Almost no one out there is supporting Hamas, and if you unilaterally support Israel, you are anti-Palestinian.
You are willfully ignoring my last comment to give your strawman some hay.
The fact that you think fighting Hamas includes indiscriminately bombing civilians shows you are in support of the ongoing genocide of an ethnic
minority Strawman, I never said that the IDF should or is bombing indiscriminately. That is YOUR belief and you’re forcing it upon my words.
And to call yourself a minority to try to gain sympathy is pathetic at best.
Yet another misunderstanding. I didn’t say that to garner sympathy. I said that to make the point that this situation is just a classical case of the Majority’s tyranny. Granted, @risk suffered it worse, but the situation is just two sides of the same coin except I hang around in Lemmy and he hangs around in News websites.
The KKK is also a minority, so by your logic, we should all try to sympathize with their plight. Oh look, it’s your favorite rhetorical instrument. A strawman.
Well, enforcing that will send Israel into a political turmoil since it was on the verge of a civil war before this war started. Also, interesting to note that 2008 was one of those rare times when Benjamin Netanyahu wasn’t at power, but that doesn’t help the situation right now.
I also agree that you can’t remove Hamas with a sledgehammer. You can’t kill ideology with bullets. Israel isn’t claiming to be doing that right now. They declared they’re doing 2 things:
Returning the kidnapped Israelis home.
Disabling Hamas’ ability to strike.
Can’t ignore the last fact here though, that Benjamin Netanyahu wants a military regime once the war is over. You’d have to insane to support that.
Who says I don’t? Israel should definitely stop the settlements, push to join the Palestinians into the abrahamic accords, do what they can to bring actual peace instead of placating their religious fanatics for an easy vote.
I said I support Israel. In which I meant that I support Israel’s fight against Hamas. Yes, that entails hurting civilians. Yes, that is a sad state of affairs.
I don’t think criticizing Israel is wrong here, nor do I wish for more civilian bloodshed. I do, however, see the end of the war with Hamas no longer being able to actively threat Israel a legitimate goal.
I agree with your statement and would retract the use of the word “persecuted”, as it is a matter of severity.
The inflicting of suffering, harassment, imprisonment, internment, fear or pain are all factors that may establish persecution, but not all suffering will necessarily establish persecution. The threshold of severity has been a source of much debate. Source: Wikipedia
Being ostracized in a Lemmy debate clearly isn’t persecution. It is a lack of pluralism or tolerance. Something you can criticize, but definitely isn’t something anyone owes anyone else here. It’s more of a matter of civility.
I agree with you on most of what you said here. Things are fucked. Better solutions should be sought, especially diplomatic ones - if possible. Until such a solution presents itself, stopping Israel sounds like a bad idea.
Yes Hamas is a terror organization, no, that does not allow you to behave like a terror organization when fighting them.
I agree.
If you have read the article this is not about innocents which where at the wrong place a the wrong time. This article is about deliberate destruction of civilian buildings without giving any justification besides ‘There are some things that we see that you don’t see.’ in some cases evacuation was allowed, in some cases no time for evacuation was given. There is in my eyes no justification for this.
I respect your sentiment that you can’t justify killing innocents no matter the cause. I also respectfully disagree, and I accept “There are somethings that we see that you don’t” as tactical reasoning. I don’t do this with a happy heart, or a sense of conviction. It is a sad to thing to recognize.
You don’t let your enemy know how you know where to hit, because that would expose your intelligence - be it collaborators, equipment or units - to your enemy.
I do agree though, that it leaves you with doubt that the IDF isn’t just murdering people. However I don’t think they’d go to such trouble to sometimes notify and sometimes not. It doesn’t make sense.
I never said that Israel should stand idle. So don’t push that opinion on me.
I apologize for putting words in your mouth or assuming your opinion for you. I was wrong here to a fault.
What could be done? Attack military targets only, give civilians time to evacuate. (Yes a civilian home becomes a military target if it is used as weapons stash/factory, but there was no indication at all in the cases listed in the article),
Hamas doesn’t follow the Geneva Convention. It’s fighters don’t dress as a military, they dress in civilian clothing. Maybe not as a rule, but there’s definitely footage that Hamas itself released with their fighters wearing Jeans and T Shirts.
Regarding allowing civilians to evacuate - This is again the issue of tactical reasoning from before.
support the more moderate Fatah in regaining control. Support new democratic elections.
I’ll add - remove the Likud and Netanyahu from power, add the Palestinians into the Abraham accords. All worthy things to do AFTER the war, and should be done. No doubt.
Destroying peoples homes and basic utilities will only ensure that hate on Israel grows and support for Hamas remains steady.
I whole-heatedly agree with you on this one. Both sides are losing right now. I think this war will mean that Fatah will disappear and the west bank will become Hamas too. And then the situation is twice as fucked.
I do agree that any cycle of violence further radicalizes the Palestinians. It also marginalized the Israeli left since Yitzhak Rabin was murdered. Both sides keep pushing, like a pendulum, ever since the negotiations with Yasser Arafat failed due to the right of return.
Are the Israelis solely to blame for this? Maybe. Does it provide a solution for the here and now? No.
That’s a false dichotomy, and one alternative approach was already provided in the comment you originally replied to.
The original comment says integration, that is a one state solution for the two people. That means that the right of return takes place. If that happens, Israel is no longer a Jewish state.
How can you integrate with a political movement that just murdered and kidnapped people your people? Who vowed to destroy your nation in very colorful ways? How do you solve the here and now?
I agree that Israel shares plenty of blame, primarily the government and the right wing. Ok. How does that neutralize the threat of Hamas now? How does that stop the rockets? How can the IDF pull back and not get another surprise attack in three weeks?
Never said it was unswerving, but I am hated for my opinion here. It is expected. How dare I justify murder, right?
Hamas is a terror organization. Hamas confirmed it will repeat it’s actions over and over until every jew is dead or driven from Israel. Hamas is still firing rockets at Israel and fighting the IDF. Hamas cynically uses the Geneva convention to shield itself as it commits war crimes.
It is true that the actions of the military kill innocents. I think it would’ve happened even without Hamas using them as human shields.
But should Israel simply stand idle as it’s citizens are slaughtered and kidnapped? If so, then why?