lidar doesn’t help you solve this issue.

Thorny_Insight,

There are currently 80+ people dying every single day just in the US alone because we don’t have self-driving cars. Not developing that technology is just as much of a choise to let people die than going forward with it. I’d argue it’s the moral thing to do. People are awful at driving. As a fan of cars I like to go sit by the freeway watching them passing by several times a week and the number of people driving 120kph while staring at their phones is mind boggling.

Not only that but virtually all of those vehicles are going to be electric as well so that also means less people dying because of air pollution. Then there’s also the fact that it’ll bring down the cost of taxies immensely as well as allowing private individuals to let their vehicle go do ride sharing for the day instead of sitting on the parking lot of their work place unused. There’s just too many upsides to it. Also it’s not like passengers getting killed by rogue self-driving vehicles is a particularly common occurance despite the technology still being at it’s infancy. This is the worst they’re ever going to be.

Thorny_Insight,

I’ll try to remember that!

Thorny_Insight, (edited )

Mercedes Drive Pilot only works on a handful of hand-picked highways is California and Nevada. It must have a car in front of it to follow. It can’t go over 40mph. It can’t navigate thru interchanges. It can’t be used in inclement weather. It doesn’t work around flashing lights. It doesn’t work on construction sites. It doesn’t work in night time. It cannot change lanes and it doesn’t work on roads without lane markings.

It’s effectively a train except train can take you to more places. Also, it must have a driver who can take over when needed. That’s level 3 self driving. Waymo is level 4.

Here’s what happens when you put Mercedes Driver Assist (Not Drive Pilot) against Tesla’s FSD. Tl;dw: It’s completely useless.

Thorny_Insight,

Like I said; there’s only so much you can test on a closed track. At some point you must start doing that in the real world. Pedestrians getting killed by experimental self-driving vehicles is not an actual issue we’re dealing with right now but more like a theoretical possibility of what could happen in the future. There are only a couple of such incidents recorded ever. That’s not a good enough reason to not continue with it.

What I mean by them now being the worst they’ll ever be is the self-driving technology itself. It’s constantly improving and the trend is towards better. The technology we have right now is the worst it’s ever going to be.

Thorny_Insight,

How could anyone know that? It just as well might.

It’s a fallacy to think we can build a perfect world where all bad things can be avoided. With all new technology comes downsides. We’re already losing 80+ a day in the US alone because we don’t have self driving cars. It’s far more likely for someone close to me to get killed by a human driver.

Thorny_Insight, (edited )

You don’t need to “jerk” the wheel. You only need to touch it gently. This is because level 2 is “hands on” system. Allegedly though even this will be going away with version 12.4 and from there on it’s only the cabin camera that’s monitoring you. It’s debateable wether this is a good thing or not. Makes it easier to abuse the system.

No one is making any claims about how fast Mercedes Drive Pilot should go. Your accusation is disingenuous. I’m simply stating that it can’t go over 40mph. That’s pretty slow for a vehicle that can drive autonomously only on highways.

Thorny_Insight,

My truck is -07 and it’s the newest vehicle I’ve ever had. I’m not even especially interested about newer models because they just get more difficult to fix yourself and come with bunch of features that I prefer to live without. I prefer a work horse over fashion accessories tho mine is quite nice to look at aswell. Especially from distance.

Thorny_Insight,

This same “think about the children” -argument is used when advocating for stuff such as banning encryption aswell which in it’s current form enables the easy spreading of such content AI generated or not. I do not agree with that. It’s a slippery slope despite the good intentions. We’re not criminalizing fictional depictions of violence either. I don’t see how this is any different. I don’t care what people are jerking off to as long as they’re not hurting anyone and I don’t think you should either. Banning it haven’t gotten rid of actual CSAM content and it sure wont work for AI generated stuff either. No one benefits from the police running after people creating/sharing fictional content.

Thorny_Insight,

Mercedes Drive Pilot is hilariously limited system. It for example needs a car in front of it that it can follow or else it wont work. It also only works on limited number of hand-picked highways in California and Nevada.

There’s a video on YouTube comparing FSD to Mercedes’ equivalent driver assistant software (not the level 3 one) and it’s not even a competition. The Mercedes system is completely unusable.

Thorny_Insight,

Did you watch the video? It was insanely foggy there. It makes no difference how big the obstacle is if you can’t even see 50 meters ahead of you.

Also, the car did see the train. It just clearly didn’t understand what it was and how to react to it. That’s why the car has a driver who does. I’m sure this exact edge case will be added to the training data so that this doesn’t happen again. Stuff like this takes ages to iron out. FSD is not a finished product. It’s under development and receives constant updates and keeps improving. That’s why it’s classified as level 2 and not level 5.

Yes. It’s unreasonable to expect brand new technology to be able to deal with every possible scenario that a car can encounter on traffic. Just because the concept of train in a fog makes sense to you as a human doesn’t mean it’s obvious to the AI.

Thorny_Insight, (edited )

This fully autonomous argument is beat to death already. Every single Tesla owner knows you’re supposed to pay attention and be ready to take over when necessary. That is such a strawman argument. Nobody blames the car when automatic braking fails to see the car infront of it. It might save your ass if you’re distracted but ultimately it’s always the driver whose responsible. FSD is no different.

Thorny_Insight,

You can’t see 50 meters ahead in that fog.

Thorny_Insight,

I agree. In fact I’m surprised the vehicle even lets you enable FSD in that kind of poor visibility and based on the video it seemed to be going quite fast aswell.

Thorny_Insight,

Full Self Driving (Beta), nowdays Full Self Driving (Supervised)

Which of those names invokes trust to put your life in it’s hands?

It’s not in fine print. It’s told to you when you purchase FSD and the vehicle reminds you of it every single time you enable the system. If you’re looking at your phone it starts nagging at you eventually locking you out of the feature. Why would they put driver monitoring system in place if you’re supposed to put blind faith into it?

That is such an old, beat up strawman argument. Yes, Elon has said it would be fully autonomous in a year or so which turned out to be a lie but nobody today is claiming it can be blindly trusted. That simply just is not true.

Thorny_Insight,

ESP is not idiot proof either just to name one such feature that’s been available for decades. It assists the driver but doesn’t replace them.

Hell, cars themselves are not idiot proof.

Thorny_Insight,

Yeah there’s a wide range of ways to map the surroundings. Road infrastructure, however is designed for vision so I don’t see why just cameras wouldn’t be sufficient. The issue here is not that it’s didn’t see the train - it’s on video, after all - but that it didn’t know how to react to it.

Thorny_Insight,

It’s misleading advertising for sure. At no point have I claimed otherwise.

The meaning of what qualifies as “full self driving” is still up for debate however. There are worse human drivers on the roads than what the current version of FSD is capable of. It’s by no means flawless but it’s much better than most people even realize. It’s a vehicle capable of self driving even if not fully.

Thorny_Insight,

Sure. Make then change the name to something different. I’m fine with that.

Though I still don’t know what most people actually mean by full self driving and how it’s different from what FSD can do right now.

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